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Its a part of the Living Tribunal so it could be a key on the profile
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Revising Marvel's Abstracts (Part 1 of ???) (STAFF ONLY)
- Thread starter Ultima_Reality
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I know that. But as far as i see, that aspect scales above multiversal death. Which is pretty nutty.
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I haven't read up on the current scaling for Marvel so does the Living Tribunal scale above multiverses death or not?
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I think so, yes.
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Would you be willing to evaluate this please? To me, giving this high ratings for skyfathers and universal abstract entities seems far too inconsistent in relation to the scale that they are almost consistently portrayed at.
Would you be willing to evaluate this please? To me, giving this high ratings for skyfathers and universal abstract entities seems far too inconsistent in relation to the scale that they are almost consistently portrayed at.
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Odin consistently shakes the multiverse and was equal to dormammu who stalemated eternity.
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Also, on the unrelated note, living tribunal that was killed by beyonders was an M body as far as i can tell.
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Well…
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Yes?
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I also don't think it's inconsistent:
- Marvel consistently talks about higher-dimensional states when it comes to the Marvel Cosmology throughout practically all of it's cosmology depictions, be it in the comics or guidebooks that encompass and reference several continuities, which would scale to the Universal Abstracts for embodying totality as mentioned in the OP. Heck Authors in quite a few occassions interconnect cosmologies between one another which one of them at least depicted higher-dimensions in some regard.
- Celestials are described as higher-dimensional on far more than a few depictions,
- Heck the main cosmic entities are all described to enact on transfinite levels of existence like 3 separate instances in 3 separate continuities.
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OP seems fine, nice work!
This also upgrades people like Classic Dormammu, the Infinity Gauntlet, and God-Emperor Doom to High 1-B, right?
Especially Classic Dormammu, since he has a lot of Eternity-level Scaling.
1. Implied to have killed The Trinity of Ashes and Slorioth, who rival the Vishanti, and threaten Eternity just by existing, respectively.
2. One-shot Giraud, a host to the Phoenix Force who wounded Eternity.
3. Although he was inferior, his weakest incarnation was able to hold his own against Eternity, with the clash threatening to destroy them both.
4. Is far stronger than Strange with prep, who once matched Adam Warlock with the IG (albeit temporarily).
Dormammu scales above all the Celestials, who clapped a heavily amped Destroyer Odin.
Speaking of the Celestials, does this CRT make them destroying the First Firmament in the past no longer an outlier?
This also upgrades people like Classic Dormammu, the Infinity Gauntlet, and God-Emperor Doom to High 1-B, right?
Especially Classic Dormammu, since he has a lot of Eternity-level Scaling.
1. Implied to have killed The Trinity of Ashes and Slorioth, who rival the Vishanti, and threaten Eternity just by existing, respectively.
2. One-shot Giraud, a host to the Phoenix Force who wounded Eternity.
3. Although he was inferior, his weakest incarnation was able to hold his own against Eternity, with the clash threatening to destroy them both.
4. Is far stronger than Strange with prep, who once matched Adam Warlock with the IG (albeit temporarily).
EHHHHH...
Dormammu scales above all the Celestials, who clapped a heavily amped Destroyer Odin.
Speaking of the Celestials, does this CRT make them destroying the First Firmament in the past no longer an outlier?
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Neutral on the Skyfather stuff. But I'm pretty sure we can just not remotely scale them at all considering Galactus' fight with Mephisto (who has as many statements about being Skyfather level) and the combined Skyfathers getting stomped by Celestials, who are typically presented as below M-Bodies by a significant degree.
Anyway, I sort of agree with this, but I lean more towards much more towards neutral because I'm not entirely comfortable with Universal Eternities transcending subspace.
It's worth noting that a Skrull's space-time warp is stated to pass through infinite dimensions (in an obviously spatio-temporal context) in order to get from point a to b. This isn't an argument, just more infinite-d stuff.
Anyway, I sort of agree with this, but I lean more towards much more towards neutral because I'm not entirely comfortable with Universal Eternities transcending subspace.
It's worth noting that a Skrull's space-time warp is stated to pass through infinite dimensions (in an obviously spatio-temporal context) in order to get from point a to b. This isn't an argument, just more infinite-d stuff.
