Revising Dragon Ball Flight Speed (Dragon Ball + DBZ + DBS Manga)

[Dalesean027]

The gohan feat we already have listed above it just needs to be blogged or something ig

do we know how far capsule corp is away from satan city?


also this from their home to Orange Star Highschool

I mean, that's still rather bad distance wise. 1,000 * 1,000 / 20 / 60 = 833.34 m/s or mach 2.42

 

[Damage3245]

The gohan feat we already have listed above it just needs to be blogged or something ig

Yeah, I'll make another calc blog for that and add it to the list.

 

[Veronica]

Yeah, I'll make another calc blog for that and add it to the list.

Base Gohan being Mach 2.4 is absurdly low

 

[Qawsedf234]

Base Gohan being Mach 2.4 is absurdly low

Almost every flight speed feat in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z tops out at like, hypersonic. Its consistent when that's taken into account.

 

[Veronica]

Almost every flight speed feat in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z tops out at like, hypersonic. Its consistent when that's taken into account.

But what Kid Goku lighting speed, Raditz dodging Piccolo's attack etc. It should scale to their travel speed.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Almost every flight speed feat in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z tops out at like, hypersonic. Its consistent when that's taken into account.

Not really. There are also many examples shown earlier of higher speed feats in DBZ

 

[Dalesean027]

But what Kid Goku lighting speed, Raditz dodging Piccolo's attack etc. It should scale to their travel speed.

It does they have FTL and MFTL combat speeds ans travel speeds still they just can't go as fast when traveling over long distances or they'd drain all their Ki so this is for long distance flight speeds

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It does they have FTL and MFTL combat speeds ans travel speeds still they just can't go as fast when traveling over long distances or they'd drain all their Ki so this is for long distance flight speeds

Proof for that?

 

[Qawsedf234]

But what Kid Goku lighting speed, Raditz dodging Piccolo's attack etc.

The point of the thread was that they cannot keep that speed up over long distances.

There are also many examples shown earlier of higher speed feats in DBZ

None of the long distance speed feats in DB or DBZ besides the Gotenks one will get you a result better than Hypersonic from memory. They just take to long to go from Point A to Point B.

 

[Dalesean027]

Proof for that?

Bruh that's literally what the whole thread had been about just read it we already came to a consensus literally read how it got here don't be lazy

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

None of the long distance speed feats in DB or DBZ besides the Gotenks one will get you a result better than Hypersonic from memory. They just take to long to go from Point A to Point B.

Have you looked on the feats? Examples would be Goku VS Vegeta fight, Goku VS Ginyu Force, Krillin and Gohan VS Guldo, Second Form Frieza blitzes Krillin, Vegeta VS Final Form Frieza, Goku outspeeds Frieza's death saucers and more

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bruh that's literally what the whole thread had been about just read it we already came to a consensus literally read how it got here don't be lazy

No, the thread is about downgrading travel speed. But you are saying that they can only go fast for short distances, yet never prove it with a scan saying that they can only do it for a short time

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

No, the thread is about downgrading travel speed. But you are saying that they can only go fast for short distances, yet never prove it with a scan saying that they can only do it for a short time

• Goku runs out of steam when trying to cross Snake Way due to using too much energy
• Goku advises Gohan to not fly too fast in order to preserve his energy reserves when traveling across the planet

Just read the thread

 

[Dalesean027]

MY CONCLUSION SO FAR/PROPOSAL​

Alright, I've seen everything both sides have to offer as of now, and came to a, in my opinion, very reasonable proposal that will address both sides accordingly.

OP favorable arguments​

First, we need to consider all the times where the characters needed to get from point A to point B as fast as possible, and yet, they showcase Supersonic+ to Hypersonic+ flight speed. Damage already went through these points, but some of them are,

• Goku trying to get to the saiyans
• Z-Fighters looking for Gero's lab
• Goku trying to look for a shapeship to get out of Namek

And of course, all the calcs Damage provided earlier.

These show instances where it would obviously be inconvenient to the narrative if character X were to get to point B before any repercussions happened. So, yes, these have happened.

Don't worry, I know the opposing side's answers for all these examples, I will address them shortly.

