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No you didn't, you presented your own definitions and policies for Acausality, which the wiki does not accept as valid.I've already went on how it doesn't fit for Acausality overall, bring some arguments if you want to go somewhere.
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No you didn't, you presented your own definitions and policies for Acausality, which the wiki does not accept as valid.I've already went on how it doesn't fit for Acausality overall, bring some arguments if you want to go somewhere.
The current standards were meant for those who transcend laws but no law of cause and effect were listed as those laws. That would be type 4Not really, all my arguments were based on the current standards and precedents within this thread.
Yet you agree with the upgrade. How ironicNowhere was it mentioned his source is beyond causality so yes, I stand by my point
He says Anos qualifies more than Arceus. And that's a noYet you agree with the upgrade. How ironic
No, you are completely wrong. The main point of acc type 5 is being unbound by/outside of the system, law of cause and effect aka causality. Interacting is only a supportive statement, and it can also be used as an anti-feat.Your scan is impossible to read and I had to go read the chapter myelf, but yes. I knew that they had Acausality evidence besides the stuff mentioned above that I wouldn't consider evidence. However, Acausality Type 5 is about being uninteractable, simply being imperceptible in such a way as above and all the above evidence presented is not enough evidence to prove that they are uninteractable and unchanging because of being acasual.
its by scaling other gods who have it. There was already a thread about type 5 acausality for WoD but that was before the forum change so don`t know if its still thereThe Buddha (World of Darkness)
No justification
There isn't a page. There were once but they were poor quality and got deleted. One of the arguments for it was the Angels predating causality and creating it later on. The thread discussing about acausality in WoD can't be found it got lost during the forum change.Can you mention a page in the verse with better reasonings then? Scaling this sort of powers would also require some kind of reasoning to say the least.
I should note, Buddha isn't the only one with obvious Type 5 Acausality in WoD, so they weren't given explicit reasons, for example, when writing Jehovah's profile, Ultima never gave reasoning because reasoning was pretty obvious there too.its by scaling other gods who have it. There was already a thread about type 5 acausality for WoD but that was before the forum change so don`t know if its still there
I have compiled all the characters that do not qualify for Type 5 by new standards here.In fact most type 5 Acausality just don't qualify
It will be better for op to link all Type 5s on the wiki here for evaluation
Homestuck
John Egbert
Aradia Megido
Caliborn
Calliope
Andrew Hussie
MSPA Reader
Dirk Strider
This is the list of all Homestuck characters with type 5 acausality from memory, if there are any more please inform me, but anyways.
They have no showings of interactivity and have many anti-feats to their status as type 5 and the only one that could maybe qualify is first guardian MSPA Reader, outside of them they either have no feats or too many anti-feats for them to be eligible for type 5, maybe yuri could explain why they should but otherwise, they should have the type 5 downgraded to really good type 4.
Probably should start from this list and work our way down to see which ones qualify or not.I was bored and decided to browse on way more Acausality type 5 characters, I'll also suggest for those knowledgeable in the series involved to check other characters with the power as chances are they may not qualify either:
Gods of Heaven (Mizukamiverse)
No explanations at all, honestly the page may even be deletion worthy with how bad it is.
Anos
Sounds more like Transduality type 2 (which is already a part of) as there's not enought to relate it with the new standards regarding causality as far I can tell.
Akuto Sai
No citations at all, and sounds rather vague even then for the purposes of the new criteria
Featherine Augustus Aurora
No justification
The Buddha (World of Darkness)
No justification
SCP-682
Justification is being on the same level of beings like this, which consumed this and is beyond it, which just... sustains time and is beyond it, I don't think they qualify...
Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics)
Honestly sounds way more like type 4 acausality if anything, nothing in there implies he's hard to interact with out of being beyond causality
JUDY
No justification
Azathoth (Cthulhu Mythos)
No justification
Yogiri Takatou
Relies on someone with type 4 acausality (with no scans, lol) perceiving him as "imperceptible / incomprehensible", while separately being stated apparently to be "beyond fate, plot and causality" and while there's plenty of references, there's no direct scans as far I can tell, so this may be a bit questionable, especially with how some parts seem rather vague as is.
The Downstreamers
No justification
Oblivion (Marvel Comics)
Preceding characters/cosmologies is in no way proof of acausality, let alone type 5, if there's more to this it should be added, or else removed
Anu
No justification
The Goddess of The Manifold
No justification
Gan
No justification
YHVH (Shin Megami Tensei)
No justification
The Great Reason
No justification
Unicron
No citation, also pretty vague anyways
Luminous Being
No explanation
Wendy (Low Dimensional Game)
Being separate from cause and effect isn't enought on its own to have type 5 acausality anymore.
Sassy the Sasquatch
No justification, I recall Ultima is still working on the verse right now, however
Ayase Mika
No justification
The One
No justification
I did look through the evidence of his profile, and it does seem to lack evidence that proves he is uninteractable because he is unchangeable.
Celestial_Pegasus
Do you have any such evidence?
