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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

Deagonx said:
On this page there are still 3 comments which quote the r-slur comment and have the picture still in it, so they should probably be removed.
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I have edited them.
Another_Council said:
I have no idea where to ask this, but this thread seemed reasonable enough. Practically 10 minutes ago, I couldn’t get into the forum because my IP Address was banned. Did I do anything wrong or…?
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It is probably an old ban that was combined with IP blocking, and then you happened to temporarily get one of those IP addresses randomly assigned at some point, as there is only a limited number of them around.

It is for this reason that we should not apply IP blocks anymore.
 
I'm just going to ping @TheGreatMaster12 here, if you want to report people. You do so here and explain, you do not fill up the report queue with every post you do not like.

Anyway, there has been some drama on this thread, in which @BlackDarkness679 and @Jasonsith were talking about certain character's status as a transgender. And by the looks of it, neither one of them had any malicious intent against those groups and were simply discussing what some common confusions between male characters who look female or actual transgender characters are. But Great Master appears to be getting rather trigger happy with reports and yelling at them and calling them "Blatantly Transphobic" when they really aren't saying anything really ill will against them.

For now, I think a warning is fine, but GreatMaster does need to stop derailing and settle down with the allegations.
 
Yeah uh

I'm gonna chime in since I was aware of that whole discussion while it was going on.

I'm just gonna quote some of the shit said there because uh

"The character is still biologically a boy aint it? So it matters how they identify?"
"I just pointed out, since a trap is still boy with girly appearance"
"So now Bridget is a biological male who identifies oneself as a female instead of just dressing up as one?"
"Still a biological male who dresses as a female no matter how the characters identify."

The use of the word trap in this context alone is ****** up, since it's based on the idea that trans women trick men into having sex with them or whatever; Which, if you didn't know, is the basis of trans panic laws that essentially make the murder of trans people legal. Everything else is still transphobic, I've literally had to deal with this exact rhetoric in very personal ways I'd rather not elaborate on.

Basically I think @TheGreatMaster12's response was 100% justified and honestly, I would've responded in the same way had I not been busy with other shit. What was said there was still transphobic as hell.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm just going to ping @TheGreatMaster12 here, if you want to report people. You do so here and explain, you do not fill up the report queue with every post you do not like.

Anyway, there has been some drama on this thread, in which @BlackDarkness679 and @Jasonsith were talking about certain character's status as a transgender. And by the looks of it, neither one of them had any malicious intent against those groups and were simply discussing what some common confusions between male characters who look female or actual transgender characters are. But Great Master appears to be getting rather trigger happy with reports and yelling at them and calling them "Blatantly Transphobic" when they really aren't saying anything really ill will against them.

For now, I think a warning is fine, but GreatMaster does need to stop derailing and settle down with the allegations.
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I don't need to explain anything, @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara has addressed the points, if you can't see the blatant transphobia then I don't have nothing to do here.
 
I think Jasonsith and Black Darkness both have the right to defend themselves.

Also, I was not familiar with the "Trap" being used as a slur word, so I could see some inflammatory posts from Darkness, but Jasonsith looked like he was just trying to describe a character and even said he had no intention of offending LGBTQ+ people.

I'd wait for more staff input + giving them both a chance to explain themselves.
 
I'll explain trap so people can just know what it is

A "Trap" is someone who looks like a female, but is actually a male, and vice versa(female who looks like a male), the most notable example of this trope to my knowledge would be Fate's Astolfo.

Unless there's been something new rising up, saying someone is a trap is not a slur it's a decently common term used to describe precisely what I said above.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I think Jasonsith and Black Darkness both have the right to defend themselves.

Also, I was not familiar with the "Trap" being used as a slur word, so I could see some inflammatory posts from Darkness, but Jasonsith looked like he was just trying to describe a character and even said he had no intention of offending LGBTQ+ people.