Opposing Side's arguments​

Although these instances do exist, we also have to address some of the valid points the opposing side has provided, where the characters simply run, or flight away from the blasts,

• Goku outruns Piccolo's Chi Blast
• Raditz runs away from Goku's Kamehameha long enough to deliver some lines
• Goku flies to Freeza's location faster than he can move his arm to kill Vegeta (albeit casual, should still be FTL Combat Speed being outsped by Goku's Flight Speed)
• Freeza flies far away and blitzes Vegeta
• SSJ Goku outruns Freeza's Kienzans with flight

There are other examples where a character with FTL reaction gets blizted by short burst flights in a straight line like Piccolo vs Freeza, but you all get the point.

These are instances that, if going by our current scaling, showcase flight being FTL, and comparable to attack/combat speed. It may seem like an obvious contradiction for an outsider, "how come you take 8 hours to fly 2000km, but outruns faster-than-light attacks occasionally?"

Well, the opposing side have provided evidence that flying for long distances at high speeds consumes an extensive amount of energy from the user, Goku states so when crossing the Snake Way, and implies this when talking to Gohan. So yeah, maintaining FTL flights for a long distance would most likely consume one's energy to exhaustion, right? So they won't do it, because what good does it do if you get there but you're drained? Goku literally implies Gohan would use all his strength for flying to another city by going full speed.

This "answers" most instances where speed is Hypersonic, because if they tried to cross the distance at FTL, they'd be drained. Great, "debunked", right?

No! Because these other instances where they did showcase faster flight speed compared to combat speed still exist! If the energy consumption is so high, how can Goku fly away from MFTL Ki Blasts for several panels and not just be drained? Well, I have a solution.

My solution for the contradictions​

Considering that we've seen characters flying faster or comparably to their attack speed for shorter bursts, I suggest we add information on the Range section of these character profiles. Yes, we put a certain range for their high speed flights, that cannot be maintained for longer than said range, otherwise their energy would be greatly depleted. After said range, they could just maintain a lower flight speed for longer distances, thus, adding the new ratings from Damage, but still addressing that, in a fight, they can easily fly for X distance at the same speed as they fight in. This honestly should satisfy both sides of the argument, and answer the inconsistency provided by this awful, awful show.

"How should we do that?"​

Simple, we take these instances where flight was comparable to combat, calc the distance they've flown, and put this as their range for high speed/FTL flight speed. Otherwise, we can just scale stronger characters to lower tier's ranges as they obviously have a larger energy reserve.

My rating proposal

Goku

Speed: FTL combat speed and ranged flight speed, Hypersonic+/Massively Hypersonic+/etc long-distances flight speed.


How does that sound, everyone?

Nah @Gilad_Hyperstar you really didn't read it's all summed up here

 

[Qawsedf234]

Have you looked on the feats?

I have and look at what I said

speed up over long distances.

None of the long distance speed

The point isn't that they're always only supersonic or hypersonic. But that they through canon numbers and story events just cannot travel over state/country sized distances that quickly. Their fighting speed being where its at now is fine. The agreed proposal was also that they are noted as being much slower in terms of long distance movement speed.

 

[Damage3245]

Now that I'm back and able to continue with this, I'll work on the sandbox for it over the weekend.

 

[SuperStar]

Welcome Back

 

[Vizer04]

Glad to see that you're back and well :3

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Dragon ball is truly weird in this regard tbh.

 

[mal]

so if this got accepted,does that mean their become weaker if they fight while flying?

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

so if this got accepted,does that mean their become weaker if they fight while flying?

Fighting while flying is still combat speed

It's long distance travel that's the issue

 

[mal]

Fighting while flying is still combat speed

It's long distance travel that's the issue

still the same both moving in mftl+ xcept if they didnt fight in mftl+. iirc both use ki too. if their ki run out after flying ftl for 5min then they cant fight in ftl for 5min. cmiiw

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

Bump

Working on the speed ratings with some help from Nullflowerbush. At the moment it's stalled a bit, but will be getting back into it soon. It's turned into more of a complete speed justification overhaul than just the flight speed stuff, as many of the justifications were missing or barely there.

