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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

Agnaa said:
Could you DM me the video? Because from the description of it, it sounds like something I remember seeing posted on tiktok months ago.
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It is this link, and I don't think that's tiktok but YouTube/com/shorts. Don't know if he uploaded it, but he clearly used it to attack Damage on his OP.
Agnaa said:
Is making a Dragon Ball thread without new info really something that should result in a 3 month ban on first offence? Same with making a snarky comment aimed at a vague, large group of people.
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Well no, simply making the thread isn't ban worthy but it is a good reason for staff to close it without discussion is the thread was literally made without merits or new points. But the actual reason for it being ban worthy is the inflammatory troll attitude and going "Oh boy, I wonder how many Dragon Ball fans would be triggered by this downgrade."
 
You can see from the watermark that it was already on TikTok. The account doesn't seem associated with the user.

You cannot compare linking a public video to SuperBearNeo, a user who created 10 videos about vsbw totaling over 3 hours of content.

But the actual reason for it being ban worthy is the inflammatory troll attitude and going "Oh boy, I wonder how many Dragon Ball fans would be triggered by this downgrade."

And as I said, I think that's just warning worthy. It does not denigrate any user in particular, it does not involve any slurs or harsh insults.
 
Seems clearly trollish behavior to me done to instigate drama. I agree with a year long ban. I am personally skeptical about new users coming and demanding an admin to be removed based on out of context scans and admitting they want to see DB fans reaction on the downgrade.
 
Are y'all serious? We've let people get off the hook for directly insulting other users just because the insults weren't too bad. And I've agreed with that.

This is a user with over 100 messages who has been around for months.

If you are seriously going to jump into 3-12 month bans over something this mild, I'm gonna note this down, and everyone should keep their eyes out for any time anyone vaguely insults a group of people. Or worse, insults someone directly.
 
Agnaa said:
You can see from the watermark that it was already on TikTok. The account doesn't seem associated with the user.

You cannot compare linking a public video to SuperBearNeo, a user who created 10 videos about vsbw totaling over 3 hours of content.
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Fully agree, SBN was a pain in the dick for a long time with what he was inciting. This user just seems misguided and a bit of an asshole. Hardly the most pleasing traits but definitely not worth going full Thor on him.

If we absolutely have to punish him, then I categorically refuse any proposal above 1 month.
 
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Hellsing was another sock of PandimensionalBeing given the trollish attitude and how badly they want Damage gone.

I also agree with AKM Sama that this isn't a case of a used to be very helpful member snapping via stress, this is a new user where being controversial and baity was among the first things they did.
 
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Agnaa said:
Are y'all serious? We've let people get off the hook for directly insulting other users just because the insults weren't too bad. And I've agreed with that.

This is a user with over 100 messages who has been around for months.
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Depends on the user. If a long time member insults somebody that's a different matter. If a new user who has only about 100 posts makes a public thread for admin removal based on out of context screenshots, that screams to me that he was trying to incite drama. In conjunction with what he said about seeing reactions of DB fans, I wouldn't put him in the same league as "every other helpful member who ever insulted somebody".
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Hellsing was another sock of PandimensionalBeing given the trollish attitude and how badly they want Damage gone.
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Alright first of all, that's really uncalled for. Second of all, not only is it also pretty conspiratorial, it is also a dangerous mindset to have. I don't think I need to tell you how fast and badly the line of logic "user is acting badly so they must be a sock of a banned user" can spiral out of control.

Third of all, aren't admins and/or bureaus capable of checking IP addressees? If you have suspicions, no need to bring them up here in such a manner when they can just be checked.
 
Crabwhale said:
Alright first of all, that's really uncalled for. Second of all, not only is it also pretty conspiratorial, it is also a dangerous mindset to have. I don't think I need to tell you how fast and badly the line of logic "user is acting badly so they must be a sock of a banned user" can spiral out of control.

Third of all, aren't admins and/or bureaus capable of checking IP addressees? If you have suspicions, no need to bring them up here in such a manner when they can just be checked.
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I also literally have access to checking IPs and Email Addresses on the Queue, however, a lot of users have VPNs they can use to bypass that. Which PandimensionalBeing is one of them. Furthermore, Pan literally makes multiple socks a month and has been harassing Damage for far too long and is far to persistent in it. Experienced staff have every right to suspect that of being a possibility at the very least.

Also, I edited my post to share support to points made by AKM Sama. This is not a case of an active and contributive user having a snap, but someone who's so new and barely contributed, and targeting both a staff member to force removal and baiting a fanbase being the first two things they did do not sit right with signs. I am the type who thinks outside the box and not inside one. Never insisted, "They must be" only noted "They could be".
 
Depends on the user. If a long time member insults somebody that's a different matter. If a new user who has only about 100 posts makes a public thread for admin removal based on out of context screenshots, that screams to me that he was trying to incite drama. In conjunction with what he said about seeing reactions of DB fans, I wouldn't put him in the same league as "every other helpful member who ever insulted somebody".

A new user with 100 posts, who doesn't know the site's process or what warnings were secretly given behind the scenes, finds out about an admin's behaviour, which HR group agreed was bad and deserved a warning, and brings it to our attention. That's not something that requires punishment, it's something that requires explanation.

And yeah, I think it's pretty awful to ban members who are just getting started on contributing for an entire year based on a vague general insult. Look back through his posts; he's tried to learn about the system and contribute. If a person whose been here for months and only now made the mildest of slip-ups can get a ban that long, how many chances are we willing to give other users?

I oppose it but if, despite this, that's the route you wanna go, then whateva.

