Remove Saitama's resistance to Durability Negation

[Arnoldstone18]

His organs being strong enough to tank attacks like that is what gives him the resistance.

Why is this part so difficult for people to understand?

Alright so is limited?

Also,

Does “durability” only apply to the outward parts of the body? I thought it covers the entire structure of the body. inside and out.

it’s just unfortunate that a normal person has squishy organs.

The dura neg attack Garou has sends shockwaves through the body right? What’s stopping Saitama from being durable enough to stop the shockwaves from attacking his organs? So it may not even be resistance to internal damage just a massively high durability. That’s just my guess.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

That's what Garou believes since normal people can't train their internals to be strong enough to protect against fatal attacks.

Saitama is obviously not normal in that regard.

Yeah, Saitama is definitely a superhuman to begin with.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Does “durability” only apply to the outward parts of the body? I thought it covers the entire structure of the body. inside and out.

It only covers the bones, flesh, and skin.
To my knowledge, it doesn’t necessarily cover the organs per se.

The fact Saitama can tank two attacks that was meant to destroy his own organs make it a impressive feat in his case

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It only covers the bones, flesh, and skin.
To my knowledge, it doesn’t necessarily cover the organs per se.

The fact Saitama can tank two attacks that was meant to destroy his own organs make it a impressive feat in his case

What if his bones flesh and skin are durable enough to stop shockwaves from passing through?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Alright so is limited?

Also,

Does “durability” only apply to the outward parts of the body? I thought it covers the entire structure of the body. inside and out.

it’s just unfortunate that a normal person has squishy organs.

The dura neg attack Garou has sends shockwaves through the body right? What’s stopping Saitama from being durable enough to stop the shockwaves from attacking his organs? So it may not even be resistance to internal damage just a massively high durability. That’s just my guess.

That or specifically internal organ attacks, yeah. Just that and only that.

Most fiction have outward and inward "durability" be their own separate thing. They usually aren't on the same level unless specified otherwise.

And Saitama's are not as squishy.

Unless it was stated to be the case in the future, Occam's Razor says he tanked the hit head on and it did nothing to him.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

What if his bones flesh and skin are durable enough to stop shockwaves from passing through?

Do you have actual scans that say that or is that just a guess?

Cause if it's the latter, it would just be speculation at best.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

What if his bones flesh and skin are durable enough to stop shockwaves from passing through?

Shockwaves doesn’t strictly ignore durability by default IIRC so it is more or less a durability feat.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Alright. So I went back and saw the context for Fa Jin.

If his organs aren’t squishy and it bypasses the bones and flesh entirely somehow. Then I’m fine with limited Dura neg as a compromise

 

[Kin201]

If having stronger internal organs than normal humans qualifies that resistance, then I think I'm fine with the limited durability negation as well.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah, it will been limited durability negation and resistance to that type of durability negation as stated by @DarkDragonMedeus

There's no such thing as a universal "Resistance to durability negation" When resisting an attack that negates durability, it's simply resisting however method a character in question does it. It would more so be resistance to pressure point strikes or resistance to internal organ damaging based on reading the OP and what not.

While he did stated a universal “resistance to durability negation” doesn’t exist, the resistance page does goes out of its way of mentioning specifics of that resistance:

“. As a result, when resistance is listed on a page, it's important to describe the specifics.”

 

[sanicspood]

Honestly it makes sense for it to be limited, even if u argue saitamas internal organs are as strong as his physical body that still should warrant a resistance since trying to harm his internal organs wouldn’t work since it’s as strong as his physical body, but stuff like destroying blood vessels or shutting off nerve patterns to the brain will still work since it’s not even physically harming organs, it’s attacking the way they work

So it should just be “Limited Durability Negation (His organs are as tough as his body, which allowed him to tank Garou’s Fa Jin attack, which was stated to harm internal organs.)

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yeah it’s my bad for thinking the shockwaves from Fa Jin travel through the bones and flesh, it just bypasses them entirely towards the organs.

i know there is no universal form of Dura neg but for an attack to bypass the body partially should still be limited.

if I didn’t check myself I’ll probably still be arguing

 

[Kachon123]

I agree with limited

 

[KingTempest]

I could've sworn that this wiki doesn't do resistance to dura neg

 

[Tural2004]

I could've sworn that this wiki doesn't do resistance to dura neg

I am pretty sure it does. Unless my memory deceives me I have seen it through multiple verses. There is even stuff like resistance to resistance negation lol

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I could've sworn that this wiki doesn't do resistance to dura neg

Perhaps, but then we have to ignore on what the resistance page has say regarding this.

