(I know you're not supporting his point when I say this) He was never slower than Sasuke.
No, because he was still suffering from his disease, just not quite as badly as in Part II.
I'm not sure. It's possible, but he was sick at the time, while Edo Itachi was completely rid of his illness. So it kinda depends on how much his illness was affecting him at the time, which we just don't know, so we went with a more conservative scaling for him.
Alright that's fair
Ehh would be redundant. He's never... existed before. It's like a what-if key to be exact.
Gotcha
That is true.
Well, I was gonna get confirmation from the staff already here if the thread is good to go, but Slayer wanted Sparkle to finish his response to him before I did that.
Actually taijutsu is stated to be related to speed and strength, not just strong fist.
I am finished.
I was discussing why WA Ay being the same strength as FKS Ay doesn't make sense narratively, and used MS Sasuke and KCM Naruto as an example.
That is a strawman. I only said V1 Ay is slower.
It's necessary to show WA Ay>FKS Ay
Karin didn't sense Sasuke's chakra as being stronger without his dojutsu activated. So yeah.
Lightning Chakra Mode is Raiton enhanced Shunshin. Also why wouldn't he use Shunshin against Sasuke when he's bloodlusted and trying to murder him? Besides, even when Ay went V2 and absolutely used Shunshin, MS Sasuke still somewhat reacted to him
I'm trying to prove WA Ay>FKS Ay
Uh...yes, I believe so. Why is this so shocking?
GOKUSPARKLE YOU'RE THE BEST
Well obviously I know that already, but why tho. I'm not sure if you're being ironic and actually thinking "Wow you're really using 'interviews' as evidence, what terrible reasoning."
Oh, uh...well sorry to rain on your parade but the blog with all the interviews conveniently located seems to have been removed, although they may still be scattered across the site.
mblintheu.wordpress.com
mblintheu.wordpress.com
Hey, you never know man. I've had many of my proposals accepted before when I thought they'd never be accepted in a million years, and vice versa.
He has one flimsy statement putting him above vs 2 other more direct statements that put him there, so I respectfully disagree with your assessment.
No, it's unquantifiable is what it is. That version of Obito has literally one feat, which is surviving that Rasengan. Otherwise he's featless.
He made no direct mention of speed either. That statement was made right after Naruto casually smashed the Asura Path to pieces, an AP feat. So it stands to reason that the statement would be about just that.
Kakashi's statement not mentioning power does not contradict the other statement, they complement each other. And this part about DC vs AP is complete headcanon.
I mean, this really changes nothing lol. Naruto's Rasenshuriken would still scale above this hypothetical Jutsu of his anyway.
Apparently Minato had a jutsu like the Rasenshuriken, so maybe that's all the statement means (do I fully belive in this argument? Eh, not fully although for something I came up with on the fly it actually sorta makes sense. But hey, if ppl here won't accept the retcon argument I'll just have to make due).
It means nothing. All it would change is that Fukasaku's statement would be about base Minato instead of SM, it doesn't mean he's not capped by the FRS though.
No, it's not. These are completely baseless assumptions.
He was nothing, that version of Obito is featless.
And you can't prove that it was fear, so this point is completely moot.
Yes, but that version of B is completely Unknown, his base is featless, and we won't scale B from 16 years ago to current B for no reason. Especially not when we know he trained and got stronger, in attempts to catch up to his brother.
No offense, but I don't care about "author intent" or how you personally feel about a character. If he has zero AP feats against them, which he does, then we can't scale him just because and ignore other statements putting him lower because we don't like them. Let's try to be more objective, alright?
He fought A many times, not B. And even if he fought B later, you can't just assume that he used something. You also can't assume how the fight went. We're literally going into "what if?" territory right now.
Which is another unsubstantiated claim.
Which doesn't matter. There's a chance that Hidan is Bijuu level, too. Same with practically half the cast if you really wanna argue it. But we try to use the most likely and consistent interpretations.
Well, Minato does scale above Jiraiya via scaling above Hiruzen and Orochimaru, so that covers that I suppose. But we're not going to use a statement like that without further context.
Not really.
That statement is full of shit, to an extent. They were "close" to their original strength, relatively speaking, but they were still weaker as Madara and Hashirama later confirmed. They were sure as hell way closer than their previous Edo Tensei revival, so that's probably what Tobirama was referring to. Also, the 10x thing is irrelevant right now until the multiplier is accepted, and it's not like Madara has anti-feats anyway. He pretty much stomped Tobirama.
"Strength" here could literally be referring to any number of things. Strength with their Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, or both, and it could be referring to base or SM Hashirama. It's too vague for you to extrapolate anything from it. And it sure as hell doesn't say "Madara is capable of trading blows with Sage Hashirama" or "They physically clashed after Hashirama put the Kyuubi to sleep."Sure, but it implies they fought in cqc, and it's in line with this statement
Yes, and I'm saying this is worthless because you didn't provide actual proof that Madara was in fact weakened in any way.
No, he wouldn't. The statements mention nothing about AP. Hell, the "I would've died" statement is literally referring to Amaterasu lol. There's no avenue for Itachi to scale to Obito physically, and vice versa.
I already said I don't have the novel. If you can bring the quotes, go ahead and do so.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's still completely unquantifiable.
