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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

SSGSS_Golden_Super_Perfect_Cell said:
StrymUltra and others have been lying to you about Sean for a while now.
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Uh... no

StrymUltra's first incident was on May 11th when he claimed Sean was derailing his thread. Assuming this wasn’t the work of one of those Sean clones everyone made in response to his heavy presence in the Pokemon vs Digimon Death Battle comment section to say that was really him, all he did was list everything wrong with the evidence. Yes, it did start a fight, but all he did to do so was list everything he believed to be wrong with the upgrade. Furthermore, Sean himself has stated that derailing was not his intention, rather to mainly list what he believed to be wrong, with the mention of derailing being a quip about how he affects people whether he wants it or not (admittedly he did take enjoyment from it but people can be amused by something they didn’t intend to happen). This is reflected in the actual screenshots; “...I’m not trolling or anything, things just derail.”
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Why would the act of some Sean sock not being involved in this case be an assumption? It really sounds like you're trying unecessarily to make the readers feel guilty over Sean's situation with a outlandish claim out of nowhere with nothing to back that up beyond mere speculation at best.

While Strym may have laughed at some of his arguments (Which isn't polite and all), Sean did still show blatant antibias to the proposed changes on the thread with poor explanations at best that were explicitly uncalled for, multiple times in fact, and should have been kept for another thread, yet he continued derailing, so even while playing devil's advocate this doesn't hold up.

His intentions may have been better than this, but it still shows a deficiency on expressing social thoughts in an appropiate manner, which if anything implies further that Sean is not suited for this community.

Furthermore, it is rather ironic that StrymUltra claimed Sean to be biased against him when he himself sent Sean these messages, including a claim that he removed some of Sean’s calcs from the verse page with zero reasoning behind it or any counter in the comments of the blog posts. This is the revision where such removal occurred.
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Thing is, as it has shown time and time again, Sean keeps trying to "help" by disrupting the community that dedicates their effort and will over managing these pages, namely with poorly done pages, calculations, and even a physiology page, and it doesn't help that he didn't show development on himself as we've tried to help him improve (also including the pages he tries to do/improve).

In fact, these scans shown are straight up debunking themselves, Strym gave a clear explanation, and he could easily just contact the calc group members that originally accepted at first his calculation if he was in doubt of this, and the act of threatening Strym on removing what he has done with CRTs clearly comes in a joking manner with the "hehe" at the end of the second one, which was clearly a continuation of the first one anyways.

Further down, ProfessorKukui4Life states that Sean openly insulted SamanPatou. While that is true, what he didn’t mention was that Sean was under the assumption that Saman had deleted his Pokemon Physiology page because only he personally disagreed with it, and he apologized when he found out there was in fact reasoning behind it. Again, this was after 2 whole discussions on only Pokemon Physiology stuff over the course of more than a year (December 4th 2020 to April 8th 2021), so no wonder he was mad when he thought it was deleted for nothing.
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His reason for being mad may have been justified in this instance, but it still wasn't the best way to express his issues on this, this is a quite minor case either way, and doesn't really support his case either, and it doesn't help that his Pokémon Physiology page was constantly rushed with questionable at best powers and abilities with next to no approval from others to begin with.

Even if Sean just said it aggravated, it literally should not matter as VSBW rules state that offsite behavior is irrelevant unless they destabilize the site by creating drama (which he didn’t do, the screenshot did more damage than anything Sean said), threaten someone (which he didn’t do), harass someone (which he didn’t do, Saman is not even in the Pokemon Scan Server), engage in criminal activity (which he REALLY didn’t do), or impersonated someone (again, didn’t do).
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He did threaten SamanPatou by calling him a little (expletive), plus this is still mean as you've said (which doesn't help), and this account is already suspect of impersonating a sockpuppet, needless to say, there's better ways to appeal a ban than doing a sock to speak for yourself, you DM a staff member in Community Central for this stuff, but let's remain on good faith over the OP of this post not being a sock of Sean for the sake of the argument.

Strym’s second incident was on November 18th, which features StrymUltra’s attempt to get Sean banned for life.

