Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[Tdjwo]

Okay. And that was a bad decision. I'm not sure what else you want me to say here. Your reasoning isn't hard to understand, but it wasn't a good reason to do that.

Maybe if you told me that it wasn't against the rules for a non-staff member to comment on something the OP considered a staff-only thread, I wouldn't have been frustrated at someone for repeatedly commenting despite trying to curb the amount of non-staff comments. I admit I was wrong but it's not like I did intentionally

That is the opinion shared by myself, Mav, and Lonkitt. I don't think there's any reason to drag this out. It's a very short ban, and he's been causing problems for a while now and has ignored multiple warnings. He will have plenty of opportunities to improve in two weeks.

Defending myself is me causing a problem? Wow. Banning me for 2 weeks for things I either didn't do intentionally, or for wrong reasons is illogical regardless of how short you think the ban is.
I'm going to quit replying for now as I have to drive my younger brother to school.

 

[Deagonx]

It's very obviously against the rules to be rude to other members. The pretext that you thought Dread was breaking a rule is not a good reason to do that, and it wasn't a staff only thread in the first place.

Being frustrated doesn't excuse toxic behavior. Explaining how and why you got so frustrated that you became rude doesn't make it okay nor should it prevent us from taking appropriate action.

 

[Tdjwo]

It's very obviously against the rules to be rude to other members. The pretext that you thought Dread was breaking a rule is not a good reason to do that, and it wasn't a staff only thread in the first place.

Ok, I admit I was being somewhat rude to Dread. Although, being rude shouldn't be mistaken for being toxic as I wasn't calling her names nor was I threatening her. That's a first strike. I'm pretty sure it takes 3 strikes to get a ban.

Being frustrated doesn't excuse toxic behavior. Explaining how and why you got so frustrated that you became rude doesn't make it okay nor should it prevent us from taking appropriate action.

Ok.

 

[Antvasima]

Ok, I admit I was being somewhat rude to Dread. Although, being rude shouldn't be mistaken for being toxic as I wasn't calling her names nor was I threatening her. That's a first strike. I'm pretty sure it takes 3 strikes to get a ban.

Those seem to be good points.

 

[Deagonx]

He's been warned other times, however. He's been threadbanned multiple times from staff threads (making comments like "this thread is ass, close it") and has been warned for rudeness before on threads, even by me personally. In addition to what Tracer said.

Look, defending oneself is one thing, but I'm not keen on treating the RVR like a CRT where an accused replies over and over and over, doing everything possible to muddy the waters or minimize their violation, trying to argue with everyone who points out their wrongdoing no matter how ridiculous the rebuttal is (it was rude, but not toxic because I didn't threaten her.)

They've been rude several times, they've been disruptive in threads, and we've three staff members advocating for a very modest two week ban. I think we should apply it and move on.

 

[Tdjwo]

He's been warned other times, however. He's been threadbanned multiple times from staff threads (making comments like "this thread is ass, close it") and has been warned for rudeness before on threads, even by me personally. In addition to what Tracer said.

Look, defending oneself is one thing, but I'm not keen on treating the RVR like a CRT where an accused replies over and over and over, doing everything possible to muddy the waters or minimize their violation, trying to argue with everyone who points out their wrongdoing no matter how ridiculous the rebuttal is (it was rude, but not toxic because I didn't threaten her.)

They've been rude several times, they've been disruptive in threads, and we've three staff members advocating for a very modest two week ban. I think we should apply it and move on.

I'm pretty sure I adressed every comment against me here ranging from LordTracer's to Lephry's and Immortal Dread. None of the complaints against me were true and completely misunderstood. You threadbanned me twice. First time because I said a thread didn't make any sense and that I was going to debunk the arguments in it which whilst I was at fault, you already handed me a punishment by threadbanning me. The second time you threadbanned me, it was completely unjustified as my intentions was to simply point out a harmless misunderstanding and once again, you threadbanned me as punishment.

Defending myself here doesn't equal arguing with everyone since as far as am concerned, only 4-5 of you complained about me and I'm the only one defending myself here so I think it's fair to let me have a say in what I did or didn't do before meeting out my punishments.