I'd wait for more staff input + giving them both a chance to explain themselves.
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DaReaperMan said:
I'll explain trap so people can just know what it is

A "Trap" is someone who looks like a female, but is actually a male, and vice versa(female who looks like a male), the most notable example of this trope to my knowledge would be Fate's Astolfo.

Unless there's been something new rising up, saying someone is a trap is not a slur it's a decently common term used to describe precisely what I said above.
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Yeah uh

When you have a literal, actual trans woman here telling you the context in which its used and how its implications have real-world consequences, you should maybe just ******* drop it. Also, they can defend themselves all they want. But if what they're saying is clearly bigoted against trans people, then people who that affects have the right to call that shit out.

I also don't think the "no ill intent" argument works here since they both continued with this shit even after it was brought up how those things were transphobic. You can't play the ignorance card after someone explains to you that what you're doing is offensive to a minority group.
 
DaReaperMan said:
That's new to me then, but I guess IRL nowadays is extremely oversensitive, I wasn't defending them, I was explaining what trap as a trope means.

I won't be replying again.
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Dude

The whole "trap" thing is literally used as an IRL justification for the murder of trans people. I can pull up numerous articles where people avoid conviction despite killing someone in cold blood because their justification is "well I thought they were a girl but they had a dick so I killed them".

Please kindly shut the **** up about this "oversensitive" shit.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Yeah uh

When you have a literal, actual trans woman...
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Not an argument in the slightest. There's plenty of transgender people who would strongly disagree with the idea that calling someone a trap is transphobic, or that calling people traps leads to real-life murder. I know quite a few 'literal, actual trans' people that would laugh at this. Transgender people aren't a monolith and so using your status as an argument is meaningless.
 
Ayewale said:
Not an argument in the slightest. There's plenty of transgender people who would strongly disagree with the idea that calling someone a trap is transphobic, or that calling people traps leads to real-life murder. I know quite a few 'literal, actual trans' people that would laugh at this. Transgender people aren't a monolith and so using your status as an argument is meaningless.
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Calling a transgender woman a trap is tranpshobic.
 
I wouldn't attribute to malice what could be attributed to ignorance. Let them respond, it's entirely possible they didn't realize or intend to say anything offensive (and, given the general casual and quizzical nature of the conversation, I do think that's the case).

Spamming the thread with arguments before they have a chance to defend themselves or apologize isn't going to do anything, and the rising aggression isn't going to help us reach a conclusion.

If they said offensive things and continued to discuss it after being notified, then it is report-worthy, yes. So shut up and let them make a defense for themselves.

Sincerely, a trans woman who thinks this is all a bit excessive.
 
Moritzva said:
I wouldn't attribute to malice what could be attributed to ignorance. Let them respond, it's entirely possible they didn't realize or intend to say anything offensive (and, given the general casual and quizzical nature of the conversation, I do think that's the case).

Spamming the thread with arguments before they have a chance to defend themselves or apologize isn't going to do anything, and the rising aggression isn't going to help us reach a conclusion.

If they said offensive things and continued to discuss it after being notified, then it is report-worthy, yes. So shut up and let them make a defense for themselves.

Sincerely, a trans woman who thinks this is all a bit excessive.
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I don't quite comprehend how these quotes can be attributed to ignorance:

"The character is still biologically a boy aint it? So it matters how they identify?"
"I just pointed out, since a trap is still boy with girly appearance"
"So now Bridget is a biological male who identifies oneself as a female instead of just dressing up as one?"
"Still a biological male who dresses as a female no matter how the characters identify."

But I suppose we may wait.
 
ShivaShakti said:
Calling a transgender woman a trap is tranpshobic.
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It is not. A trap is internet slang for boys who have a girly appearance. It wasn't invented to mock or demean transgender people, and it doesn't even have to do with sexuality; it's literally just jokes about feminine boys. Merely acknowledging someone's biological sex as a meaningless joke is not discriminatory, at all.

