See, we told you we were working on it! (Naruto Revision Part 1: Scaling)

[LordTracer]

Jiraiya started following the movements of the Akatsuki because he had been following Orochimaru. If Oro became good sooner, Jiraiya might not have started following the Akatsuki - and ultimately going to Amegakure and facing Pain - in the first place. Or maybe Orochimaru would’ve simply been able to help Jiraiya escape with his life.

Like I said, it’s far too vague.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

The way she says sooner implies he would’ve turned bad in the first place, so he would have still been following the akatsuki, don’t you think after what happened in the first half of part 2 he wouldn’t?

 

[LordTracer]

The way she says sooner implies he would’ve turned bad in the first place, so he would have still been following the akatsuki, don’t you think after what happened in the first half of part 2 he wouldn’t?

Okay, but how early does Orochimaru turn good? Is it a couple of years after? Is it a few days after? We don’t know, because her statement is so extremely vague. We can’t use it as anything concrete.

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah yall are reaching. This doesn't mean that they scale to Pain

 

[KingTempest]

Ok so this is why the Sannin are fodder I'm assuming.

I've read these fights several times so here goes.

Spoiler

Jiraiya​

Jiraiya initially wasn't even trying to kill anybody. He went to go gather intel and he was talking to Konan. When he met Nagato again he tried to have conversation. Even when half dead he wanted to go confirm if the dudes he were fighting were the real ones. WHILE HE'S DYING he's thinking about getting info out.
Whole time, they wanted to kill Jiraiya.

• Pain orders Konan to kill Jiraiya.
• Pain tells her to eliminate him.
• Konan says she will kill Jiraiya.
• Nagato says that Jiraiya is about to die.
• They kill Jiraiya.

Against Jiraiya they completely countered him. He states that they know his weaknesses.

• They could wash away his toad oil.
• They could absorb his jutsu. Again.
• The Path that he incapacitated prior can block his Taijutsu while off guard.
• He states that his ninjutsu being nullified will lead to him being killed.
• He says Taijutsu doesn't work and that his ninjutsu will be absorbed.
• Then when he's perfectly fine, they attack him off guard and rips his arm off.

The one minute they confirm that they don't know something about Jiraiya, the Jutsu kills three of them.
While he's injured, he kills one of them.

And his props?

• Obito says that Jiraiya must have lived up to his reputation and implied that Pain was wounded via the "you seem to be struggling" comment.
• Then his famous "he probably would've won if he had prior knowledge" statement.
• Black Zetsu justifies it by saying that it was Jiraiya that they fought.

And can we remember that Jiraiya went in there alone? Summoned 3 people and that's it?

Naruto​

Pain was far away from the source body and he used a life axing jutsu in the beginning of the fight. Konan states that the other paths recover slower after Nagato focused all their chakra on Tendo.

Pain was not trying to kill Naruto.

• We see on several occasions that Akatsuki fight Jinchuriki and don't intend to kill them.
  • Gaara was forced to be kept alive.
  • Roshi was stated to have been dying, implying that he was fought with the intent to be kept alive.
  • Kisame confirms that they need to keep the Jinchuriki alive.
  • Madara issues the operation a capture mission. Again.
  • Sasuke says he's here to capture Bee, not kill him.
  • Akatsuki said not to wipe out the Jinchuriki.
  • Suigetsu says that initially they were fighting to capture, not to kill, and that they should fight with the intent to kill in order to capture him.
  • They emphasize that their goal was not to kill him.
  • Naruto after the fight with Pain says that the Akatsuki always try to take the Jinchuriki alive.
  • Obito, even during the war, tried to capture Naruto instead of killing.
  • After Naruto smacks around the Bijuu, Obito says he needs to fight him with the intent to kill.
• We see this in the fight as well.
  • They just wanted to incapacitate and capture Naruto, which they did with relative ease.
  • When Pain got Naruto on the ground, he avoided all his vitals because he wanted to capture him.
  • He trapped him in a mini planet and said "Operation capture Kyuubi complete".
  • Pain was trying to see how strong the 9 tails was.
• The pains didn't try any lethal techniques.
  • Didn't even try to soul rip him.
  • Didn't try the Deva x Asura combo.
  • Didn't try to snipe him.
  • Didn't try to feed him to the king of hell.
• So Pain wasn't trying to kill him.

And for every Naruto thread I've witnessed, not trying to kill = holding back pretty much. So Pain was holding back on Naruto.

Naruto came in the fight with help. He had Fukasaku, Shima, Gamabunta, Gamaken, and Gamahiro come help him. Unlike Jiraiya who came alone.

Naruto had a way to bypass all of Jiraiya's issues.