First off, this is a direct result of the age-old concept of trying to get a rise out of someone, screenshotting the results, and cropping out the context to make them look bad. Not sure why Strym is just now reporting him for something that happened 5 months prior, but in this scenario put yourself in Sean’s shoes. He had just basically been stabbed in the back by some of the only people he considered to be fellow debaters, who then teased him all day for what Strym did. No wonder he was mad. I’m sure a lot of debaters with full rights here would say something like that if they were banned overnight by the people he thought were his friends. Also the little “K*ll yourself” comment seemed to be more dismissive of what Ryandbeast was saying (the guy who initially stabbed him in the back by sending the screenshots to StrymUltra) than an example of Sean’s personality.
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In the best case scenario one would provide proof over such scans being manipulated and whatever to claim that Strym is doing stuff against Sean for the sake of it, show your so-claimed context if you're so sure on the scans provided in that thread being better in context, until then this just supports that Sean should remain distanced from the wiki's activities.

Next up, the claim that Sean said StrymUltra manipulates information. Not only is that not true based on the screenshot, he said he wanks Pokemon, but is that even false? It’s no secret that Sean was heavily against 2-A Pokemon (and was even working on a debunk at the time Strym made sure he was permabanned). Even if you could say this is an Appeal to Motive, Appeal to Motives aren’t rule breaks on this wiki.
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You're saying that Sean's claim over Strym manipulatin information being false directly supports Strym and goes against your ideals, and per the current standings, yes, his perspective over Pokémon's statistics are false for our purposes, not that it changes anything here regardless. A large debunk blog is a large task and all, but at the same time being banned doesn't stop him from working on it then contacting others to evaluate it and check if the ideas are remotely valid to improve the site.

Next, the claim that Sean said Executor_N0 shouldn’t be allowed in the Pokemon Scan Server for being a Digimon fan. That, too, is not at all supported by the screenshots. Forgive me, but I don’t exactly see why the act of asking why a Digimon debater who is primarily known for debating Digimon is in the Pokemon Scan Server is such a terrible offense. And yes Sean hates Digimon, does that mean we should like him less as a person?

After that, StyrmUltra’s next claim is that Sean was going to get rid of 2-A Pokemon and report Strym with screenshots. And this, I wholeheartedly agree with. Sean was, as I mentioned above, working on a 2-A debunk CRT. Furthermore, I was never in the Pokemon Scan Server so Sean did in fact send me the screenshots where Strym admitted to deleting his calcs for no reason (though I don’t know if there’s more). But here’s the thing. Planning to post content revision threads and reporting users are both things that average people do daily on VS Battles Wiki and neither are remotely bad things.
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It is a terrible offense because it's blatant unecessary bias against a fanbase, this is as childish as those that go on console wars just because they find themselves as better than everyone else, which is also meaningly egocentrical, and overall doesn't speak well of Sean's psychology to consider he has improved to help on this community.

Read the answer above this one for the second part over the downgrade plans, this is quite redundant and the above covers it about the same.

Hoo boy… the last one. I find it laughable that ProfessorKukui4Life says that Sean trying to get StrymUltra banned with out of context screenshots isn’t acceptable, only for him to turn around and support StrymUltra doing that exact same thing to Sean. Twice. Furthermore, this may be rather controversial but if the purpose of a server is to promote a blatant falsehood, then it shouldn’t exist. If Sean actually did have sufficient reasoning to remove Pokemon’s 2-A rating without any sort of deception (I’ve been around Sean on Discord a lot, he doesn’t lie about evidence) then we should let him.

And here’s the kicker. Sean never claimed that his Strym report would be false. I don’t know who first brought up Sean being intent on murder or suicide either because it has nothing to do with the reports or their screenshots.

And lastly, StrymUltra’s claim that Sean’s Pokemon Physiology profile was debunked… or something. There were a couple heated discussions here and there on his discussion threads, but that’s about it. It was only removed from the site because Saman wanted people to discuss it more (although any more changes could have been done via CRT, but I digress).
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Again, showcase the "context" that would imply that these claims are better in context and they aren't making claims up, which also supports that he's not to be trusted.
If anything you're twisting scans with claims reliant on someone not reading to suit your purposes, the purpose of the server isn't to spread falsehood, it's to develop the community dedicated to indexing of the Pokémon series, and that topic wasn't even brought up in that screenshot regardless, and instead explains why Sean's a burden to everyone.

