Servant Gilgamesh (Fate) vs Ichibē Hyōsube (Bleach)

[KarematsuShinjuu]

What about this says AP to you?.

And I'm saying that's wrong. Saber was matching Gilgamesh with Excalibur when Gilgamesh had Ea out and was attacking with it. Excalibur isn't 6 dimensional because there are plenty of antifeats refuting that, and since a mere 3-D Excalibur was going toe to toe with Ea, it isn't always 6D either. (I'm not saying it isn't 6D, it is, I'm saying it isn't 6D all the time.)

SNI tells Gilgamesh he can get AP stomped, he takes out Ea, but there's no instance of him busting out 1-C attacks immediately. He uses the Ea he used against Saber because that is exactly what he does in character, and then gets his armor nagged and then stomped. He doesn't pull out the 6 dimensional 1-C Ea immediately ever.

 

[DaReaperMan]

well other people seem to think that Ichibei having the ap to one shot would mean hes pulling Ea, no trashtalk, no danmaku like the usual? hes ap is enough to one shot me? im pulling Ea.

looks at Fate: Heaven's Feel

Nope. It depends on titles and most notable abilities on whether Gil is pulling his pixie stick of 6-D space-time hax death thst can't be stopped

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

well other people seem to think that Ichibei having the ap to one shot would mean hes pulling Ea, no trashtalk, no danmaku like the usual? hes ap is enough to one shot me? im pulling Ea.

fun

Not just the Ea he pulled against Saber which was matching Excalibur, but true smurf Ea. Despite there being no instance of such an occasion.

very fun

 

[DaReaperMan]

And I'm saying that's wrong. Saber was matching Gilgamesh with Excalibur when Gilgamesh had Ea out and was attacking with it. Excalibur isn't 6 dimensional because there are plenty of antifeats refuting that, and since a mere 3-D Excalibur was going toe to toe with Ea, it isn't always 6D either. (I'm not saying it isn't 6D, it is, I'm saying it isn't 6D all the time.)

SNI tells Gilgamesh he can get AP stomped, he takes out Ea, but there's no instance of him busting out 1-C attacks immediately. He uses the Ea he used against Saber because that is exactly what he does in character, and then gets his armor nagged and then stomped. He doesn't pull out the 6 dimensional 1-C Ea immediately ever.

Yes, because you are arguing about ATTACK POTENCY. Not ******* hax. Get this through your skull so dense that it's considered a galactic singularity.

Yeah, I agree with that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yes, I'm frustrated that your calling the hax on an attack 3-D just because the attack itself is 3-D in AP.

 

[Loyd]

and then gets his armor nagged and then stomped

Its A rank magic resist none of Ichibei hax will work on him, hes only wincon is close range with higher ap.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, you need da layers to effect Gil through his magic resistance with armor on. Without Ichibe exists and Gil is paste.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Yes, I'm frustrated that your calling the hax on an attack 3-D just because the attack itself is 3-D in AP.

This is ridiculous. There have been multiple people showing resistance to the 6 dimensional haxx (Saber, Shirou) which are active all the time apparently. Are all these people also 6D in haxx resistance?

And yes I'm frustrated because this apparent haxx doesn't work when Gil's not using full power Ea

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Also, magic resistance according to verse equalisation applies as such:

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses.

Thus magic resistance would work against any attacks that have reiatsu.
Ichibē's powers are quite specifically not reiatsu based as shown in chapter 608, page 3 (linked above). This is unusual for Bleach and means it cannot be linked to magecraft. Magic resistance has no bearing here.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is ridiculous. There have been multiple people showing resistance to the 6 dimensional haxx (Saber, Shirou) which are active all the time apparently. Are all these people also 6D in haxx resistance?

mentioning the original F/SN fate route when Ea didn't even have its hax besides just being a big ****** attack back then

Yeah, no.

Yes and no, while I'm pretty sure literally everyone in Fate has a smurf resistance somewhere.

 

[Loyd]

lol you'll get use to it, i was also blown away by nasuverse when i first joined vsbw, and im a long time fan fate stay night was my childhood.

 

[Aernasilver]

Unless a CRT is made to debunk 6D hax (Good luck), it doesn't matter what you say here.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Yeah, no.

Yes and no, while I'm pretty sure literally everyone in Fate has a smurf resistance somewhere.

Okay even incomete Ea works I can't argue anymore tbh

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also, magic resistance according to verse equalisation applies as such:

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses.

Thus magic resistance would work against any attacks that have reiatsu.
Ichibē's powers are quite specifically not reiatsu based as shown in chapter 608, page 3 (linked above). This is unusual for Bleach and means it cannot be linked to magecraft. Magic resistance has no bearing here.

Magecraft is quite literally anything supernatural. Welcome to fate, it's ****** stupid in hax and other shit at the best of times.

