Revising Dragon Ball Flight Speed (Dragon Ball + DBZ + DBS Manga)

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You are incapable of even defining how an outlier is even considerable in the first place.

There.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There's also the feat of a low-level Cerealian destroying a moon.

Ki Blasts accelerate over distances. No calculation takes into account acceleration, meaning that the capability to hit a moon is irrelevant to fights happening across sub-kilometer distances between fighters.

Ki Blasts are affected by the air and the atmosphere, and can even become slower once they enter the water too:



If you accept that ki blasts have acceleration, you can derive a number of potential values from the Piccolo / Roshi scenes. These are listed below.

Timeframe	Acceleration
3 s	85,000 km/s^2
5 s	31,000 km/s^2
10 s	7600 km/s^2

In terms of actual velocities, this correlates to a number of speeds at various distances.

(Filler)	10 meters	50 meters	100 meters
3 s | 85,000 km/s^2	41,300 m/s	92,400 m/s	131,000 m/s
5 s | 31,000 km/s^2	24,800 m/s	55,400 m/s	78,400 m/s
10 s | 7600 km/s^2	12,400 m/s	27,700 m/s	39,200 m/s

 

[GodlyCharmander]

There.

Congratulations, Matthew. You proved my point, because that's not how you define an outlier in fiction, because there are numerous nuances to consider other than the value itself, like how serious X character is, how much stronger Y character is than X, who has the lower feat, has X character become stronger than when he performed the lower feat, etc, etc.

Again, you're not debating the feat, you just have a problem with the value it yields, that's not how you do anything, ever.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Congratulations, Matthew. You proved my point, because that's not how you define an outlier in fiction, because there are numerous nuances to consider other than the value itself, like how serious X character is, how much stronger Y character is than X, who has the lower feat, has X character become stronger than when he performed the lower feat, etc, etc.

Again, you're not debating the feat, you just have a problem with the value it yields, that's not how you do anything, ever.

I don't care how you do things because you're literally wrong.

You are putting favoritism over two showings that are higher than anything else in the series until Super because you want the characters to have higher numbers in the profile, that's all there is to it.

There is no accounting for actual consistency across feats, a mean between numerical values, a desire for consistent analysis, nothing.

You just want Goku to be fast so you ignore the entire series and look at the scene where Piccolo and Roshi shoot big beams.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Ki Blasts accelerate over distances. No calculation takes into account acceleration, meaning that the capability to hit a moon is irrelevant to fights happening across sub-kilometer distances between fighters.

That's just any speed calculation on this wiki, ever.
Because it's redudant.


And bro, it's 3am. Do I really need to call a staff member because you're ranting about something completely unrelated to the OP?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That's just any speed calculation on this wiki, ever.
Because it's redudant.

Then every speed calculation on the wiki is wrong.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I don't care how you do things because you're literally wrong.

This man used to be a staff...

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Then every speed calculation on the wiki is wrong.

Great. Now stop derailing the thread, this is my last request.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This man used to be a staff...

And now I am free.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

And now I am free.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Can you guys please not turn this thread toxic?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm already out, don't worry.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Close the door on the way out, thank you.

Can you guys please not turn this thread toxic?

Matthew really brings out the worst of me.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If you want the toxicity dealt with, you could either contact an HR group, or given he's not staff anymore, report him on the RVR thread. I already notified the former. But not worth derailing the thread here to rant as Wrath of Itachi said.

But anyway, I agree that saying, "They're outliers because I said so" is very immature and is just a petty excuse to pretend blatant feats never happened when they clearly have.

But it's fairly late here, and I may need to come back tomorrow as will Damage.

 

[AKM sama]

ki blasts

accelerate

It seems that the sudden short derailment has ended, but I'd appreciate if people keep in mind that this thread is about 700 comments long already and randomly bringing up something that is not related to the direction where it's going contributes nothing but only makes it more difficult for the people invested in the thread. So please don't attempt to derail it into something it's not from now on.

 

[AKM sama]

"X combat speed and short-burst flight speed, Y long-distances flight speed"
Isn't the same as generalizing "X combat, Y flight"

Short burst flight and movements (especially those that are performed during the course of battles, like in this case) generally fall under combat speed only as far as I know. Travel speed is specifically for longer distances only. So it is practically the same, no matter how you decide to write it in the profiles.

 

[Damage3245]

Guys, let's not derail.

Will be back to this tomorrow.

My warning was in vain, I see...