Also, I edited my post to share support to points made by AKM Sama. This is not a case of an active and contributive user having a snap, but someone who's so new and barely contributed, and targeting both a staff member to force removal and baiting a fanbase being the first two things

That is absolutely not what they did? Seriously, go back through their contributions. They've been in threads for months, asking questions, trying to scale characters, contributing to vs threads.

This assumption that this is someone who just walked in and instantly started harassing Damage is completely incorrect.

At least base your decisions off of the truth.
 
@Agnaa; I don't think that HR discussed it. CrabWhale was the one who warned me IIRC.
 
Oh, earlier you said you were reported and warned, I didn't expect you to be reported to CrabWhale instead of HR.
 
What lol

Remind me what exactly I said, I don't remember.
 
100 posts of contributions doesn't really mean much if you ask me. I am not saying he is an alt, but even alts can easily garner 100 posts. If he were a completely new user with not even a 100 posts and all he did was make that thread, I would have suggested a permaban right off the bat. New users (or less active new users) almost never make a public thread asking to remove an admin. Based on my experiences in the past with things like these, this is sus enough to warrant a 1 year ban and I'll stick to it.
 
Crabwhale said:
What lol

Remind me what exactly I said, I don't remember.
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You said that in future I should clarify such statements as just being my opinion instead of trying to speak objectively. At least, I'm sure it was you who said that but it was a while ago.
 
@Agnaa
I am going off what I saw and my own honest opinion. However, I did check through contributions and making thread with no scans was their start. Sure cool.
That was not his only thread where he attempted a controversial downgrade however, he also spammed the "Flat Earth theory" level cosmology downgrade as Ryukama and AKM both like to call it. So there is consistent pattern about not being a good debater but also being "Forceful" about their proposals with no scans. His very first post was "Presence should be Tier 0" with no scans period. And not only that, the Dragon Ball Downgrade threads have consistent snarky attitudes and similar attitudes were on One Punch Man threads and DC upgrade threads.
The patterns still line up as a very unproductive and spiteful user and think AKM is showing the best judgement here.
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
I also literally have access to checking IPs and Email Addresses on the Queue, however, a lot of users have VPNs they can use to bypass that. Which PandimensionalBeing is one of them. Furthermore, Pan literally makes multiple socks a month and has been harassing Damage for far too long and is far to persistent in it. Experienced staff have every right to suspect that of being a possibility at the very least.
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My guy, I know it's not exactly the most commonly known thing, but Damage isn't exactly well liked in the VS community. Not a great thing to say, but it's a common enough sentiment that it ain't exactly rare for someone who might've come from somewhere else to the wiki (or even lurked) to have it.

I'm all for circumstantial evidence as a side dish, if the meat of actual evidence is there, but it just ain't. So again, I say with great haste, this line of reasoning should be dropped, not just because it's unnecessary to the current conversation, but possibly dangerous to others in the future.
 
Damage3245 said:
You said that in future I should clarify such statements as just being my opinion instead of trying to speak objectively. At least, I'm sure it was you who said that but it was a while ago.
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I'll take your word for it then, although I do not remember it. Also the w in Crabwhale is not capitalized.
 
New users (or less active new users) almost never make a public thread asking to remove an admin.

That's just because they usually don't know enough. This person took over two months to make that thread. Presumably because they saw that video and understandable had a bad reaction.

But hey, you said you're sticking to your guns on this.

His very first post was "Presence should be Tier 0" with no scans period.

I thought just asking you to look would be sufficient, but if you're just gonna present the worst side, then I'll go present the good stuff.

He initially didn't know how to post scans, and asked for help on how to do that, and soon came back with a better formed thread containing scans. He asked questions about how the system worked (did so again and again and again and again and I'm just going to stop linking those), owned up to mistaken arguments without pushing it relentlessly.

He seriously just seems like an ordinary, albeit new, user who already had some ideas about battleboarding before coming here, yet was curious about and adapted to our system. But one day found a video of an admin engaging in some bad behaviour.

These sorts of people can easily become productive members over time. It's wild that you accuse him of constantly pushing forward proposals with no scans, when that's something he did once since he didn't know how to post scans, and immediately rectified.
 
Agnaa said:
He seriously just seems like an ordinary, albeit new, user who already had some ideas about battleboarding before coming here, yet was curious about and adapted to our system. But one day found a video of an admin engaging in some bad behaviour.

These sorts of people can easily become productive members over time. It's wild that you accuse him of constantly pushing forward proposals with no scans, when that's something he did once since he didn't know how to post scans, and immediately rectified.
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Maybe it's because he literally just went back to being super pushy after some short lived development. But I still want to hear AKM and maybe Antvasima's thoughts, but I think the former made up their mind and I still agree.
 
Their recent CRTs read as nothing out of the ordinary in their OPs compared to other CRTs on the wiki, and they link a decent number of scans.

The only super pushiness I see is the one statement about triggered DB fans. I guess maybe you could stretch the OP's format of presenting counterarguments as "But {argument}" as being super pushy, but that feels even weaker to me.
 
As much as I agree with DDM and AKM, I think a month block is what's needed. If they continue the behaviour, we can increase the punishment accordingly. I think their should be a stern warning for them to read, so they know what they did wrong, and know of the consequences if they continue. That way they don't have an excuse to continue said behaviour in the future.
 
He hasn't done anything ban worthy, and he seems friendly and well behaved. Just seems really new; might need to close some over done threads such as cosmology revisions especially. Though I agree he seems quite annoying, so just an instruction is needed.
 
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