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Good thing Servants have blanket concept manip so even manipulating their "darkness" won't matter
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Servant Gilgamesh (Fate) vs Ichibē Hyōsube (Bleach)
- Thread starter KarematsuShinjuu
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Gilgamesh has durability negating weapons.
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- #123
Noble phantasms come from the legends of the heroes they belong to, and Gilgamesh is not the part of their legend. Unless all heroes have A rank magic resistance, most of GoB's arsenal is useless.
And if a character has metal manipulation then they can certainly control the swords of characters that don't have an intimate link with their swords. Which is exactly how Gilgamesh does it. Even Gilgamesh doesn't have conceptual manipulation resist without his armor, the phantasms have their own values on it.
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- #124
Speaking of Durability negation, why would any phantasm apart from any phantasm with AP higher than 6-B even work on Ichibē considering Bleach characters are unaffected by weapons and haxx that are in a lesser tier than them?
PrinceofPein
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Literally all of Gil match is how long Gil willl take before he slaps out Ea
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If Gilgamesh doesn't have his armor on Ichibe exists and murders Gil. Also using Gilgamesh's weapons pisses him off to no end. Against someone who has ALREADY ticked him off he would happily bust out Ea, which by the way surrounds him with Low 1-C space-time hax winds, and murder Ichibe for daring to try to use Gilgamesh's treasures on him. Which wouldn't work anyway because Gil can bring his shit back to his Vault at will
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Wow, this become more of a mess than I thought.
First, servants resist concept manip with Magic Resistance Rank B and higher, this is accepted in the servant physiology page. The concept manip also is accepted as type 1, in the moment of the crt type 2 wasn't merged with type 1 but currently the change is already done so it's accepted as type 1.
Second, True Magic it's different from magecraft, yes, however, it is noted many times that True Magic wasn't something impressive in the Age of Gods, it's say that it was something much more common than the current era, that's the reason of why the mages, and beings in general, from the Age of Gods have disdain to current magecraft. Magic Resistance Rank A resist even the things from Medea who was famous as witch even in the Age of Gods (and who also had concept manip and darkness manip). Also, Rank D resist time manip as said in the servant physiology page, the Second Magic is just a form of time manip much more powerful Zelrecht quite literally is tier 1 and the Second Magic let him see the paralel worlds as pages in a book.
Third, Magic Resistance resist paranormal in general instead of just magic, this is showed by how they resist the powers of Mystic Eyes even though they are genetic mutations, the scan of time manip resistance even come from resist Mystic Eyes that freeze time.
About names I feel like there was someone with a power specifically related with names in fate but I can remember it, but what I can remember is that there exist a concept manip tier 1-A with words, the Unified Language, which obviously is much above what Ichibe can do so they are incomparable.
So with Magic Resistance Rank A the haxs of Ichibe don't affect him, so his win con is trying to kill Gil with a physical attack with his higher AP. Gil passevely know how powerful it's Ichibe and the difference in their AP, so he can either use instantly Enuma Elish (which is space-time hax even when not at full power, that's the reason of why it's specially effective against Reality Marbles), or he use treasures from GoB with precaution (in other words, use durability negation weapons with space hax, curse hax, poison hax or whatever make the durability difference useless). They are 500 meters apart so I can see more times than not Gil landing a weapon with durability negation or charging and firing Enuma Elish, so I vote Gil.
First, servants resist concept manip with Magic Resistance Rank B and higher, this is accepted in the servant physiology page. The concept manip also is accepted as type 1, in the moment of the crt type 2 wasn't merged with type 1 but currently the change is already done so it's accepted as type 1.
Second, True Magic it's different from magecraft, yes, however, it is noted many times that True Magic wasn't something impressive in the Age of Gods, it's say that it was something much more common than the current era, that's the reason of why the mages, and beings in general, from the Age of Gods have disdain to current magecraft. Magic Resistance Rank A resist even the things from Medea who was famous as witch even in the Age of Gods (and who also had concept manip and darkness manip). Also, Rank D resist time manip as said in the servant physiology page, the Second Magic is just a form of time manip much more powerful Zelrecht quite literally is tier 1 and the Second Magic let him see the paralel worlds as pages in a book.