And the spiel about how usage of the word trap leads to real life murder is asinine. Nothing against Mad Dog, I can tell they're really personally offended, but holy shit is that a reach.
 
Ayewale said:
It is not. A trap is internet slang for boys who have a girly appearance. It wasn't invented to mock or demean transgender people, and it doesn't even have to do with sexuality; it's literally just jokes about feminine boys. Merely acknowledging someone's biological sex as a meaningless joke is not discriminatory, at all.

And the spiel about how usage of the word trap leads to real life murder is asinine. Nothing against Mad Dog, I can tell they're really personally offended, but holy shit is that a reach.
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Referring to a transgender woman as a "Trap" is essentially stating they are not female, but they are male. Or that they are "pretending" to be female. It is tasteless.
 
ShivaShakti said:
I don't quite comprehend how these quotes can be attributed to ignorance:

"The character is still biologically a boy aint it? So it matters how they identify?"
"I just pointed out, since a trap is still boy with girly appearance"
"So now Bridget is a biological male who identifies oneself as a female instead of just dressing up as one?"
"Still a biological male who dresses as a female no matter how the characters identify."

But I suppose we may wait.
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There's not way that Jasonsith did it ''out of ignorance'', considering how much they have say shit like this before and have been called out for that, and haven't changed at all.
 
I agree with Moritzva.

Just because someone is part of a group that does indeed face a lot of discrimination/prejudice/bigotry, ect doesn't mean everyone in said group is lacking in thick skin and social maturity. Some people are indeed open minded enough to know that one, accidents happen, two, attempting something that has no motive beyond a simple dictionary definition or description of fictional characters being equated to bigotry is an excessive interpretation, and three being naïve or oblivious in itself isn't a sin.

Just give them a chance to speak for themselves and the staff will evaluate the issue instead of bombarding topic further.
 
First of all, i didnt use the word trap for anything offensive towards any group, trap is a term used in anime/manga community which means a character looks female but is a male, Reaper gave an example above when he explained, wasnt even aware it had a meaning outside that irl and that its taken in a offensive way, im only familiar with the term from anime and manga, so i didnt say trap as an insult there, let alone didnt even knew that its offensive for trans either

Second of all, i just asked the person who brought up the topic in that thread there on what he pointed just if it still really counted, since as far as im aware of the character lore in the series, it was a male dressing as a female, which again is a trope in anime/manga franchises and medias influenced from such, with Guilty Gear being an anime-esque series, so i dont get why this was taken as some ill intentioned case, didnt insult the character nor what the character is, especially not for any IRL topic for such subjects

Third of all, this great master user from what i remember was a new user in this forum and on that thread too and even announced themselves as new and made this situation seem like it was attacking a group irl, the way he was talking and adressing me there i thought he was just doing it on purpose to troll, then i said in the case he really meant it seriously how is anything i said transphobic to begin with, he misunderstood big time, then i see after waking up in here all else

DarkDragonMedeus and Moritzva understood the situation when the topic was brought up here, but i see a few others come here to make it seem the opposite and have seem like a bad case
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
First of all, i didnt use the word trap for anything offensive towards any group, trap is a term used in anime/manga community which means a character looks female but is a male, Reaper gave an example above when he explained, wasnt even aware it had a meaning outside that irl and that its taken in a offensive way, im only familiar with the term from anime and manga, so i didnt say trap as an insult there, let alone didnt even knew that its offensive for trans either

Second of all, i just asked the person who brought up the topic in that thread there on what he pointed just if it still really counted, since as far as im aware of the character lore in the series, it was a male dressing as a female, which again is a trope in anime/manga franchises and medias influenced from such, with Guilty Gear being an anime-esque series, so i dont get why this was taken as some ill intentioned case, didnt insult the character nor what the character is, especially not for any IRL topic for such subjects

Third of all, this great master user from what i remember was a new user in this forum and on that thread too and even announced themselves as new and made this situation seem like it was attacking a group irl, the way he was talking and adressing me there i thought he was just doing it on purpose to troll, then i said in the case he really meant it seriously how is anything i said transphobic to begin with, he misunderstood big time, then i see after waking up in here all else

DarkDragonMedeus and Moritzva understood the situation when the topic was brought up here, but i see a few others come here to make it seem the opposite and have seem like a bad case
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Thanks for commenting, BlackDarkness.