I don't believe they are necessary. The scans already attached to his profile already convey the idea that Minato thought him to be a threat adequately. I don't think it's needed to scale him to some vague level of "Nine-Tails' power". If we knew what level Minato was referring to, then it'd be pretty solid, but we kinda don't. And I really don't want people to extrapolate that Orange Mask Obito is, like, Kurama level or something.
Not really. He's just inquiring about the technique. He doesn't even look shocked tbf, let alone scared. This is certainly not solid proof that he was weaker than Sasuke or that he got stronger.Idk he seemed pretty concerned
Gaara used an extremely small quantity of sand in said attack, he wasn't exactly going all out with that attack, and even if he was, that's just a feat for Sasuke rather than an anti-feat for Gaara.
No, it shouldn't. It's irrelevant given the complete lack of details on it. It's irrelevant information that will only confuse people and lead to stupid CRTs in the future about "wHy DoEsN't ChIyO aNd KiMiMaRo ScAlE tO High 7-A?".
First of all, it scales to 33 megatons, like Hiruzen.
He said he needed to up his speed, yes, but he was in V2. V2 isn't alway operating at full power necessarily, as we saw in his clash with B's Lariat. He was in V2, but clearly holding back because after the clash he actually went full power to go after Naruto, which was noted by B himself.
The same goes for PT. It also has no feats or statements that would put it above.That makes 7-B Minato even more absurd. How is a partial transformation weaker than a small amount of globby chakra of the Bijuu? There are at least arguments for V2>PT even if shaky, but there's literally nothing to suggest V1 is stronger than this.
V1 is: not very focused/concentrated, much smaller, in a less complete state, has worse feats, doesn't have any statements or implications to suggest it being superior, etc.
No.
Ehhh, it won't hurt to try. I'm just telling you not to get your hopes up.
How is his strength literally varying and changing not important to note on his AP section?
I was talking about the Biju he absorbed being an inferior amp to the Biju within Madara.Who says it's an inferior amp? Seems like headcanon. It's actually a huge amp given that it allowed BZ Obito to fight KCM2 Minato and Kakashi which Obito by himself probably wouldn't be able to do (I mean if you ask me Base Minato would solo, but even with a normie mindset I think KCM2 Minato>Rinnegan Obito isn't a very hot take), especially while weakened.
The first feat isn't even an AP feat. It's chakra arm shenanigans, which can go intangible and stuff. The second one doesn't really matter because it was after his Biju amp.Plus Obito even without SPC tagging Juubidara (even if offguard) contributes to the idea that he's at least relative to Rinnegan SM Madara.
"Woulda, coulda, shoulda", and once again it doesn't matter, and doesn't change anything about what I said.
Yes, and even if the statement applied to 59 year old Hiruzen, it still wouldn't apply to his 69 year old self because he is confirmed to be weaker, so this is irrelevant.
A values strength, yes, but he never admits inferiority to Minato in any way except speed. The databook also compares their speed and reflexes, but never their power. Not once. Such vague statements should be taken with a grain of salt.Also I realized I didn't respond to your reply about Ay's statement regarding Minato. There are multiple published translations, so idk about official but I know now the site only accepts viz for some reason. Anyways, even the viz translation is still referring to strength. It's just less clear. Because Ay saying Minato is the finest shinobi directly pits Minato above every other ninja Ay knows in power, as power is what he values first and foremost in a shinobi
Him saying that Minato had great power, does not mean that he's admitting inferiority to him. "Finer shinobi" could mean so many things it's not even funny. Hashirama called Itachi a better shinobi than him, does that mean Itachi should scale above Hashirama now?Plus a statement following this proves Ay was talking about power.
"A noble man. A finer shinobi never lived...But even so, with all his power, why do you think he is not here today to help stop this crisis?" Him talking about Minato's character is unrelated to him saying a finer shinobi never lived.
It's really irrelevant, and would kinda contradict the manga since he took the punch in the manga.
Yeah, no. We're not scaling Minato to Kurama lol, get outta here.Also if you're massively inferior to someone, you can't trap them with RDS, yet Minato was able to seal Kurama, and it wasn't even that hard.
You could use this for Tier 6 scaling, but I'll just say for now that a 7-B would not be able to replicate this feat.
Well, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then.
The consensus seems to be agreeing with the profiles, but a few (including mostly me) has disagreements with the profile, such as Base Naruto surpassing Minato in the Pain Arc. I have many other disagreements I'm currently arguing about with Slayer and Tracer so that'll have to be finished before a summary is made.
Just having the dōjutsu would enhance the jinchūriki’s power, since dōjutsu are accepted as being amps now.
Will save this. Thank you.
Should maybe mention that they also have Obito's Chakra in them as well which is the reason they have the Dojutsu I guess?
Yeah, it's just like Pain. Those dead bodies he was using sure as hell weren't as strong as Sage Mode users naturally lol. Especially when we also know their strength varies based on the amount of chakra channeled into them.
Should be noted that they're a unique case compared to Nagato's Paths who were just dead corpses turned into meat puppets.
Wasn't Madara with 2 rinnegan still not as strong as he was with EMS?
All this means is that the EMS is superior to the fake Rinnegan.
Fineeeeee
It's really weird that their are no restrictions to the EMS Tech when you're an Edo Tensei but there's some restrictions to the Rinnegan Tech when you're an Edo Tensei
Good luck and may the odds be ever in your favor