Third, Magic Resistance resist paranormal in general instead of just magic, this is showed by how they resist the powers of Mystic Eyes even though they are genetic mutations, the scan of time manip resistance even come from resist Mystic Eyes that freeze time.
About names I feel like there was someone with a power specifically related with names in fate but I can remember it, but what I can remember is that there exist a concept manip tier 1-A with words, the Unified Language, which obviously is much above what Ichibe can do so they are incomparable.
So with Magic Resistance Rank A the haxs of Ichibe don't affect him, so his win con is trying to kill Gil with a physical attack with his higher AP. Gil passevely know how powerful it's Ichibe and the difference in their AP, so he can either use instantly Enuma Elish (which is space-time hax even when not at full power, that's the reason of why it's specially effective against Reality Marbles), or he use treasures from GoB with precaution (in other words, use durability negation weapons with space hax, curse hax, poison hax or whatever make the durability difference useless). They are 500 meters apart so I can see more times than not Gil landing a weapon with durability negation or charging and firing Enuma Elish, so I vote Gil.
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- #129
And Ichibē will sit around doing nothing? If Ichibē sees that his armor can negate Ichimonji (which he can without actually trying it) he's straight away going in for the kill, and armor (which has 6-B durability) isn't going to protect Ichibe who has high 6-A AP. Ea needs time to go 1-C, Ichibē doesn't need time to go high 6-A.
He doesn't use them against Gil he makes them useless. Small correction.
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That requires getting close enough. And Ea doesn't need time for Low 1-C Space and Time hax to come out, it just happens when Gil starts charging it.
If he's using them AT ALL Gil takes it as even more of an insult then just randomly attacking him, hence he gets pissed off and obliterates this mongrel from his earth with Ea.
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- #131
This isn't caster Gil who's actually wiser, this is Archer Gil. He's arrogant and despite having faced opponents that are beyond him he doesn't instantly pull out Ea and go Enuma Elish. Ichibē also has ways to know that Ichimonji won't work on his armor, he will instantly go for the kill (he's like 1,000,000 years old and noted even by the god tiers of the verse to be exceptionally wise, so in character). And Ea takes time to charge, but Ichibē is always high 6-A.
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- #133
That requires using GoB first, and Ichibē has plenty of time to close the gap. These are relativistic characters and even with speed equalised 500 metres is nothing compared to Ea consistently requiring a second to charge. If they're equalised to human speeds Ichibē instantly wins by BFR to 4000 km btw.
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The moment Ea spins, its hax begins. Enuma Elish takes time to charge, which is at most the same time Saber needs to activate Excalibur.
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Gil for Expectro's reasons
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Gilgamesh has independent manifestation. It's really, really, REALLY hard to move him anywhere with BFR.
What stops Gilgamesh from doing the age old art of just... dodging, or throwing weapons with GoB because speed is equal and Gilgamesh has more then enough time to begin throwing weapons?
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- #137
I need proof for 1-C space-time and Soul haxx coming out instantly, because Gil has faced Saber, Shirou and Rider (and one of these isn't a servant) and they didn't instantly melt when he activated Ea. If even humans in nasuverse can resist 1-C haxx then its just an outlier.
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Matches aren't places for CRTs, if you disagree with something you are free to make a CRT.
Also what makes you think Rin and Shirou are normal humans to begin with.
If they resist something its a feat for them not an anti feat for Gil.
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Saber is during Fate route when the space-time hax didn't exist, Gilgamesh was specifically trying to bust the reality marble against Rider. And the winds never hit Shiro provably.
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- #140
It's physical BFR, not anything using teleports. Does Gilgamesh have pushing resistance as well? The point is if both are equalised to human speeds he just has to walk 4000 km back human speeds, which is pretty much BFR. Since they're equalised to relativistic speeds, 500 m is literally nothing, which means Ichibē can come close and AP stomp him.
Ichibē is much more skilled
Ichimonji.
