Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[Antvasima]

Btw, just to add more to this, it seems Kirinator also deleted the message by Agnaa regarding that edit restriction.

Okay. I suppose that an actual block is likely in order then.

@Agnaa

Are you willing to take a look here please?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Regarding Cyber_Vergil: I feel sympathetic towards the situation in Russia and the issues that arise as part of it. Complications are to be expected and I hesitate to disregard insight from another person in the same country- they'd have a better point of view on the specifics than I. However, it is still an extremely common "defense", and while I could understand more generous interpretations behind some of their posts, the verbiage to me implies them being the same person rather than related close parties.

I don't know a good solution regarding this that does not ask for evidence well beyond the scope of what we ought to ask for. I'd personally be willing to vote that a very close eye be kept on Vergil for the time being, but given the muddiness of the situation am not particularly faithful that all of this is not fake.

Regarding Kirinator: This is reaching a comical amount of warnings at this point. I'll reiterate that many of these edits are tiny infringements but there seems to be a deliberate unwillingness to heed warnings. I'd be down for an edit ban or even an outright ban of shorter duration.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Btw, just to add more to this, it seems Kirinator also deleted the message by Agnaa regarding that edit restriction.

This comment probably won't help at all, so please delete it if I break the "don't comment if it's not useful" rule.

But for me, so much this warning.

I've now left a notification for a 6 month editing restriction.

Like these two in bold.

Changing a profile without a CRT: 7 (First Warning, Second Warning, Third Warning, Fourth Warning, Fifth Warning, Sixth Warning, Seventh Warning)

They're not showing up for me, like they've been deleted.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah, he seems to have deleted them. I think a ban is in order.

 

[Kirinator07]

Hmm. Do you have anything to say in your defence, @Kirinator07 ?

In terms of editing, the profile was created from a CRT of mine, the mention of injuries and such could've been changed as a weakness or mentioned in that CRT of mine as I forgot it was there as the CRT appeared to be dying, I suppose an edit restriction of a week of sort would be fine.

 

[Antvasima]

You also deleted and ignored lots of warning messages that I just restored, including one that told you outright that we will have to ban you if you continue deleting them.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that MrKerf's posts should remain here, and feel sorry for our Russian members who want to be able to enjoy the same kind of entertainment and online friendships that they could before their government started to block everything outside of their own borders.

Is it reasonable for us to at least let Vergil's account remain unbanned here? As MrKerf said, the options for regular Russian citizens have been greatly diminished during the last few years, so shared family accounts are likely rather commonplace, and I do not want to help isolate regular Russian citizens from the outside world.

Regarding Cyber_Vergil: I feel sympathetic towards the situation in Russia and the issues that arise as part of it. Complications are to be expected and I hesitate to disregard insight from another person in the same country- they'd have a better point of view on the specifics than I. However, it is still an extremely common "defense", and while I could understand more generous interpretations behind some of their posts, the verbiage to me implies them being the same person rather than related close parties.

I don't know a good solution regarding this that does not ask for evidence well beyond the scope of what we ought to ask for. I'd personally be willing to vote that a very close eye be kept on Vergil for the time being, but given the muddiness of the situation am not particularly faithful that all of this is not fake.

I think that @MrKerf should be allowed to post in this thread regarding this topic.

 

[Kirinator07]

You also deleted and ignored lots of warning messages that I just restored, including one that told you outright that we will have to ban you if you continue deleting them.

I did delete the ones regarding the breaking of such rules but not necessarily the editing mistake ones from 1 to 5, I would maybe suppose a week of reflection would do if that's what is considered of course.

 

[Antvasima]

What do the rest of our staff members think we should do regarding Kirinator07?

 

[Propellus]

Considering how he consistently keeps deleting warnings and continues to insist on repeating the same issues he was warned for, I'd say a short ban is warranted

 

[Deagonx]

I think an edit ban of a considerable duration is in order.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

An editing ban would be the light approach I think, I'm proposing a ban of one month.

 

[Antvasima]

That is probably fine, yes.

 

[Dragonite007]

Jason was vandalized by this user

 

[ByAsura]

To be fair, that's not really the case. We in Russia commonly use VPN all the time, since most of the sites are blocked anyway (you can notice me sometimes complaining about wikidot).

DarkGrath also makes very good sense above.

If this is the case, could we just (if necessary) ask FANDOM if his or Vergil's IPs semi-commonly change and have overlapped at some point?