Their has to be a bit more of a direct link between being uninteractable and being acausal. This doesn't really seem like it would be Acausality Type 5 instead of Acausality Type 4 + Nonexistent Physiology.
Actually, I remember reading Tokyo Bable myself. I'm pretty sure them being immune to damage isn't Acausality but instead Causality Manipulation, in that whenever they are harmed the event of being harmed is erased, thus erasing the damage. (Kind of an anti-feat of Acausality Type 5 in a way)
Seems fine for Acausality Type 5.
The reason why I agreed to Madoka having Acausality Type 5, is because she has a scan that shows that ths series correlate being acausal to being uninteractable. That's it, just a scan that connects these two things. (Well that and not having major anti-feats and evidence of being acasual)
It's not impossible or unproveable, it's just specific. And it's specific because as an indexing site accuracy should be above all else.
Missing mentions of being uninteractable because of being acasual, not enough for Type 5.
I agree, no actual evidence of being uninteractable because of acausality.
Not enough if their is no evidence of him being uninteractable because of being acasual.
Based on what I've read on thir profile, it doesn't seem to qualify.
Still no evidence (scans) of being uninteractable because of being acausal.
I'll drop an argument for Anos later.
So you're basically ignoring the scan that says the reason she can't be interacted with because she's shifted to a higher plane, become a mere concept, no longer a part of the universe?I've explained it as best I could, if you can't understand the reasoning even now then I can't really do anything to help you.
The rest Is just your interpretation versus mine and theirs nothing that can be done about that, it's just a part of human nature and something that has to be accepted with this hobby.
I've already explained why removing Type 5 from Homestuck characters doesn't work, especially for the users with Retcon Powers.I agree, no actual evidence of being uninteractable because of acausality.
Became an existence which is no longer a part of the universe with nobody being able to neither interact with nor remember her anymore as she's now completely outside time, cause and effect, without any kind of connection to the worldCould someone link all the scans being used as evidence for Madoka's Acausality? Their's something I need to check.
You said after reading the original Acausality Type 5 Homestuck upgrade thread that you were certain they should have it. What thread is that because both what I've seen on the profiles, what has been argued in this thread, and what I know of the game and gigantic webcomic that I'm not interesting in rereading again at the moment to collect every time someone interacted with John or MSPA Reader after they gained their powers, the evidence isn't good enough.I've already explained why removing Type 5 from Homestuck characters doesn't work, especially for the users with Retcon Powers.
Good lord Type 5 didn't need to be this strict.
Also what anti feats even are there aside from MSPA Reader?
No mention of Causality. Useless.
No mention of Causality. Useless.
No mention of being uninteractable. Useless.
I fail to see how any abstract entity won't beat her ass to pulp
Good. With Madoka out of the way, it seems so far we still haven't found anyone who fit the standards.You said after reading the original Acausality Type 5 Homestuck upgrade thread that you were certain they should have it. What thread is that because both what I've seen on the profiles, what has been argued in this thread, and what I know of the game and gigantic webcomic that I'm not interesting in rereading again at the moment to collect every time someone interacted with John or MSPA Reader after they gained their powers, the evidence isn't good enough.
No mention of Causality. Useless.
No mention of Causality. Useless.
No mention of being uninteractable. Useless.
Hmm. My opinion on the requirements of Acausality Type 5 hasn't changed, but their is something I saw last month I'm not seeing now.
For Retcon Users, it was in this threadYou said after reading the original Acausality Type 5 Homestuck upgrade thread that you were certain they should have it. What thread is that because both what I've seen on the profiles, what has been argued in this thread, and what I know of the game and gigantic webcomic that I'm not interesting in rereading again at the moment to collect every time someone interacted with John or MSPA Reader after they gained their powers, the evidence isn't good enough.
If it was that easy we wouldn't have this thread to judge the character's standard and I wouldn't have chosen to start with the easy picks from a verses I'm knowledgeable on who I knew the justifications and how they didn't fit the new standards before I made this thread.Can you give us examples now
Yeah, I don't see it. I still don't see the evidence required for the new standards.
"We can't interact with them at all. They are outside this world, unbound by the chains of cause and effect."
If the "character" is a thing that have a feat of not being able to be interacted with everything, to the point that you can't even think or describ it for even acausal type 4 character (trying to describe it will just be detached from the "character"). That it's outside of the world (and every boundary/duality/concept) and not bound by causality. It is enough?This would be the simpliest explanation you could use bar having a direct statement of being acausal equals unable to interact.
The proximity of the uninteractable statement to the acasual statements is essential, can't just have two scans with one saying they are uninteractable and one saying they are acasual and say that is enough.
Though, more complicated verses like Elder Scrolls or World of Darkness might have evidence that meets the standards that isn't so easy to understand, with their complicated unique cosmologies and poetic form of storytelling.
I'm currently working on Saint Seiya characters with multiple Novel length blogs being built around them. An Acausality one almost done actually. But I will say I'm fine with its removal from the whole verse until I publish that blog as a crt.I have compiled all the characters that do not qualify for Type 5 by new standards here.