If that's his first move (let's be real it is) Icbibē has more than enough leeway to come close and AP stomp. He can easily slap away the weapons for an opportunity to slip in btw.
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Gil is arrogant, yes, he isn't stupid, if his passive future sight tell him that a big dude 1,000,000 years old with a apparence that remember budhist, which in fate are mostly broken (at least the ones I remember, Buddha and Kiara are tier 1, Nagatora is the avatar of a tier 1 being, Hōzōin is skilled to the point of supposedly able to reach with his spear Buddhas), he probably would be more inclined to believe it, this isn't like the time he saw himself a teenage girl quite literally crazy kill him and he decided not believe in a future like that.
From all the characters from fate your choose from a first match with them was quite bad, it's never a good idea use a character so broken in your first approach to the verse, next time use character less haxed that in fate are many of them, not everything have to be gods tier.
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Ichimonji cannot be everywhere, considering Gil's top output is literal oceans of weapons. Even tens of thousands is more then enough to overwhelm Ichibe.
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Yeah Gil FRA
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Gil FRA then
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- #145
I bring up Rin as a proof that Gilgamesh doesn't instantly go Enuma Elish in face of a higher threat.
Shiro is susceptible to magecraft though (D rank in a stronger form), which is why Ea charging and not doing anything to Shiro makes Ea just charging not 1-C. Where is Ea charging even stated as 1-C, the wiki states it as 6-B.
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How about Xuanzang?
As for the matches idea, aren't the most of Bleach chars large island level? None of them have a island level of AP
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- #147
You see if I knew about the rank A magic resistance stuff literally negating everything apparently, I wouldn't have even considered thinking about something as nonsensical as fate.
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Uh.... Rin or Sakura? Because Rin wasn't a threat to Gil.
Ea just charging doesn't have a tier, it surrounds Gilgamesh with the space time hax. And that definitely doesn't go however many meters.
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- #149
Most bleach characters are actually at 6-C to 6-A right now, but who cares, imma do another Gojo vs Genjutsu user thread now.
Or maybe some interversal stuff so stupid stuff like this which should be verse equalised properly but isn't for some reason doesn't screw my mind again. The amount of research I did on nasuverse today is something I don't want to repeat ever again.
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- #150
Misspoke, I meant Sakura. When was Rin caught up in Ea?
These same winds were dispelled by Excalibur which is quite decidedly not 1-C haxx.
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Why is argumented BFR when he resist it? Servants with enough Luck resist things like causality manip (like the one of Cu) and BFR (like the Gate of Sky of Scáthach)
There are various characters 6-C in Bleach from what I see so there are options.
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Why don’t make it urself lol?
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If you are so focused with Excalibur let's remeber that Excalibur is actually a divine construct like EA (the sword of Gil), that have various own haxs (Both the sword and the energy beam because it also have the natural Magic Resistance Rank A from Artoria because it's a charge of the dragon energy that come from the dragon blood of Artoria) and that it even have a mechanic of defend the world against treats.
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Good to know, imma check it now
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Seriously, I've already told you that Ea was nothing but a big ass attack in the fate route.
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- #158
Does he resist being pushed? BFR is battlefield removal and can be anything that removes Gil from the battlefield. What I was saying that if both were equalised to human speeds, where 500m means something as much as some posters were making it out to be, then ichibe has a move where he pushes you, physically, 1000 ri. Walking or running that distance back human speed would take so much time that it'd be BFR. Thus they would obviously be equalised to relativistic (Ichibē) or massively hypersonic (Gil) so 500 m starting distance doesn't matter anyways.
Yes, BFR doesn't matter outside of a hypothetical, the reason it was brought up was to disprove something else.
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- #159
You see a guy can get confused when inconsistencies happen. I honestly don't remember any fight outside of Saber that didn't end instantly so yeah. Maybe Rider resisting it is proof that it doesn't happen instantly? Anyhow why am I proving it doesn't happens instantly when someone should also be proving it does?
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Gate of Sky it's a big gate that suck everything to enter the gate and send it to a realm of pure death. If instead was a magical BFR then would be resisted by Magic Resistance since a Rank B already null the things aroung one.
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