I have been rude only once and never toxic. My comments are always straight to the point wit zero sugarcoating so it's possible you mistake my pretentiousness to being rude or toxic. It really doesn't matter how many weeks you suggest for my ban. A ban is still a ban regardless and I think I'm allowed to have a say in such a decision especially when I have the ability to disporve wrong claims.

 

[Agnaa]

He's been warned other times, however. He's been threadbanned multiple times from staff threads (making comments like "this thread is ass, close it") and has been warned for rudeness before on threads, even by me personally. In addition to what Tracer said.

Look, defending oneself is one thing, but I'm not keen on treating the RVR like a CRT where an accused replies over and over and over, doing everything possible to muddy the waters or minimize their violation, trying to argue with everyone who points out their wrongdoing no matter how ridiculous the rebuttal is (it was rude, but not toxic because I didn't threaten her.)

They've been rude several times, they've been disruptive in threads, and we've three staff members advocating for a very modest two week ban. I think we should apply it and move on.

If you can bring up those other cases, that'd be useful.

Because so far, the only evidence that's been shown, is him being warned once for being mildly rude, immediately apologizing, and two other instances of him being mildly rude.

2 weeks seems like a massive overreaction for this.

 

[Deagonx]

2 weeks seems like a massive overreaction for this.

Does it? 2 weeks seems like exactly the kind of time frame for what you described. We can't just allow people to be rude, even if you see it as mild, in perpetuity with multiple warnings and never have it elevate to a ban. That sort of takes all the punch out of the point of a warning, IMO.

I mean, to each their own, but I just don't see the need to make this such an ordeal. Mav, Lonkitt, and myself said two weeks is fine. I struggle to see the utility in dragging out a long debate on the ethics of forum ban length when we're talking about such a short time frame, one which has already been agreed to by multiple people.

I'm also inclined to look less favorably on him given that he keeps trying to gaslight the whole RVR? Like, this:

You threadbanned me twice. First time because I said a thread didn't make any sense and that I was going to debunk the arguments in it which whilst I was at fault, you already handed me a punishment by threadbanning me.

Like, this quite literally isn't what happened. As I said, his comment was "this thread is ass, close it" And now he's saying "all I said was it didn't make sense and I was going to debunk the arguments!

I don't get the impression that he's using his opportunity to defend himself in good faith, and with the various incidents described I really just don't see how two weeks is some kind of overreaction.

 

[Agnaa]

Not in perpetuity, but not 2 weeks on the 2nd 3rd minor infraction, imo.

I don't think I'm really dragging this out; including this, I've made 3 posts giving my thoughts on the length.

Y'all can do it if you want.

 

[Deagonx]

Not in perpetuity, but not 2 weeks on the 2nd minor infraction, imo.

It isn't the 2nd infraction.

 

[Tdjwo]

It isn't the 2nd infraction.

I don't recall being rude more than twice at most. Your case and Dread's. You already punished me long ago for the first case. I don't think I've committed any offense up to 3 times.

 

[Agnaa]

It isn't the 2nd infraction.

My bad, I meant to say "on the 2nd warning", but that wording didn't make much sense, since this isn't a warning it's just shaping up to be a ban.

Third infraction, is accurate to the info shown in this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

I am afraid that I also think that a warning seems sufficient in this case.

 

[Deagonx]

I think he's had quite a few warnings now about his behavior, and it's a pretty short ban that's been agreed to by a few people including an admin. Warnings are only effective IMO when they carry a very real threat of a later punishment. I feel this is the same problem we were having with Weekly, where it's just warning after warning in perpetuity for months. Even if it's short, there needs to be some degree of escalation.

 

[Tdjwo]

I think he's had quite a few warnings now about his behavior, and it's a pretty short ban that's been agreed to by a few people including an admin. Warnings are only effective IMO when they carry a very real threat of a later punishment. I feel this is the same problem we were having with Weekly, where it's just warning after warning in perpetuity for months. Even if it's short, there needs to be some degree of escalation.

If I'm warned for something I didn't do or something wrong, I don't think it's fair to count that. I addressed how some warnings were unjustified like the case of me being blamed for something that has been resolved personally prior to any staff intervention.