Uh... yes, he did clearly ask someone to kill themselves directly, it was even the first thing linked on the Rule Violation Report list section you linked over Sean

A good portion of the powers included were questionable (for example, using powers only avaliable while a Pokémon is tamed by a trainer? Physiology pages list inherent abilities of a group/species, not acting as a composite version hub), and he didn't bother doing a proper CRT over the topic in an appropiate manner, even I was in support of such page existing, but he kept trying to do that in an inappropiate manner out of a lack of coordination with others, and as a wiki this is crucial for performing activities in a proper way, which showcases Sean's inability to contribute to the site, sadly.

I’m not saying Sean is an amazing person. He frequently butts heads with other debaters, especially Pokemon debaters, and a lot of them even call what he does with Pokemon and it’s debating scene unhealthy for him or even “scary”... for some reason. Others claim he’s never changed in the past year, but that’s not true, because he’s met me, and I feel blessed to be his friend. He is not someone who deserves to be banned.
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An user can act very differently IRL compared to the internet, and while he may have hidden potential, he's yet to show any significant improvement on this regard to help this site, so I'm sorry, but I think it's for the best that he doesn't come back here. If anything suggest him to go to other communities like Character Stats and Profiles where he can make pages of whatever he desires with no limitations of others.
 
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I need to go to sleep soon, and would like other staff members to comment more, but could both sides please calm down and avoid trying to fill out the RVR thread any further than it already was?

But anyway, it seems rather cut and dry to me that Sean is the offender. The signs are just obvious; if you have the same IP Address and/or Email Address and you have a habit of basically trying to simp/agree with everything the person you're connected says; including the upside down viewpoint of the typical Bad Guy/Good Guy situation. Then those line up as the most typical sock connections.
 
I believe regular users, even those in the report itself, don't need to participate any longer, this is derailing and repetitive, all the points are essentially made unless i'm missing something (and Crab feel free to get to reporting folks 0w0). Any corrections you want made, ask a staff member on their wall to represent it for you on the thread.

It's honestly unrealistic as shit for two people to have the exact same IP addresses unless they're living with each other, since even every 2 weeks your network most likely changes IP addresses, and sockpuppeting maliciously is a pretty bad offense, so I'd say Cell's a sockpuppet. Can't be the judge if Sean's past actions imply "blocked", however, since unfamiliar with the user

@SSGSS_Golden_Super_Perfect_Cell and for the record what you SHOULD'VE done, was ask for a reappeal on a staff member's wall, on Community Central.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But anyway, it seems rather cut and dry to me that Sean is the offender. The signs are just obvious; if you have the same IP Address and/or Email Address and you have a habit of basically trying to simp/agree with everything the person you're connected says; including the upside down viewpoint of the typical Bad Guy/Good Guy situation. Then those line up as the most typical sock connections.
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To add another one, this account, before commenting here, was making posts about a Pokémon vs Digimon discussion in 2016, to then "awaken" to defend Sean. Given that Sean is the first one to come in a Pokémon vs Digimon discussion, SSGSS Cell is more than confirmed being a Sean's sock TBF.
 
This thread below got derailed by some users, mainly because @Pain_to12 just stated that Tsunade has Low-Godly regen, wich is a mistake of course, and people got mad with that. @Nightmare_Bloodfallen started with personal attacks and @God900 idk why he is doing that, but he is just acting rude with everyone since he joined the thread, and everyone keep discussing this despite not being the point of the thread and I've asked them to stop with this bullshit a few times, didn't happen, so reporting now.

Just warn them please.

 
Weren't you the one who advocated for temp banning Sean from the Pokemon Scan Server for 30 days and then behind his back making it permanent?
Bobsican said:
Why would the act of some Sean sock not being involved in this case be an assumption? It really sounds like you're trying unecessarily to make the readers feel guilty over Sean's situation with a outlandish claim out of nowhere with nothing to back that up beyond mere speculation at best.
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Literally no idea how you could "feel guilty" about what I said.
Bobsican said:
While Strym may have laughed at some of his arguments (Which isn't polite and all), Sean did still show blatant antibias to the proposed changes on the thread with poor explanations at best that were explicitly uncalled for, multiple times in fact, and should have been kept for another thread, yet he continued derailing, so even while playing devil's advocate this doesn't hold up.