 

[Agnaa]

Also, Agnaa doesn't make sense to me, sorry Ant.
What extra evidence to being innocent? What's up with innocent until proven otherwise? Here even the so-called classic "it was my sibling" doesn't work since different IPs.
Besides the "go seek work" thing, which was admitted, I don't see any actual evidence of sock puppeteering.
Thank you for reading my not-so-in-depth guide to Russia computer management.

There is a bunch of evidence. Sharing interests, having joined after Darth was banned, having the same formatting for calcs, etc.

My point is that you're excusing all of this evidence by saying that they're siblings. But if we accept that, we'd be forced to let almost every sockpuppeter go. Even matching IPs, sleep schedules, etc. wouldn't be enough. And so I'd want more evidence than that claim (made with zero evidence) to outweigh the evidence of guilt.

Is it reasonable for us to at least let Vergil's account remain unbanned here? As MrKerf said, the options for regular Russian citizens have been greatly diminished during the last few years, so shared family accounts are likely rather commonplace, and I do not want to help isolate regular Russian citizens from the outside world.

I don't think that's likely enough. We have to draw our line of evidence somewhere, and I'm more than happy to draw it here.

And it seems like there's a pretty strong staff consensus towards banning him. If you want, I can make a tally to demonstrate that.

In terms of editing, the profile was created from a CRT of mine, the mention of injuries and such could've been changed as a weakness or mentioned in that CRT of mine as I forgot it was there as the CRT appeared to be dying, I suppose an edit restriction of a week of sort would be fine.

That CRT wasn't passed, creating a thread and having no-one accept it isn't sufficient for bypassing an editing restriction.

I've applied a one month ban, the allegations of warning deletion turned out to be false, so I'm fine with this result.

This comment probably won't help at all, so please delete it if I break the "don't comment if it's not useful" rule.

But for me, so much this warning.

Like these two in bold.

They're not showing up for me, like they've been deleted.

I don't know why that's happening to you. I just opened them up in a different browser that's not logged in and they loaded fine.

Jason was vandalized by this user

I've warned them and blocked them for three days. Other staff members can feel free to make that ban longer.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I don't know why that's happening to you. I just opened them up in a different browser that's not logged in and they loaded fine.

Apparently Ant restored the messages, but they were previously deleted.

Now it appears to me too.

That CRT wasn't passed, creating a thread and having no-one accept it isn't sufficient for bypassing an editing restriction.

I've applied a one month ban, the allegations of warning deletion turned out to be false, so I'm fine with this result.

Regarding the edit he made, should it be reverted?

Link to the edit he made

 

[Agnaa]

The entire profile was created yesterday by him after a CRT for its creation wasn't accepted, so I'll just delete it entirely.

EDIT: Done.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

You also deleted and ignored lots of warning messages that I just restored, including one that told you outright that we will have to ban you if you continue deleting them.

I've applied a one month ban, the allegations of warning deletion turned out to be false, so I'm fine with this result.

Just to point out, Ant did confirm he did restore the deleted messages.

Edit: I forget to add this too as Kirinator also admits to delete warnings as well.

I did delete the ones regarding the breaking of such rules but not necessarily the editing mistake ones from 1 to 5, I would maybe suppose a week of reflection would do if that's what is considered of course.

Regardless though, the matter has been resolved.

 

[Deagonx]

Are we only applying an overall 1 month ban for Kirinator? I think his editing ban should be a decent bit longer.

 

[Agnaa]

He already had an indefinite editing ban.

 

[MrKerf]

I think that @MrKerf should be allowed to post in this thread regarding this topic.

It's alright, I don't want to derail the staff workplace any longer. Just gave a few insights and I still think that you're not thorough enough with your investigation. Sure, being a family member can be a made-up excuse, doesn't mean it is the case.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I don't know if it's against the rules, but this profile @Nostredam is using a naked woman as a cover

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Can't help but feel this is an abuse of power but Moritzva self proclaimed a VS match a stomp despite 7 people agreeing otherwise and locked the thread.

Walter White tries to fight a dinosaur again (12-12-0)

Rules: Speed equalized Herrerasaurus has it's Above Average lifting strength Walter White has his Smith & Wesson Model 442 Battle takes place in Gus's Superlab Walter has prior knowledge Heisenberg: (MrKerf, Shmeatywerbenmanjenson, XSOULOFCINDERX, Serlock_Holmes, AThe1412, H3110l12345I20...

vsbattles.com

 

[Propellus]

I don't know if it's against the rules, but this profile @Nostredam is using a naked woman as a cover

I don't see it

 

[Agnaa]

I don't know if it's against the rules, but this profile @Nostredam is using a naked woman as a cover

Hm, I'm a bit torn, all relevant body parts look to be censored or covered up, so I'm not sure if it would count as a rule violation.