• Jiraiya's taijutsu couldn't work because the Pain would just dodge/block his attacks, and ninjutsu didn't work on him either because he would've absorbed it.
  • Naruto used an undodgeable taijutsu attack, which was noted by Pain to have been attempted to be avoided.
• Jiraiya struggled with overcoming the sight of the Paths.
  • Naruto destroyed one off guard when no one was focusing on him.
  • Sent one Pain inside a toad's mouth where no one could see them, then Naruto killed it.
  • Naruto used smoke bombs to surprise the Pains and attack one from above.
  • Manipulated a Pain who needed to stay still and haxed him to death.
• Jiraiya was on his own most of the time
  • Naruto had the Sages do Frog Song off rip.
  • The toads handled the summons. Here, here, here, here, here.
  • Shima made a smokescreen.
  • Fukusaku summoned his clone for him.
• Jiraiya needed prior knowledge to win.
  • Naruto had Katsuyu on his shoulder for the whole fight, verbatim stated to be there for intel.
  • She told Naruto about the absorber Pain's ability of absorbing ninjutsu, which Jiraiya needed to find out.
  • She told Naruto about the Deva Path and the time interval.
  • She told Naruto about the info that the Paths of Pain are puppets.

In Conclusion​

Using these statements for strength when in a powerscaling perspective, Jiraiya is superior, is an issue.
It'd be unfair to take the other statements into strict evaluation but to allow this statement to be 100% for AP.

The most it'd be for is for the rasenshuriken.

Also, what's the viewpoint on this?

 

[LordTracer]

Also, what's the viewpoint on this?

My viewpoint is that you’re banned from ever using the word fodder again

 

[Urshani]

what's part 2 gonna be? 3? 4? how many parts will this have

 

[LordTracer]

what's part 2 gonna be? 3? 4? how many parts will this have

The second part of the revisions will be dealing with the scaling of Part I. There will also be parts for Bijuu/Tier 6 scaling, speed and possibly more, but you’ll have to wait to find out when those are happening UwU

 

[KingTempest]

My viewpoint is that you’re banned from ever using the word fodder again

Answer the question fodder

 

[LordTracer]

Answer the question fodder

Slayer did most of the Pain Arc scaling, I’m gonna have to let him get it

 

[KingTempest]

Slayer did most of the Pain Arc scaling, I’m gonna have to let him get it

I hate you, but gg

 

[LordTracer]

I hate you, but gg

As you should

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Has anything been agreed upon?

 

[LordTracer]

Almost everything, there’s just a couple of things that still have to be discussed

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

What's left to discuss?

 

[LordTracer]

This.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This.

(Also our debate but yeah)

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

What's left to discuss?

Sannin stuff and Minato wank.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

What's left to discuss?

Nothing, because I'll delete all of the opposition's comments

 

[M3X_2.0]

Reported

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sannin stuff and Minato wank.

I wouldn't call putting Minato at least relative to his rival is wank. Ay literally complimented Minato's power.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Being super skilled and the fastest shinobi alive would be an incredible power to have yes.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Being super skilled and the fastest shinobi alive would be an incredible power to have yes.

.........

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I don't get y people are liking me, I thought people don't agree with me.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I don't get y people are liking me, I thought people don't agree with me

We don't, but we like you

 

[M3X_2.0]

I agree with you

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I dont mind scaling Base Minato to Kid Obito though :^)

 

[KingTempest]

GokuSparkle

Minato will never not be fodder on this wiki until Naruto says in Boruto "he was stronger than I was"

 

[LordTracer]

I reiterate that you shouldn’t be allowed to use the word fodder anymore smh

 

[Damage3245]

Blame Minato for having virtually no feats.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

"he was stronger than I was against Pain"*

FTFY

 

[KingTempest]

I reiterate not caring

 

[BlackeJan]

You guys shouldn't get your hopes up for any Bijū related multipliers. They simply do not work, ever.

We won’t know until we try!

 

[BlackeJan]

Blame Minato for having virtually no feats.

Gotta blame Kishimoto on that one

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I agree with you

Hey, at least I've got one ally.

I dont mind scaling Base Minato to Kid Obito though :^)

One Rasengan literally melted his arm, I don't think he scales TO Obito.

GokuSparkle

Minato will never not be fodder on this wiki until Naruto says in Boruto "he was stronger than I was"

We'll see about that.

Blame Minato for having virtually no feats.

Gotta blame Kishimoto on that one

Can't blame Kishi for something that didn't happen.

Oh also a statement I thought of in a debate that I thought I'd bring up

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Can't believe Minato's 7-B while Tobirama is High 7-A+ when he has literally zero scaleable AP feats (no having high chakra isn't an AP feat).

 

[LordTracer]

This isn’t necessarily in response to you, but I feel like a lot of people aren’t realizing that not every 7-B scales to the same value, and a lot of them were going to be 7-A-

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This isn’t necessarily in response to you, but I feel like a lot of people aren’t realizing that not every 7-B scales to the same value, and a lot of them were going to be 7-A-

Even so, 7-A is lower than what he should be. Not as bad as it is now, but still pretty bad.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Y'all shouldn't complain too much about 7-B. Y'all will miss it when it becomes High 7-C or less soon.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Y'all shouldn't complain too much about 7-B. Y'all will miss it when it becomes High 7-C or less soon.

Yo if Minato goes to High 7-C I will literally riot-