His intentions may have been better than this, but it still shows a deficiency on expressing social thoughts in an appropiate manner, which if anything implies further that Sean is not suited for this community.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about "not suited for this community"? You're not even a mod, and we literally almost barely had Sean back.
Bobsican said:
Thing is, as it has shown time and time again, Sean keeps trying to "help" by disrupting the community that dedicates their effort and will over managing these pages, namely with poorly done pages, calculations, and even a physiology page, and it doesn't help that he didn't show development on himself as we've tried to help him improve (also including the pages he tries to do/improve).

In fact, these scans shown are straight up debunking themselves, Strym gave a clear explanation, and he could easily just contact the calc group members that originally accepted at first his calculation if he was in doubt of this, and the act of threatening Strym on removing what he has done with CRTs clearly comes in a joking manner with the "hehe" at the end of the second one, which was clearly a continuation of the first one anyways.
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Ah yes, what poorly done pages.

And there's the hypocrisy. Nothing can convince you that Sean wasn't bloodlusted when dealing with Strym but the moment Strym says "hehe" it was all a joke and you're wrong for thinking he was trying to lord over someone.
Bobsican said:
His reason for being mad may have been justified in this instance, but it still wasn't the best way to express his issues on this, this is a quite minor case either way, and doesn't really support his case either, and it doesn't help that his Pokémon Physiology page was constantly rushed with questionable at best powers and abilities with next to no approval from others to begin with.
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"constantly rushed"
Click to expand...

Took over a year to finally get posted only to be intercepted and taken down again
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Bobsican said:
He did threaten SamanPatou by calling him a little (expletive), plus this is still mean as you've said (which doesn't help), and this account is already suspect of impersonating a sockpuppet, needless to say, there's better ways to appeal a ban than doing a sock to speak for yourself, you DM a staff member in Community Central for this stuff, but let's remain on good faith over the OP of this post not being a sock of Sean for the sake of the argument.
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That's not a threat, also if there were better ways I'm certain Sean has lost interest.
Bobsican said:
In the best case scenario one would provide proof over such scans being manipulated and whatever to claim that Strym is doing stuff against Sean for the sake of it, show your so-claimed context if you're so sure on the scans provided in that thread being better in context, until then this just supports that Sean should remain distanced from the wiki's activities.
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...Except Sean never claimed that Strym manipulates information? He said that he wanks Pokemon, i.e. 2-A CT.
Bobsican said:
You're saying that Sean's claim over Strym manipulatin information being false directly supports Strym and goes against your ideals, and per the current standings, yes, his perspective over Pokémon's statistics are false for our purposes, not that it changes anything here regardless. A large debunk blog is a large task and all, but at the same time being banned doesn't stop him from working on it then contacting others to evaluate it and check if the ideas are remotely valid to improve the site.
Click to expand...
Dude, Strym said Sean said he manipulates information, not Sean himself. Who would he contact? More people who think he isn't trustworthy from bogus reports?

Bobsican said:
It is a terrible offense because it's blatant unecessary bias against a fanbase, this is as childish as those that go on console wars just because they find themselves as better than everyone else, which is also meaningly egocentrical, and overall doesn't speak well of Sean's psychology to consider he has improved to help on this community.
Click to expand...
Well, he is a prominent figure in Pokemon vs Digimon This is VS Battles Wiki, are you seriously going to claim that egotistical people don't use this site?
Bobsican said:
Again, showcase the "context" that would imply that these claims are better in context and they aren't making claims up,which also supports that he's not to be trusted. If anything you're twisting scans with claims reliant on someone not reading to suit your purposes, the purpose of the server isn't to spread falsehood, it's to develop the community dedicated to indexing of the Pokémon series, and that topic wasn't even brought up in that screenshot regardless, and instead explains why Sean's a burden to everyone.
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Um, I literally did show the context. It's right in the links. Also the Pokemon Scan Server hasn't really produced much other than very shaky 2-A evidence.
Bobsican said:
A good portion of the powers included were questionable (for example, using powers only avaliable while a Pokémon is tamed by a trainer? Physiology pages list inherent abilities of a group/species, not acting as a composite version hub), and he didn't bother doing a proper CRT over the topic in an appropiate manner, even I was in support of such page existing, but he kept trying to do that in an inappropiate manner out of a lack of coordination with others, and as a wiki this is crucial for performing activities in a proper way, which showcases Sean's inability to contribute to the site, sadly.
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Um, there were 3 CRTs. And speaking of lack of coordination, how was your coordination with him? You keep spouting stuff like "Sean is unable to produce good content" like you REALLY want us to believe you.
Bobsican said:
An user can act very differently IRL compared to the internet, and while he may have hidden potential, he's yet to show any significant improvement on this regard to help this site, so I'm sorry, but I think it's for the best that he doesn't come back here. If anything suggest him to go to other communities like Character Stats and Profiles where he can make pages of whatever he desires with no limitations of others.
Click to expand...
How much of him have you even seen that isn't just him addressing that the server hasn't talked about much other than the Creation Trio? Which is any of him after you banned him? And why are you now trying to condemn him to a place that users of this site legitimately treat as a joke?
 