 

[Loyd]

Thus magic resistance would work against any attacks that have reiatsu.
Ichibē's powers are quite specifically not reiatsu based as shown in chapter 608, page 3 (linked above). This is unusual for Bleach and means it cannot be linked to magecraft. Magic resistance has no bearing here.

magic resistance of fate in particular is resistances against Paranormal in general, while servants are immune against modern or things that don't have enough mystery, nasu is a lowkey power scaling genious.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Okay even incomete Ea works I can't argue anymore tbh

You can argue that Ichibe manages to get close enough to land a hit(with the skill advantage he surely has, Gil can keep up with Arturia, but that's about all he has skill-wise outside of his caster form)

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Still Gil only pulls out Ea against servants, and servants he thinks are worthy.

He didn't pull out Ea against Shiro or Sakura despite whatever SNI told him, especially when Sakura didn't just win because of PIS.

SNI has in character no bearing on Ea. He pulled it out against Iskander who he should've been able to beat without, and Saber, against who he was just enjoying and not actually using Ea's full power.

For all intents and purposes Ichibē is a human to Gilgamesh (as he isn't a servant) so he won't be pulling Ea.

 

[Loyd]

Magecraft is quite literally anything supernatural. Welcome to fate, it's ****** stupid in hax and other shit at the best of times.

still fodder compared to warhammer Aethyr manip lets fkn go

 

[DaReaperMan]

Still Gil only pulls out Ea against servants, and servants he thinks are worthy.

He didn't pull out Ea against Shiro or Sakura despite whatever SNI told him, especially when Sakura didn't just win because of PIS.

SNI has in character no bearing on Ea. He pulled it out against Iskander who he should've been able to beat without, and Saber, against who he was just enjoying and not actually using Ea's full power.

For all intents and purposes Ichibē is a human to Gilgamesh (as he isn't a servant) so he won't be pulling Ea.

Shiro has like twenty different reasons why it isn't Gil's normal In-character(and even then he still pulled Ea near the end). Sakura was just a girl to Gil so he didn't believe SNI before it was way too ****** late.

That is actually a misconception, Gilgamesh will pull Ea in self-preservation or against people he thinks are worthy without exception, they don't have to be servants, just worthy enough/push Gil enough.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Isn't the rank of magecraft itself dependent on age? Like in nasuverse older magic is more powerful?

 

[DaReaperMan]

And even then Gilgamesh is more willing to just blast a mongrel who randomly attacks him with his full power, as seen with the lost belt I can't for the life of me remember the name of

Isn't the rank of magecraft itself dependent on age? Like in nasuverse older magic is more powerful?

Age and how many verses(layers) it has, though with age everything in fate becomes more powerful.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Age and how many verses(layers) it has, though with age everything in fate becomes more powerful.

Ichibē's "magecraft" should be more than a million years old then, so why won't it be above rank A magic resist?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ichibē's "magecraft" should be more than a million years old then, so why won't it be above rank A magic resist?

But it ain't layered, that's the issue

 

[Loyd]

the points are pretty clear cut tbh
ichibei starts with spirit slap doesnt work against gil armor, if he goes for Ea, Ichibei noticing he can't understand its name and using anything else would be to slow against the blast shunpo forward and goes for cqc hes most likely wincon and usually the way he starts a fight before applying conceptual hax.

If gil starts with danmaku this is where it gets really iffy imo majority of the stuff spammed doesn't have the ap to do anything, conceptual hax weapons idk if they'd be type 1, but he can knock then aside with his spirit appendiges maybe
possibly read thr names and evade the fatal ones? feels like a reach even for me and try to go close range again which he takes.

he unfortunately doesn't have to much screentime buts hes atleast over 1 million years old and yhwach respects his wisdom and knowledge, with cosmic awareness observing the different realms for god knows how long, he knows/named everything concieved in soul society and is considered a greater threat by yhwach then yamamoto who stated in the novel still above>TYBW captains.

again it can go either way if he tries to tank some hax stuff it could still be fatal.

ill slightly minutely vote ichibei not because of bias or anything.

 

[DaReaperMan]

All concept manip in Nasuverse is type 1. And Gil's concept weapons are mostly just a fancy dura neg.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

But it ain't layered, that's the issue

As you can tell, I'm not exactly an expert in Fate lore. What does layered imply here?

 

[DaReaperMan]

As you can tell, I'm not exactly an expert in Fate lore. What does layered imply here?

Essentially layers of hax, if someone has 5 layers in a single hax someone with only two layers wouldn't be able to do anything bar their hax being higher-D

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Considering Magic in nasuverse is essentially actualisation of events impossible to reproduce naturally in any form, and space-time manipulation is under this umbrella term, plus magic resistance is essentially magecraft resistance and not true magic resistance, does Futen Taisatsu Ryo, which is a construct formed after stealing the darkness of a 100 nights (seems like Magic to me) and removes all darkness from the target till nothing remains, not even their soul. Considering this is not just "paranormal" but "Magical" within verse equalisation, (this is how this wiki defines magic: "Magic" can be differentiated from "Magecraft" in that the consequences of its use are ostensibly "impossible" or "miraculous.") Within the confines of nasuverse such stuff isn't magecraft, it's magic, and his armour doesn't grant immunity to Magic, does it?