Anyway - it seems that the compromise most strongly agreed on at the moment is "X combat speed, Y travel speed" for DBZ characters.

First thing I'll do is make an explanations blog, proving why each feat/anti-feat is valid, then draft up a list of changes for each profile. Mostly concentrating on the Saiyan Arc and Frieza Arc first then will expand to the rest if it is approved.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Short burst flight and movements (especially those that are performed during the course of battles, like in this case) generally fall under combat speed only as far as I know. Travel speed is specifically for longer distances only. So it is practically the same, no matter how you decide to write it in the profiles.

Yeah, but they can keep these FTL flight speeds for a certain range (far above what would be combat speed, since it's hundreds of meters), so stating in both the speed section, and range section that their speed would be dropped to a specific value due to the stamina issue would be the best approach imho.

 

[KLOL506]

Holy **** I leave for one second and fate shovels shit in my face.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Holy **** I leave for one second and fate shovels shit in my face.

Edit: nevermind.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yeah, but they can keep these FTL flight speeds for a certain range (far above what would be combat speed, since it's hundreds of meters), so stating in both the speed section, and range section that their speed would be dropped to a specific value due to the stamina issue would be the best approach imho.

I guess this could be a fair compromise, that is if there would be a scan proving the stamina issue thing

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Spoiler: Part 1

Dragon Ball - Travel Speed Feats
Note

Spoiler: Part 1

: A bit off topic, but Toriyama is kinda psychotic, going through these earlier chapters honestly disgusted me with all the children stuff.

Pilaf Saga

• Early Goku states a motorcycle is faster than he can run [Chapter 1]
• Goku gets the Kinto-un, which was confirmed to be Mach 1.5 (Supersonic) [Chapter 4, Daizenshuu 7]
• Transformed Oolong can flee from Kinto-un [Chapter 6]
• Chi-Chi outruns a Tyrannosaurus Rex, which can run at 7,5m/s (Average Human+) [Chapter 11]
• Goku's Bō extends to the moon in a very short timeframe (Relativistic to FTL) [Chapter 17]*
• Krillin can run 100m in around 10 seconds, or 10m/s (Athletic Human+) [Chapter 28]
• Prior to any training, Goku can run 100m in 8.5 seconds, or 11.76m/s (Peak Human+) [Chapter 28]
• Roshi can run 100m in 5.6 seconds, or 17.5m/s (Superhuman) [Chapter 28]

This scales to the Pilaf Saga key because it's before the tournament or any sort of training. Also, Goku's page states Roshi said that even without training, Goku should run 100m in 5s, which is untrue, he says that, WITH training, they should do it.

* - Outlier

Spoiler: PILAF SAGA SCALING

Goku​

Speed: Peak Human+ with Subsonic combat and reaction speed, Supersonic with Flying Nimbus

Chi-Chi​

Speed: Average Human+, with Superhuman reaction speeds

Krillin (Does not have a Pilaf Saga key)

Yamcha​

Speed: Athletic Human+ with Subsonic combat speed and reactions

Master Roshi (Does not have a Pilaf Saga key)

21st Budokai

• Roshi stated that, with training, both Krillin and Goku should run 100m in 5 seconds, or 20m/s (Supersonic) [Chapter 28]
• Roshi, Goku and Krillin outruns dinosaurs [Chapter 30]
• Goku and Krillin outrun a shark while swimming, 2.2m/s (Below Average Human) [Chapter 31]
• While at full strength, Goku runs so fast it's as if he disappeared for his opponent (Subsonic) [Chapter 33]
• Goku can jump and descend at the same speed as Nam (Supersonic) [Chapter 45]

Spoiler: 21st Budokai Scaling

Goku​

Speed: Subsonic with Supersonic combat speed

Krillin​

Speed: Subsonic with Supersonic combat speed

Master Roshi​

Speed: Subsonic with Supersonic combat speed

Yamcha​

Speed: Superhuman with Supersonic combat speed

General Blue Saga

• Ninja Murasaki can somewhat keep up with Goku's travel speed, albeit slower [Chapter 60]

That's it.

Commander Red Saga

• Tao Pai Pai can jump and catch up to his pillar, and travel with it (Hypersonic+) [Chapter 85]
• After the magic water training, Goku completed a trip in 3 hours, when it took him 24 hours to do it before. [Chapter 89]

Well, that's 100 chapters, or about more than half OG DB, I will finish this later, if you all don't mind

22nd Budokai

• Goku swims to the other side of the planet (Subsonic) [Chapter 113]

Everyone comparable to casual Goku should scale to his travel speed. Also, need evaluation.