StrymULTRA said:
To add another one, this account, before commenting here, was making posts about a Pokémon vs Digimon discussion in 2016, to then "awaken" to defend Sean. Given that Sean is the first one to come in a Pokémon vs Digimon discussion, SSGSS Cell is more than confirmed being a Sean's sock TBF.
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If I was Sean's sock, why would I make this thread at all? Why wouldn't I just post every profile that Sean has ever made from ban till now with no one the wiser? In fact why wouldn't I have done this from the moment he got banned like 7 months ago?
 
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M3X said:
This thread below got derailed by some users, mainly because @Pain_to12 just stated that Tsunade has Low-Godly regen, wich is a mistake of course, and people got mad with that. @Nightmare_Bloodfallen started with personal attacks and @God900 idk why he is doing that, but he is just acting rude with everyone since he joined the thread, and everyone keep discussing this despite not being the point of the thread and I've asked them to stop with this bullshit a few times, didn't happen, so reporting now.

Just warn them please.

Click to expand...
For the record, closing that thread for now to avoid further destabilization, we'll reopen it once the currenr drama sorts out on the RVR, since as you can see, it's wildin'.
 
SSGSS_Golden_Super_Perfect_Cell said:
Weren't you the one who advocated for temp banning Sean from the Pokemon Scan Server for 30 days and then behind his back making it permanent?
Click to expand...
Uh, no. To correct you and clarify, Strym wasn’t the one who advocated for this. It was me after I saw the discussion on temporarily banning Sean from the server at a later time and not being present for it earlier.

And I advocated for the perma ban, which by the way, everyone else in the server unanimously agreed with after seeing my argument for the ban being permanent, because the constant banter and disruption from Sean was getting beyond annoying and all of us have gotten sick and tired of it.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Uh, no. To correct you and clarify, Strym wasn’t the one who advocated for this. It was me after I saw the discussion on temporarily banning Sean from the server at a later time and not being present for it earlier.

And I advocated for the perma ban, which by the way, everyone else in the server unanimously agreed with after seeing my argument for the ban being permanent, because the constant banter and disruption from Sean was getting beyond annoying and all of us have gotten sick and tired of it.
Click to expand...
"Constant" banter and disruption? The server's not even constantly active from what I hear, much less only when Sean joins a convo.
 
SSGSS seems to be a sock in my book. This is my official take after parsing what was said above. I won't pretend to recall the specifics of Sean's rule violations, but I can say the evidence provided in this still seems fairly damning. The whole IP address thing also is incredibly off. Seems DDM agrees which is frankly enough of a consensus to me. If the ban needs undone later, it can be done, but for now I will avoid further textwalls and pull the trigger.

Move along, everybody, no need to further flood the RVT with this drudgery. Thanks.
 
M3X said:
This thread below got derailed by some users, mainly because @Pain_to12 just stated that Tsunade has Low-Godly regen, wich is a mistake of course, and people got mad with that. @Nightmare_Bloodfallen started with personal attacks and @God900 idk why he is doing that, but he is just acting rude with everyone since he joined the thread, and everyone keep discussing this despite not being the point of the thread and I've asked them to stop with this bullshit a few times, didn't happen, so reporting now.