Bleachverse has other stuff which nasuverse says is Magic too, like dimension travel, which this wiki states is Second Magic, or materialisation of the Soul, which is Fourth Magic.

 

[Loyd]

i don't think it works that way and honestly i dont care enough to revise over it myself, but if you made a crt that people agreed worked like that and not this layered crap now you'd truly be pulling off some miracle/true magic irl.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah, sadly this match is seems to be invalid now

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Also if the MR is already confusing, then the Authority make it worse

 

[Loyd]

Yeah, sadly this match is seems to be invalid now

why is it invalid? ichibei has a wincon

the points are pretty clear cut tbh
ichibei starts with spirit slap doesnt work against gil armor, if he goes for Ea, Ichibei noticing he can't understand its name and using anything else would be to slow against the blast shunpo forward and goes for cqc hes most likely wincon and usually the way he starts a fight before applying conceptual hax.

If gil starts with danmaku this is where it gets really iffy imo majority of the stuff spammed doesn't have the ap to do anything, conceptual/hax weapons he can knock then aside with his spirit appendiges maybe
possibly read thr names and evade the fatal ones? feels like a reach even for me and try to go close range again which he takes.

he unfortunately doesn't have to much screentime buts hes atleast over 1 million years old and yhwach respects his wisdom and knowledge, with cosmic awareness observing the different realms for god knows how long, he knows/named everything concieved in soul society and is considered a greater threat by yhwach then yamamoto who stated in the novel still above>TYBW captains.

again it can go either way if he tries to tank some hax stuff it could still be fatal.

ill slightly minutely vote ichibei not because of bias or anything.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

i don't think it works that way and honestly i dont care enough to revise over it myself, but if you made a crt that people agreed worked like that and not this layered crap now you'd truly be pulling off some miracle/true magic irl.

Worth a try haha
Anyhow I think that unless Gil pulls out Ea Ichibē is superior. And I checked his profile and he doesn't have resistance to darkness manipulation (since light manipulation resistance is listed this doesn't seem to be an oversight) Futen Daisatsu Ryo might also work. Plus since Ichibē can use BFR and Gil can't travel dimensions, that is also a possibility.

Ichibē might be able to take Gil out as his armor got pierced by 6-B attacks and he's high 6-A. Icbibē will also proceed to finish the battle quickly (unlike Gilgamesh's own character who always waits for the opponent to reveal their cards) because he can see true names and the nature of something and thus see his armor can resist his shikai.

These are my reasons I guess.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Loyd nvm about what i said lel

@KarematsuShinjuu I need to tell that you can't vote as you are the OP/Creator of the match

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

@Loyd nvm about what i said lel

@KarematsuShinjuu I need to tell that you can't vote as you are the OP/Creator of the match

Sorry I was editing my comment with further information, I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Loyd]

Anyhow I think that unless Gil pulls out Ea Ichibē is superior

its a problem if gil was moody or took ichibei serious and ramped up his spam with hax weapons, the quantity of spam is absurd

And I checked his profile and he doesn't have resistance to darkness manipulation

Futen Daisatsu Ryo

these seem pretty paranormal to me which get negged by layers of resistance.

BFR and Gil can't travel dimensions

thats if he slays him/hits him with hilt iirc i don't think its working either

 

[John985]

Bleachverse has other stuff which nasuverse says is Magic too, like dimension travel, which this wiki states is Second Magic, or materialisation of the Soul, which is Fourth Magic.

4th Magic havent appear yet in any Nasu works. Your talking about 3rd Magic.

And about the soul.

The soul.
It is not the law of the physical world, but something of the higher order, the record of all the bodies within the concept of the astral world.

Memories, mind, and Magic Circuit are actually in the soul.
So the body's only a terminal to move around, and the command structure is invincible in that world.

Plus since Ichibē can use BFR and Gil can't travel dimensions, that is also a possibility.

And BFR huh, another possible addition of resistance in servant physiology base on Medea BFR pulling people out of the 3rd dimension.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@John985 Speaking of that, you can make the CRT about the additions for MR, as @CrimsonStarFallen apologised for slowled the CRT he want to make for

Also remind me, does the resistances of MR including gravity manipulation?

 

[Loyd]

someone plz suggest a random hax and a informed nasu fan plz say no they don't resist it.

 

[John985]

Hmmmm, from what I know, gravity manip show up only when Rin use it on Heracles. And it is possible to add it in resistance base on the statement on Magic Resistance A where no Modern Magus can touch them.

Yeah I know he's busy playing DI......
I think he only have 1 route left?