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That was never an outlier never mind that the first firmament is not even High 1-B.
Celestials has M bodies.
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- Classic Dormammu would be upgraded yes.
- Uh as mentioned in the OP the Slorioth aren't scaling to Eternity explicitly but they have their own High 1-B stuff to scale to
- I do believe that even if The Skyfathers don't get upgraded they should upscale to the Cosmic Cubes considering Kubik viewing Mephisto as a significant threat to him and Cosmos, and Odin is genuinely in Mephisto's tier
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Nah, Celestials are not that much stronger than skyfathers at all. Odin still managed to damage them
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Celestials are also described as platonic forms as well.
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Should be yes
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Low 1-A, more specifically. For the Infinity Gauntlet, there is a good argument to be made for it being flat-out 1-A, seeing as Adam Warlock's potential battle with the Living Tribunal's M-Body was going to wreck the Dimension of Manifestations, which is stated often to encompass and transcend the multiverse. That said, stuff like Thanos passing out after he sealed Eternity and the Infinity Stones breaking from the strain of keeping a single universe from colliding with Earth-616 may keep it at Low 1-A anyway.
Nah. It's not like the Universal Abstracts are now comparable to the Omniversal ones. The latter just heavily upscale from all the above. The Celestials also shattered the First Firmament through special weapons and not on their own power, so that feat isn't an outlier anyway.
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Thor damaged one too.
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Odin in the Destroyer armor did cut off one of the Celestial’s arms (Nezarr the Calculator iirc), but otherwise, it was abundantly clear that the Celestials were vastly stronger than him. Iirc, the Odinsword was only able to pierce Arishem because he let it pierce him so he could analyze it.
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That's fair. I also just remembered that mephisto is on odin's tier and was absolutely nothing to kubic. Kubic himself is transfinite levels below celestials. So Yeah, they shouldn't really scale
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No, it was analyzed afterwards, but as far as I could tell the Odinsword pierced Nezarr through raw power. Thor also threw it right through a Celestial and withstood their force-blasts in the same story if I remember correctly.
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Can you name examples of things that contradict the proposals in the OP, also?
Oliver_de_jesus
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Do you mean when he throw the sword or against Exitar?
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Nice finding, also. What comic is this from?
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It cut Nezarr’s arm with raw power, but Arishem let it pierce him.
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Against exitar. And bofore you say it, yes i know he was amped.
Or more specifically, his axe.
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Well, I haven't had the time to read it all, but Celestials, skyfathers, universes, and universal cosmic entities have repeatedly been threatened by regular powerful superheroes and supervillains, and it seems very extreme to assume that writers in general refer to Low 1-A or 1-A structures when referring to regular universes.
As such, I think that perceiving any such mentions as larger sections of the multiverse seems much more reasonable. Especially given that our current 1-A scaling for the Marvel multiverse explicitly hinges on a scan from a Doctor Strange comic book in which regular universes were stated to be 3-dimensional.
As such, I think that perceiving any such mentions as larger sections of the multiverse seems much more reasonable. Especially given that our current 1-A scaling for the Marvel multiverse explicitly hinges on a scan from a Doctor Strange comic book in which regular universes were stated to be 3-dimensional.
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Okay. I remembered a bit wrong then.
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You meant M bodies, right?
Also, characters are almost always amped by somekind of power.
Oliver_de_jesus
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no, I mean the first Thor vs Exitar in 90s (Thor attacked a weak point and it was an M Body of Exitar tho)
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Avengers volume 1 issue 94
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So a regular superhero being 3-A is fine, but switch the 3 to 1 and suddenly it's a problem???
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Well, as said, I'm specifically avoiding that. Without more context, we are to assume "universe" refers to the Earth Dimension, which is just Low 2-C. Universe-affecting feats will only be Low 1-A if it's made explicit that the Abstracts are being affected.
I also don't know of many instances where the Abstracts are threatened by run-of-the-mill superheroes and villains, also. If those examples exist, then they're either outliers or the heroes are somehow amped. The cosmics have always been very much above the regular denizens of Earth-616 in the pecking order.
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