 

[Agnaa]

I think he's had quite a few warnings now about his behavior, and it's a pretty short ban that's been agreed to by a few people including an admin. Warnings are only effective IMO when they carry a very real threat of a later punishment. I feel this is the same problem we were having with Weekly, where it's just warning after warning in perpetuity for months. Even if it's short, there needs to be some degree of escalation.

Again, if you show that more warnings were given, I'd be more sympathetic to that view (this is why we need a proper warning tracker).

And hey, agreed by 3 people including an admin, but disagreed by 2 people including a bureaucrat :v

 

[Lonkitt]

If he's been warned quite a few times, why are we settling for just another? A short ban seems ideal if multiple warnings have been issued and there's been another behavioural breach

 

[Agnaa]

If he's been warned quite a few times, why are we settling for just another? A short ban seems ideal if multiple warnings have been issued and there's been another behavioural breach

I would agree if there had been a bunch, but only one warning has been demonstrated so far. And these were all quite minor infractions.

You can think that one warning's enough for a ban, or take Deagon's memory at face value. But I just don't like the "no ban" side being misrepresented like that.

 

[Deagonx]

I've personally warned him twice, in addition to his warning here and now this incident which is currently occurring, and I've had to threadban him twice for disrupting staff discussion threads without permission. This is in addition to what other mods have said on the matter.

I still have no idea why we're spending this much time playing VSBW lawyers over the minutia of such an extremely short ban.

 

[Deagonx]

You can think that one warning's enough for a ban, or take Deagon's memory at face value. But I just don't like the "no ban" side being misrepresented like that.

I missed this edit prior to my response, but I have a pretty serious issue with this insinuation. These are all events of a few weeks ago at the most. Are you implying there is literally any level of doubt that I actually did warn him? And if so, why would you publicly question my memory instead of just going to check?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I don't like to snitch on people but..
Is this acceptable?
Dude's posted this on like 5-6 Staff members' walls.
Before someone says I can't count, there's at least one more message that wasn't in this screenshot.

 

[Deagonx]

I don't like to snitch on people but..
Is this acceptable?
Dude's posted this on like 5-6 Staff members' walls.
Before someone says I can't count, there's at least one more message that wasn't in this screenshot.

People do that pretty much all the time. Since becoming staff I get wall messages like that from people I do not know on a near daily basis. Perhaps a conversation could be had in the future about whether we should prevent that, but it's definitely not an infraction on his part.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

People do that pretty much all the time. Since becoming staff I get wall messages like that from people I do not know on a near daily basis. Perhaps a conversation could be had in the future about whether we should prevent that, but it's definitely not an infraction on his part.

I knew people did it, but didn't think they did it so frequently and on several staff members' walls, which is why I asked.
Thanks for the answer though.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm in favor of a warning for Tdjwo. Even if it's short, actively gunning for a ban for this seems too heavy-handed to me

 

[Crabwhale]

I don't like to snitch on people but..

"Snitching" is some dumbass term that shouldn't prevent you from reporting rule breaking in any capacity. Anyone who ever complains about "snitches" usually has dirty laundry to hide, and you can take that as an almost-fact. That being said,

Is this acceptable?
Dude's posted this on like 5-6 Staff members' walls.
Before someone says I can't count, there's at least one more message that wasn't in this screenshot.

This doesn't really break any rules.

 

[Agnaa]

I missed this edit prior to my response, but I have a pretty serious issue with this insinuation. These are all events of a few weeks ago at the most. Are you implying there is literally any level of doubt that I actually did warn him? And if so, why would you publicly question my memory instead of just going to check?

I've messed up stuff like that before.

I just went to check and found two warnings, still not sure if that's enough, since the instances were really minor, but maybe I missed some.

And in general, I think it's a kinda wack attitude to require people to take staff member's claims on trust, for calls of evidence to be considered a public challenge of some sort. I think it's pretty intuitive for someone asking for someone to be banned to need to link to evidence supporting that conclusion. That really should not be seen as an attack on you.

 

[Deagonx]

Oh and, though it was a decent while ago, he did make a sexist comment about Dread that I found distasteful, but by the time I had noticed it felt too old to make issue of, though since we are compiling a record of his behavior:

Whats funny is, Dread has been debunked so badly several times on discord but she just doesn’t stop.
Women️

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If I'm warned for something I didn't do or something wrong, I don't think it's fair to count that. I addressed how some warnings were unjustified like the case of me being blamed for something that has been resolved personally prior to any staff intervention.