Just warn them please.

Click to expand...
Anyways this needs further addressing now
 
M3X said:
This thread below got derailed by some users, mainly because @Pain_to12 just stated that Tsunade has Low-Godly regen, wich is a mistake of course, and people got mad with that. @Nightmare_Bloodfallen started with personal attacks and @God900 idk why he is doing that, but he is just acting rude with everyone since he joined the thread, and everyone keep discussing this despite not being the point of the thread and I've asked them to stop with this bullshit a few times, didn't happen, so reporting now.

Just warn them please.

Click to expand...
I wrote a message, but would appreciate help from other staff with this:

 
Mr._Bambu said:
SSGSS seems to be a sock in my book. This is my official take after parsing what was said above. I won't pretend to recall the specifics of Sean's rule violations, but I can say the evidence provided in this still seems fairly damning. The whole IP address thing also is incredibly off. Seems DDM agrees which is frankly enough of a consensus to me. If the ban needs undone later, it can be done, but for now I will avoid further textwalls and pull the trigger.

Move along, everybody, no need to further flood the RVT with this drudgery. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Thank you for helping out.

Thank you to Impress as well.
 
I would like to make the call to ban KingBaller06 from this wiki because I've tried talking to and even put some sense into him and he's just a total jerkface who denies it! He has insulted both me and @Antvasima, he disrespects the wiki's rules, he denies the scandal Toei is in, he's overly argumentative, he doesn't respect the work that mangaka put into their efforts, and his logic is total BS!!

You can see for yourself here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:KingBallerLBJ?threadId=4400000000003298142

I really don't think the wiki would benefit from having as a member at all, too toxic, it might be better to just have him out of our noses!
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I would like to make the call to ban KingBaller06 from this wiki because I've tried talking to and even put some sense into him and he's just a total jerkface who denies it! He has insulted both me and @Antvasima, he disrespects the wiki's rules, he denies the scandal Toei is in, he's overly argumentative, he doesn't respect the work that mangaka put into their efforts, and his logic is total BS!!

You can see for yourself here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:KingBallerLBJ?threadId=4400000000003298142

I really don't think the wiki would benefit from having as a member at all, too toxic, it might be better to just have him out of our noses!
Click to expand...
You are definitely not innocent there.

"You're lazy!! You're a primadonna!! You're a sociopath! You're a coward!"

I honestly don't know what to make of this besides both parties are at fault.
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I would like to make the call to ban KingBaller06 from this wiki because I've tried talking to and even put some sense into him and he's just a total jerkface who denies it! He has insulted both me and @Antvasima, he disrespects the wiki's rules, he denies the scandal Toei is in, he's overly argumentative, he doesn't respect the work that mangaka put into their efforts, and his logic is total BS!!

You can see for yourself here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:KingBallerLBJ?threadId=4400000000003298142

I really don't think the wiki would benefit from having as a member at all, too toxic, it might be better to just have him out of our noses!
Click to expand...
The guy literally did nothing wrong... You kept talking to him while he didn't want to do anything with you and never attacked you while you did...
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
He has insulted both me and @Antvasima
Click to expand...
He didn't
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
he denies the scandal Toei is in
Click to expand...
That's his opinion has nothing to with the rules
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
he's overly argumentative
Click to expand...
He were the one wanting to leave while you just kept messaging him
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
he doesn't respect the work that mangaka put into their efforts
Click to expand...
Has nothing to do with rules and opinion
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
and his logic is total BS!!
Click to expand...
His opinion and has nothing against the rules.
 
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While KingBallerLBJ was a bit of an instigator. And he does sounds very Narrow-Minded with the whole "Anime is always better and is the one that should be used because it's better". He sounds like of of those Anti-Canonicity people. And he was being very argumentative. Honestly, the way Hagane retaliated in the end was much really awful.
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
And he does sounds very Narrow-Minded with the whole "Anime is always better and is the one that should be used because it's better".
Click to expand...
He never said it should be used because it's better... He just personally likes anime more then manga and is only stubborn about it which doesn't break any rules. 🤷‍♂️

I will also say anime is always better then manga because I get more emotions with anime then manga... That shouldn't be rule breaking.
 
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