 

[Dalesean027]

Was just going to bump this myself since I apparently lost notifications

Working on the speed ratings with some help from Nullflowerbush. At the moment it's stalled a bit, but will be getting back into it soon. It's turned into more of a complete speed justification overhaul than just the flight speed stuff, as many of the justifications were missing or barely there.

Since that's another step above what was previously being gathered and put together how long do you think it'd take to fully get that ready?

 

[Damage3245]

Was just going to bump this myself since I apparently lost notifications

Since that's another step above what was previously being gathered and put together how long do you think it'd take to fully get that ready?

A week, probably.

 

[Dalesean027]

Bumping, ik it's being worked on I'm just making sure those who want to follow get notified for this thread existing still

 

[Damage3245]

Currently working on gathering references. Might as well apply them while this revision is happening.

 

[Vizer04]

Bumping this so it doesn't get forgotten.

 

[Damage3245]

Bumping this so it doesn't get forgotten.

It's not forgotten, it's just not going to get updated frequently. I'm hoping that I'll become less busy soon.

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

So that this thread doesn't get repeatedly bumped, I'll be temporarily locking it for now. There's no need for it be open until the specific proposals for rating + justification changes, and references, and ready to go.

 

[Damage3245]

The sandbox isn't 100% done, but I've added every significant character from Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z to it, and made good progress on updating justifications, removing circular scaling, adding references, and incorporating flight speed ratings.

If anyone would like to assist in rewriting justifications or adding in scans, please let me know. Going to continue editing it for at least a few days more until it is ready to be considered fine to apply.

@Maverick_Zero_X I remember you made a blog on Dragon Ball speed feats so would like you to take a look over this.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

@Maverick_Zero_X I remember you made a blog on Dragon Ball speed feats so would like you to take a look over this.

Your current progress looks good, references for our DB profiles was a much needed touch

 

[Damage3245]

Your current progress looks good, references for our DB profiles was a much needed touch

Thanks. Still got to change some justifications (Goten and Trunks are both scaling off of each other for some reason) and add more missing references, but I don't think any sections need massive rewrites at this point unless I've missed out some characters.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The sandbox isn't 100% done, but I've added every significant character from Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z to it, and made good progress on updating justifications, removing circular scaling, adding references, and incorporating flight speed ratings.

If anyone would like to assist in rewriting justifications or adding in scans, please let me know. Going to continue editing it for at least a few days more until it is ready to be considered fine to apply.

@Maverick_Zero_X I remember you made a blog on Dragon Ball speed feats so would like you to take a look over this.

I have two things to say.
1. Link to akm's speed blog for every single profile you will edit at least once.
2. We need to make some kind of foot note in the profiles or verse page that characters can indeed reach a flight speed that is comparable to their combat speed but only in short bursts because it consumes a lot of stamina.

 

[Damage3245]

1. Link to akm's speed blog for every single profile you will edit at least once.

There is a bit in the sandbox for a note that links to AKM's blog, that will be included on more profiles as explanatory text.

2. We need to make some kind of foot note in the profiles or verse page that characters can indeed reach a flight speed that is comparable to their combat speed but only in short bursts because it consumes a lot of stamina.

I'll work on something for the verse page for that.

 

[Dalesean027]

2. We need to make some kind of foot note in the profiles or verse page that characters can indeed reach a flight speed that is comparable to their combat speed but only in short bursts because it consumes a lot of stamina.

I'll work on something for the verse page for that.

This is probably the most important part aside from the work that's been done itself and absolutely needs to be articulated well enough as to not cause problems

 

[Dalesean027]

Since I don't see it on the blog though I'll just ask even if it's obvious just to have this out there but those like potential unleashed gohan who scale above gotenks will they also be scaled to his MHS+?

 

[Damage3245]

Since I don't see it on the blog though I'll just ask even if it's obvious just to have this out there but those like potential unleashed gohan who scale above gotenks will they also be scaled to his MHS+?

Yeah, added it to some characters like Majin Buu and Vegito. Haven't added it yet to some characters like Gohan. Gohan would scale to that.