Scarlet Witch should be at least 2-A, in House of M

[Antvasima]

1) Billions of souls is not the same as billions of worlds and dimensions.

2) It is uncertain what is meant with "all there is" in this case. It frequently strictly refers to a single universe.

3) This is accurate.

4) This also seems accurate.

5) Ms. Marvel is not a reliable source of information, and likely meant the local universe.

6) The scan only shows unquantifiable speculation.

 

[LordTracer]

Oh, I read that first one wrong. My mistake.

Just speculation on my part, but I believe Doctor Strange retained all of his knowledge prior to being retconned. He's seen places like the Dark Dimension with infinite universes, I don't think he'd say all of reality if he only meant a single universe.

It doesn't seem like speculation, his statements are very definitive, nothing seems unsure or hypothesized. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Wanda have to be 2-A to forcefully push a 2-A (still assuming universal) being such as The Phoenix Force?

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Oh, I read that first one wrong. My mistake.

Just speculation on my part, but I believe Doctor Strange retained all of his knowledge prior to being retconned. He's seen places like the Dark Dimension with infinite universes, I don't think he'd say all of reality if he only meant a single universe.

It doesn't seem like speculation, his statements are very definitive, nothing seems unsure or hypothesized. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Wanda have to be 2-A to forcefully push a 2-A (still assuming universal) being such as The Phoenix Force?

She did that with the help of Hope though... Wanda alone couldn't win against Dark Phoenix Cyclops.

 

[LordTracer]

Wanda banished the PF with the help of Hope. She pushed it on her own.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Wanda banished the PF with the help of Hope. She pushed it on her own.

Ah, you meant the spell.

 

[Antvasima]

The Phoenix Force is not consistently portrayed at a 2-A level, but Wanda definitely caused a ripple-effect across the multiverse, that Roma stated threatened to gradually destroy many other universes if I remember correctly. That seemed to be via chain reaction rather than raw power though.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

It depends on the current host(s) really.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

It depends on the current host(s) really.

And if the Phoenix of 616 is the whole thing. In Warsong for example it was a fragment.

 

[Antvasima]

It probably is just the local aspect of the Phoenix Force.

 

[AshenCrow777]

I think it's also host(s) compatibility since the Phoenix did straight up say out of all her hosts and different multiverse timeliness Jean Grey is only the best and suitable for her it's the main reason why Jean became the white crown Phoenix.


I doubt other host could get that close to Jean but it's not unlikely since Scott and hope seemed to to be favored by the Phoenix.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Can someone please add Flight in Scarlet Witch's profile? It's missing, even though she could fly.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not clearly remember her flying. Do you have any scans?

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I do not clearly remember her flying. Do you have any scans?

Really?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems fine to add then.

 

[Soratoum]

There are so many other abilities missing too, though. I've listed them somewhere in this thread, around September 25, 2018.

 

[Antvasima]

I think some of these are pretty self-explanatory, such as "Chaos Manipulation" and "Flight".

Levitation, Physics Manipulation, Teleportation, Portal Creation and similar

Duplication

Clairvoyance

Soul Manipulation

Matter Manipulation

Superhuman Physical Characteristics (unfazed by Captain America's shield)

Superhuman Speed (able to notice and pin down Quicksilver), also caught Mjolnir with hexes, also fought/reacted to Thor (and beat him). This scan should also prove that she can Time Stop/Time Manipulate since she stopped time. She also reacted to Dark Phoenix who is MFTL+

BFR(forgot to add this one on that list)

Power Nullification - Well, "No more mutants" nullified powers of others.

Pocket Reality Manipulation - At the start of House of M, she created a pocket reality, which she could manipulate.

Telepathy/Mind Manipulation/Mind Control - Was able to shut down minds of X-Men, including the likes of Emma Frost and Magneto.

Precognition - Has auto-shields.

Energy/Element Manipulation - I think it's pretty obvious. She manipulates Chaos Magic and was able to turn Thor's lighting into butterflies.. This scan also shows how she reacted to Thor almost hammering her to death.

Darkness Manipulation - This doesn't have to be on her list, but it can due to her being able to manipulate Chaos Magic, which basically Darkness Manipulation.

Longevity - Since she's a witch, she was shown to be capable to resist ageing

Power Bestowal - She's been able to give back powers to some mutants after HoM incident.

Existence Erasure/Astral Projection/Dimensional and Cosmic Awareness - I think it's pretty obvious,

I don't know if I forgot some.

I do not have the time to verify all of this, but you can ask some of the following members to give input here about it:

Sandman31, KLOL506, Zensum, C2 of Omego, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Qawsedf234, PrinceOfTheMorning, SuperAPM, LephyrTheRevanchist, Zark2099.

 

[ArthurCurry89]

Soratoum


if Antvasima answers u like that automatically means in VS Battle wiki: "Get lost, nobody listens u".


Also i tried to amp some character which i know well but traited me like a garbage. Do not waste your time on VS Battle wiki. Good advice

 

[Antvasima]

No, it means exactly what I said. I am extremely overworked, and recurrently need help from other trusted members to verify information.

 

[AshenCrow777]

OK in the span of 3 days did anyone checked anything? I don't see why we can't add any of this I feel this is going on for no reason at all when it's clear what she can do.