I would disagree with this stance in, I think, every scenario aside from one in which that was the very last infraction. Warnings are there to improve behavior without action being taken, it does seem as though you've remained on this streak of poor behavior.

With that said, simple rudeness is a minor infraction altogether. I don't think your behavior has improved, so let me offer my perspective: I think any warning given now should serve as the last one before a banning should take place.

And in general, I think it's a kinda wack attitude to require people to take staff member's claims on trust, for calls of evidence to be considered a public challenge of some sort.

To an extent I disagree. I think it is acceptable to take people at their word to a point, although that point probably ends when bans are being called for.

 

[Tdjwo]

I would disagree with this stance in, I think, every scenario aside from one in which that was the very last infraction. Warnings are there to improve behavior without action being taken, it does seem as though you've remained on this streak of poor behavior.

With that said, simple rudeness is a minor infraction altogether. I don't think your behavior has improved, so let me offer my perspective: I think any warning given now should serve as the last one before a banning should take place.


To an extent I disagree. I think it is acceptable to take people at their word to a point, although that point probably ends when bans are being called for.

Alright. I accept the last warning then. I apologize for any issue I might have caused intentionally or not.

 

[Tdjwo]

Oh and, though it was a decent while ago, he did make a sexist comment about Dread that I found distasteful, but by the time I had noticed it felt too old to make issue of, though since we are compiling a record of his behavior:

That was a harmless joke bro. You can see the crossed slash on it. Cmon man. Why do you use every single thing to target me regardless of context? It's like you just have personal issues with Nasuverse fans in general.

 

[Deagonx]

Sexism isn't funny, it isn't harmless, and there's no context that makes it okay. The fact that you are painting this as some kind of personal bias against Nasuverse rather than a very justifiable negative reaction towards a sexist joke is completely ridiculous.

 

[Lonkitt]

That was a harmless joke bro. You can see the crossed slash on it. Cmon man. Why do you use every single thing to target me regardless of context? It's like you just have personal issues with Nasuverse fans in general.

Its better to just avoid those jokes in general. And please, don't try to make an accusation about a grudge against Nasuverse fans. It just stirs the pot

 

[Agnaa]

That was a harmless joke bro. You can see the crossed slash on it. Cmon man. Why do you use every single thing to target me regardless of context? It's like you just have personal issues with Nasuverse fans in general.

Don't make derogatory jokes about people who you aren't friends with. You don't know how they'll take it, so stay on the safe side.

Don't repeat comments like that, towards people you don't know, in the future.

 

[Tdjwo]

Its better to just avoid those jokes in general. And please, don't try to make an accusation about a grudge against Nasuverse fans. It just stirs the pot

Don't make derogatory jokes about people who you aren't friends with. You don't know how they'll take it, so stay on the safe side.

Don't repeat comments like that, towards people you don't know, in the future.

Noted.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I'd like to report @RaveeCPN for his inflammatory post in this thread.
Everyone albeit aggressive doesn't really directly insults except him.

 

[ImmortalDread]

That was a harmless joke bro. You can see the crossed slash on it. Cmon man. Why do you use every single thing to target me regardless of context? It's like you just have personal issues with Nasuverse fans in general.

The joke is not harmless, it kinda a personal biasness from your side and I don't know you. However, considering the past incidents involving that community and the harassment I've faced from outside the forum, it wouldn't be overly surprising.

 

[Deagonx]

I agree, that's unacceptable. Has he been reported or warned in the past? @TheGreatJedi13

 

[Tdjwo]

The joke is not harmless, it kinda a personal biasness from your side and I don't know you. However, considering the past incidents involving that community and the harassment I've faced from outside the forum, it wouldn't be overly surprising.

I don't understand what brought in "personal bias" here. I thought it was a joke and everyone who read it didn't take it personal. But I guess I shouldn't have made such a joke.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I agree, that's unacceptable. Has he been reported or warned in the past? @TheGreatJedi13

I do not know. I only interacted with him a couple of times and i'm in mobile so i can't really check if there were prior report against him

 

[ImmortalDread]

I checked, he has none prior to this one.