I'll look into the Mori stuff and write up a post about it soon.

 

[Agnaa]

Can't help but feel this is an abuse of power but Moritzva self proclaimed a VS match a stomp despite 7 people agreeing otherwise and locked the thread.

Walter White tries to fight a dinosaur again (12-12-0)

Rules: Speed equalized Herrerasaurus has it's Above Average lifting strength Walter White has his Smith & Wesson Model 442 Battle takes place in Gus's Superlab Walter has prior knowledge Heisenberg: (MrKerf, Shmeatywerbenmanjenson, XSOULOFCINDERX, Serlock_Holmes, AThe1412, H3110l12345I20...

vsbattles.com

Given our definition of what exactly a Stomp Thread is, I don't believe that is one.

A stomp is a match where there is little to no challenge or danger for the winning character. Beyond being decisive, there will be little room for debate, only requiring a cursory knowledge to determine. Examples include massive tier differences, massive hax differences, and passive abilities against characters with no resistances. Examples of non-stomps include both characters having methods of winning, but one character being able to enact theirs more reliably or quickly.

Mori's argument relies on Walt missing shots, and getting scared, despite having preparation.

The arguments towards Walt winning rely on him using his preparation to get into places that are hard for the dinosaur to reach, or being able to land some lethal shots before the dinosaur could properly charge him down.

This seems like a situation that's reasonably open to discussion; given the stressful situations Walter's been in, it's arguable how well-composed he'd be in this sort of situation. And even Mori's argument for Walter losing still gives Walter a non-negligible chance of winning.

As such, I'm re-opening the thread.

If you believe this to be an abuse of power, rather than a mistake, you should report it to HR, instead of here.

 

[Moritzva]

Given our definition of what exactly a Stomp Thread is, I don't believe that is one.

A stomp is a match where there is little to no challenge or danger for the winning character. Beyond being decisive, there will be little room for debate, only requiring a cursory knowledge to determine. Examples include massive tier differences, massive hax differences, and passive abilities against characters with no resistances. Examples of non-stomps include both characters having methods of winning, but one character being able to enact theirs more reliably or quickly.

Mori's argument relies on Walt missing shots, and getting scared, despite having preparation.

The arguments towards Walt winning rely on him using his preparation to get into places that are hard for the dinosaur to reach, or being able to land some lethal shots before the dinosaur could properly charge him down.

This seems like a situation that's reasonably open to discussion; given the stressful situations Walter's been in, it's arguable how well-composed he'd be in this sort of situation. And even Mori's argument for Walter losing still gives Walter a non-negligible chance of winning.

As such, I'm re-opening the thread.

If you believe this to be an abuse of power, rather than a mistake, you should report it to HR, instead of here.

No, Walt has not been in such a stressful situation as shooting a dinosaur. In fact, he has hardly ever used guns in active combat situations against other people. Even the gun that he does have is a smaller gun that wouldn't even be particularly threatening to a dinosaur and its hide. Walt doesn't have prep at all, he has prior knowledge (which is not particularly useful against a dinosaur). He is literally just a cancer-ridden man with a glock staring down a dinosaur that is four times bigger than him and made of kill.

As such, I am re-closing the thread. I don't even know where you got the idea that he has prep from, it isn't in the OP and it was never mentioned in the thread. If he had prep things would potentially be different, but he'd still need a better gun.

Edit: Furthermore, somehow seven votes went by and literally nobody noticed any of this, so even in the scenario of people wanting to change the conditions of the thread, you might as well start a new one and abandon the nonsense FRA train that says a cancer patient with a small glock beats a dinosaur in enclosed quarters.

 

[Agnaa]

My bad on the preparation part, I misunderstood the OP's claim of "prior knowledge", after seeing this comment

Yea If Walter knows ahead of time that he could be ambushed he'd just climb to a high railing where he can overlook basically the whole lab

Everything else you mention are things worthy of active debate.

Does being threatened by murderers count as being as stressful of a situation as seeing a small dinosaur on the other side of a lab, when you know everything about that dinosaur?

Does deploying explosives, or an automatic machine gun from the trunk of a car count as a reasonable indication of being able to keep cool in high-stress combat situations?

Whether the gun is good enough is also a topic of reasonable discussion, imo; Flashlight made some interesting points comparing the build of the dinosaur to a grizzly bear, and using that to evaluate its effectiveness.