King Piccolo Saga

• Tien flies hundreds of meters and saves Goku from Piccolo's Ki blast. [Chapter 158, and 159]

23rd Budokai

• Goku briefly outruns Piccolo's blast. [Chapter 189]
• Goku blitzes Piccolo by running forward [Chapter 191]
• Goku uses flight for the first time and outspeeds Piccolo from far away [Chapter 193]

That's all we have for Original Dragon Ball. I should likely skip to the Android saga since @Damage3245 covered Saiyan and Namek

 

[Dalesean027]

Assuming the two of you @Damage3245 and @GodlyCharmander are gathering feats still to look for more consistency in ratings? (I'm honestly surprised this cooled down again after 8 pages)

I don't remember all the flight feats from the buu saga and while this certainly isn't a big by any means and would be extreme lowball I do remember Gohan raced the nimbus and absolutely stomped it saying he could go faster

 

[Dalesean027]

do we know how far capsule corp is away from satan city?


also this from their home to Orange Star Highschool

 

[Vizer04]

Frieza was f*cking desperate to obtain his wish and had no reason to hold back his speed at all, and he still couldn't obtain his wish in time.

@GodlyCharmander: Ah yes, totally FTL...

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Frieza was f*cking desperate to obtain his wish and had no reason to hold back his speed at all, and he still couldn't obtain his wish in time.

@GodlyCharmander: Ah yes, totally FTL...

Vizer, you're misrepresenting my argument.
If Freeza were to try to fly that distance at the same speed as he fights he would be dead

 

[Qawsedf234]

also this from their home to Orange Star Highschool

I mean, that's still rather bad distance wise. 1,000 * 1,000 / 20 / 60 = 833.34 m/s or mach 2.42

 

[Veronica]

I think we should downgrade their combat speed also, because it's the same source for their flight speed.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I think we should downgrade their combat speed also, because it's the same source for their flight speed.

Piccolo and Roshi’s moon blasts are combat speed feats so that wouldn’t work

 

[Veronica]

Piccolo and Roshi’s moon blasts are combat speed feats so that wouldn’t work

Combat speed with many anti-feats. The only things portrayed than FTL in DBZ are Saiyan pods and Bulma's ship.

 

[Dalesean027]

Combat speed with many anti-feats. The only things portrayed than FTL in DBZ are Saiyan pods and Bulma's ship.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Regardless, this thread is about separating combat from travel rather a general speed downgrade so you’ll have to save any gripes with the speed scaling for a hypothetical sequel thread (assuming someone actually makes that).

 

[thetechmaster36]

Combat speed with many anti-feats. The only things portrayed than FTL in DBZ are Saiyan pods and Bulma's ship.

Cap. Actual cap.

Regardless, leave combat speed out of this, we're only focusing on flight speed for now.

 

[Hasty12345]

Combat speed with many anti-feats. The only things portrayed than FTL in DBZ are Saiyan pods and Bulma's ship.

Facts, complete facts.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, save the combat speed arguments for another thread guys, for now I'm just focused on getting their travel speed feats added in.


EDIT: I'll be back to this thread on Monday.

 

[KLOL506]

Combat speed with many anti-feats. The only things portrayed than FTL in DBZ are Saiyan pods and Bulma's ship.

This argument again? Seriously? It's one thing to apply this to travel speed, but applying this to combat speed is even dumber than you think, especially if you take into factor the whole "consistently outpaces their own ki blasts and attacks" type of stuff. Also the spaceship argument is horseshit because literally the only reason they exist is because the Saiyans can't breathe in space.

Also yeah, as everyone said, this is major derailing, and I don't think even a separate CRT will be able to do anything about it.

 

[KLOL506]

Facts, complete facts.

Prove them then. Every single one of these inconsistencies have either been 1. Ignoring context or 2. Not truly showcasing their real power.

 

[Damage3245]

No need to respond to them KLOL, It's getting off-topic.

Would people object to me locking the thread until Monday?

Might help stop things getting out of hand while I'm away from my PC.

 

[KLOL506]

No need to respond to them KLOL, It's getting off-topic.

Would people object to me locking the thread until Monday?

Might help stop things getting out of hand skills I'm away from my PC.

I guess not. Feel free.

 

[Damage3245]

Unlocked the thread. Will post an update later tonight.

Please don't let things get out of hand or off-topic.