 

[Antvasima]

Some trusted experienced member needs to verify the information, as I am too overworked to check out all of the links.

 

[LordTracer]

- Strange states that her spell is woven into all that exists, and all reality would implode if he tried to reverse it.

- With the help of Hope Summers, she banished the (I assume universal) Phoenix Force.

- Cracks were formed across all realities because of Wanda.

- Wanda pushed The Phoenix Force.

Buuuuump.

 

[Hykuu]

*Original Response*

What? That's literally not what's Insinuated in the scans at all, the problem with these scans is you are making it like the crack and the Chaos Wave weren't actually caused by Wanda, which was already demonstrated to be false, TWICE. The Crack itself made a hole in reality, and the effects of "No More Mutants." Was going to leak beyond the 616 reality, and effect all of creation, and destroy otherworld, as we know, that's what happened This literally doesn't disclude The Chaos Wave from being 2-A At all, It is just that they tried sealing the cracks BEFORE the effects took place. That wouldn't inherently equate to the Wave being limited to a single reality or not being Wanda's creation, and we do literally know that, The Crack, The X, The Wave, The Warp were all done by SW as shown in the comics, and as SupahCabre stated: "It was already retconned that "House of M" was all her power, and according to Red Skull she can do it again at any time (just give her an hour to meditate)."

The Life Force argument remains unrefuted, and the Scans LordTracer posted Seal The Deal, And No, Chthon used her as a vessel, sure, but that was never the point?We literally have a direct statement of all of the Witch's Chaos Magic coming from Chtho , The Same Chthon who literally 1 shot Strange just by existing.

So yeah, I agree with the upgrades, by the way, The Warp (Literally noted to be the Witch's) did bring back MJJ, and made him merge with Fury, so.....

 

[Hykuu]

Here

Here

Here

Here

Here

Literally 5 instances of the power during House of M, which she got credited for, being Multiversal+, with her own power being equal to the Phoenix, her having the Lifeforce, which made post retcon beyonder seem like nothing, the "No More Mutants" specifically affecting all realities, stated twice, and her getting the credit for all of this.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to ask some of the members I linked to earlier to verify this?

 

[LordTracer]

I asked some knowledgeable members to give input already, but I'll ask some more.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Ayewale]

Doesn't she have an 'at least 2-C' key for her House of M feats? And I had thought that we had stopped using the Chaos Wave to scale to her a while ago.

 

[Ayewale]

Anyways, going off the generally respectable comicvine page + marvel wiki, she does not control the Chaos Wave.

 

[Ayewale]

Another thing about House of M is that, depending on the comic, No More Mutants either affected just Earth-616 and the 'Omniverse'.

 

[LordTracer]

Her HoM key is at least Low 2-C, not at least 2-C. And Hykuu gave actual scans showing that she does control the Chaos Wave.

 

[Ayewale]

But even in-canon is stated that she does not control the Chaos Wave. How far exactly are we willing to ignore in-character statements?

 

[Ayewale]

Hykuu's scans were also arguably debunked a ******* year ago.

 

[LordTracer]

Then I suppose you should be capable of contesting them with scans of your own, no?

 

[Ayewale]

About the scarlet witch affecting Creation/omniverse thing
The Chaos Wave that affected all of creation wasnt created by Wanda, when Scarlet Witch replaced 616 with the House of M reality, she accidentally tore open a rift in time and space and unleashed a wave of chaotic temporal energies that slammed into countless alternate realities, breaking down the barriers between Universes and causing untold destruction wherever it went. The Chaos Wave eventually washed up onto The Starlight Citadel and crushed it killing Roma in the process who, despite all her power, was unable to hold it back.

So all that happened was SW accidentally tore open a rift in space time that unleashed the Chaos Wave but the Chaos wave itself wasnt created by wanda

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98212/1785485-14uncanny_x_men462_32.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98212/1785486-47uncanny_x_men465_12.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98212/1785487-47uncanny_x_men465_30.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98212/1785489-47uncanny_x_men465_36.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98212/1785490-47uncanny_x_men465_37.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98212/1785491-47uncanny_x_men465_38.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98212/1785492-47uncanny_x_men465_40.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98212/1785493-47uncanny_x_men465_42.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98212/1785494-47uncanny_x_men465_46.jpg

It's just like when the Next and Superman made a hole in space-time that let the Oblivion Shadow in, obviously they are not "metaversal" because of that

Also, Chthon was never mentioned in HoM, he doesnt have anything to do with SW HoM feats

Wanda was born with her own power. Chthon gave her his magical potential. This, however, was only to prepare himself for when he was going to take over earth. The plan was to use Wanda's body for its powers and abilities and then take over it later. So all Chthon did was give Wanda her potential for magic, marking her as a potential vessel for the future

Anyway, Chthon did later take over Wanda's body and power but at the end Chthon was stomped easily and fled because he was afraid of Demogorge The God-Eater

Here.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ayewale

Thank you for the help. It seems like this has been rejected then.

 

[Ayewale]

You're welcome! I'm glad we can talk more about Witchy girl.

 

[Antvasima]

Should I close this thread?

 

[Ayewale]

I think so.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Antvasima]

Hykuu told me that he has something left to say here.