Apologies for the language and general hostility of the above, but with the above seen, do you understand why what you said came off badly? What about it was problematic, and what do you plan on doing in the future?

Edit for context in case it wasn't clear from above: As of recently, it has been established that the character in question is transgender and identifies as female, not male (so 'trap' wouldn't be accurate, even if it previously was in earlier games before this).
 
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BlackDarkness679 said:
Yah i got the gist why they got offended and they took in the wrong

I guess avoiding such topics to begin with is the solution, since some people take it negatively even when thats not the intention
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I wouldn't like that to be the takeaway here. While it wasn't your intent, it came off badly to them, and the subject is a very sensitive matter to a lot of people. I'm sure you can think of an occasion where you were offended or hurt by someone when they weren't trying to do so, and this is just like that.

The preferred takeaway is to be a bit more careful when speaking about the gender identity of characters, methinks.
 
Yes, this seems like a case of misunderstanding. No ill-will seems to be involved. As Mori said, just be careful when using words that can come across as offensive depending on the context even if that was not the intention.
 
DaReaperMan said:
I'll explain trap so people can just know what it is

A "Trap" is someone who looks like a female, but is actually a male, and vice versa(female who looks like a male), the most notable example of this trope to my knowledge would be Fate's Astolfo
Click to expand...
The etymology "trap" also comes because back in the day trans women used to be called a such because in night clubs and internet forums and whatnot, it was assumed by morons that they were just purposely to manipulate other males pushing onto them to have sex with them by looking feminine, as such it was solely a fetish thing or a manipulation tactic against straight people. That is just, the core origin of the term, you literally only have to go 10 years back for it being exactly used in this respect, the "it's a trap" meme for example.

Fetish circles still use the term because... it is a fetish, the name comes from a fetish, but like I don't think I need to elaborate on the sheer stupidity to refer to a regular trans person by a term they're fetishized by, hell a term they're fetishized as being manipulative and perverted lol. Equivalent would be someone calling all women ever as *****.

Don't care too much in regards to punishment since it being used derogatorily modern days is kinda uncommon in most spheres, just don't do it lmao, it's not exactly an innocent term, it originating from 4chan alone should be enough to tell you that.
 
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Well I am likely late to this party.

First, I have no intent in inducing any transphobia.

Second, from my point of view the discussion seems mostly focused on technically defining conditions to be transsexual or transgender or other sex and gender identities. Rather than defaming any character and the fanbases of such. However I do see some finger pointing issues, which I believe I am out of such drama.

As a matter of prudence, as soon as I see some finger pointing issues, I have moved away from discussing on the gender identification/outlook issue (as this may get the discussion "derailed") and have focused on exploring other close connections between that character and the possible opponents against such character in future episodes (which is within the topic of the thread).

If you really have more questions please feel free to contact me. Otherwise I am back to work on my calculations and other real life issues.
 
Moritzva said:
I wouldn't like that to be the takeaway here. While it wasn't your intent, it came off badly to them, and the subject is a very sensitive matter to a lot of people. I'm sure you can think of an occasion where you were offended or hurt by someone when they weren't trying to do so, and this is just like that.

The preferred takeaway is to be a bit more careful when speaking about the gender identity of characters, methinks.
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Problem remaining on Bridget (Guilty Gear): do we need a carefully controlled CRT in discussing the time point of gender identification change of the said character and update the profile according? Otherwise people will accidentally step into such landmine.

And... I assume no warning to everyone just a kind reminder?
 
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