As our page on Stomp Threads clearly explains that stomps need to be beyond reasonable discussion, I'm re-opening the thread. I'd rather not sit here in a lock-war with you while we wait for other staff to evaluate this, so I'll try to expedite that process.

 

[Firestorm808]

Can someone link me the summary post of the current report?

 

[Agnaa]

Can someone link me the summary post of the current report?

Post 1, Post 2, Post 3, Post 4

 

[Moritzva]

My bad on the preparation part, I misunderstood the OP's claim of "prior knowledge", after seeing this comment

Everything else you mention are things worthy of active debate.

Does being threatened by murderers count as being as stressful of a situation as seeing a small dinosaur on the other side of a lab, when you know everything about that dinosaur?

Does deploying explosives, or an automatic machine gun from the trunk of a car count as a reasonable indication of being able to keep cool in high-stress combat situations?

Whether the gun is good enough is also a topic of reasonable discussion, imo; Flashlight made some interesting points comparing the build of the dinosaur to a grizzly bear, and using that to evaluate its effectiveness.

As our page on Stomp Threads clearly explains that stomps need to be beyond reasonable discussion, I'm re-opening the thread. I'd rather not sit here in a lock-war with you while we wait for other staff to evaluate this, so I'll try to expedite that process.

No.

No, also he does not have these.

If he was facing a grizzly bear he would also be screwed. Not to mention the fact that dinosaurs are known for their tougher, more scaly skin regardless.

I literally wrote the stomp page, Agnaa. I know how it works. Walt is screwed. The existence of people ignorant to the fact that his tiny gun is completely incapable of doing anything worthwhile to it does not prove otherwise. He's an untrained cancer patient with a glock versus a large dinosaur. Quit it.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Can you really just veto several votes in a VS thread and close it if you personally believe it to be a stomp, though? This isn't like a CRT where staff members have evaluation privileges that regular members don't

 

[Firestorm808]

A stomp is a match where there is little to no challenge or danger for the winning character. Beyond being decisive, there will be little room for debate, only requiring a cursory knowledge to determine. Examples include massive tier differences, massive hax differences, and passive abilities against characters with no resistances. Examples of non-stomps include both characters having methods of winning, but one character being able to enact theirs more reliably or quickly.

Tier-wise, they both have 10-A Durability with 9-C AP Bullets vs Claws.

At this point, it's a judge whether their skill/instinct difference is a big enough gap to qualify as a stomp which can be subjective.

IMO, Moritzva shouldn't have closed the thread without providing an example precedent that the skill gap is enough to make it a stomp.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'd really rather not get into a petty fight between staff on the RVRT. This is not the place for this, nor is it the standard place to debate the legitimacy of a match. However, it is a legitimate complaint if one staff member is insisting upon something with little place for a discussion.

Mori is right that Walter is traditionally not emotionally resilient. In the face of fear, it is quite likely that mistakes would be made. However he does not lose all ability to function immediately, and in fact the argument exists that in adrenaline-inducing situations, Walter is quite proficient. A dinosaur would not play upon his emotions and threaten him in the way that someone like Gus Fring or Tuco would.

A firearm would reasonably harm a dinosaur like this. Their durability is not sufficient to be immune. Even a single shot could kill it, and I believe Walter has at least a reasonable chance of landing a good shot. I think I'd personally disagree with him winning the match, but that's a separate matter entirely.

In summary: I agree that this does not seem like a stomp. Leave it open for now.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looking over the posts, I also agree more with Agnaa. While I do see some points made by Mori such as Dinosaurs having thicker skin compared to humans or bears, or Walter not being as brave or skilled as Breaking Bad fans make him out to be, I don't think it's stompy enough for a forced close.

 

[ShivaShakti]

There is literally nothing Walter can even do. It's a cancer ridden middle aged man vs one of the largest terrestrial predators in history. He has no win conditions.

 

[Agnaa]

There is literally nothing Walter can even do. It's a cancer ridden middle aged man vs one of the largest terrestrial predators in history. He has no win conditions.

Continuing on your message wall since this seems disjointed from the original report at this point.

 

[Antvasima]

I've warned them and blocked them for three days. Other staff members can feel free to make that ban longer.

Accounts that only show up to blatantly severely troll and/or vandalise within our wiki should almost always be given instant permanent bans.

 

[Antvasima]

Just to point out, Ant did confirm he did restore the deleted messages.

That is correct, yes.