Resistance

Resistance is the power to withstand the effects of certain abilities through varying means. The highest degree of resistance is outright Immunity, supposedly making the user in question completely unaffected by such abilities. Of course, simple resistance to one showing of an ability isn't...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Technically it does include Durability Negation since it is a ability with many ways that show such cases.

And as far as I am aware, we are currently treating durability negation as a ability as it is the page for durability negation.

 

[KingTempest]

I am pretty sure it does. Unless my memory deceives me I have seen it through multiple verses. There is even stuff like resistance to resistance negation lol

resistance to resistance negation, yes. resistance to dura neg is something i didn't know about

 

[TheRustyOne]

This shouldn't be resistance. Resistance would be if the attack was less effective on Saitama than is should've been, or it failed to even reach his organs in the first place. However nothing like that is even suggested. As such we shouldn't be making up assumptions. Especially when we're told the opposite.

Garou stated his attack worked just fine on him. "If the impact penetrated him and shattered the thing behind him, that means he's sturdier than the thing is."

Garou clearly said the impact did penetrate Saitama's body. Saitama's body didn't prevent the shockwave from going inside of him, or the shockwave did go inside of him but was less effective than it should normally be. This line is just stating he's very durable/sturdy. No that he resisted the shockwave's ability to travel.

Garou's dura negation is limited for a reason. Because Garou's way of negating durability wouldn't effect a VASTLY stronger character. Since your internal organs are indeed affected by the recoil of your own attacks, and the attacks from someone else. Yes they are protected by the skin, muscles, bones, and whatever.

However they still get hit with some (Tiny amount) of that energy. Which means there is a limit to how much you can say Garou ignores durability.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

This shouldn't be resistance. Resistance would be if the attack was less effective on Saitama than is should've been, or it failed to even reach his organs in the first place. However nothing like that is even suggested. As such we shouldn't be making up assumptions. Especially when we're told the opposite.

Garou stated his attack worked just fine on him. "If the impact penetrated him and shattered the thing behind him, that means he's sturdier than the thing is."

Garou clearly said the impact did penetrate Saitama's body. Saitama's body didn't prevent the shockwave from going inside of him, or the shockwave did go inside of him but was less effective than it should normally be. This line is just stating he's very durable/sturdy. No that he resisted the shockwave's ability to travel.

Garou's dura negation is limited for a reason. Because Garou's way of negating durability wouldn't effect a VASTLY stronger character. Since your internal organs are indeed affected by the recoil of your own attacks, and the attacks from someone else. Yes they are protected by the skin, muscles, bones, and whatever.

However they still get hit with some (Tiny amount) of that energy. Which means there is a limit to how much you can say Garou ignores durability.

Yeah, but before that scene you listed, we also got this statement as well.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Yeah, but before that scene you listed, we also got this statement as well.

https://**********/read/gist/OPM/163/22/

He's incorrect. Why is Garou's word suddenly 100% law? He's literally proven wrong in that panel by Saitama being alright.

He himself stated that his attack did penetrated through Saitama. Meaning he didn't resist it.

When did Saitama prevent the shockwave from traveling through him, or made it work less than it was suppose to?

Garou himself stated that Saitama was just very sturdy. Not that he was resisting his ability.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

He's incorrect. Why is Garou's word suddenly 100% law? He's literally proven wrong in that panel by Saitama being alright.

He himself stated that his attack did penetrated through Saitama. Meaning he didn't resist it.

When did Saitama prevent the shockwave from traveling through him, or made it work less than it was suppose to?

Garou himself stated that Saitama was just very sturdy. Not that he was resisting his ability.

Let me correct you on this. The statement I posted is prior to the scene you using, he was using a different technique.

https://**********/read/gist/OPM/163/18/

“Great Fa Jin”
After he did that, he legitimately say “No matter how tough your bones and flesh are, there is no way to train your Internal Organs” which is the scan I provided to you earlier.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Let me correct you on this. The statement I posted is prior to the scene you using, he was using a different technique.

https://**********/read/gist/OPM/163/18/

I's the same attack. They produce the same effect. I see no reason to assume he's using a different attack when he does them the same way and produces the exact same shattering/exploding the object behind the person he hit thing. He is even shown to have the same "energy" effect around his palms before he strikes him.

Gaoru not saying the name doesn't mean he isn't using it. That's just a name, it doesn't activate special powers when he says it.

Him saying no one can train their organs is irrelevant. Saitama is shown to be fine which proves him wrong. Unless someone can provide proof that the shockwave didn't travel through his body, and not that he isn't just durable. Saitama has no reason to have resistance, as it was never stated he resisted that ability.

Regardless of what his other attack is. Garou never said his attack didn't go through Saitama, or was less effective on him, it just didn't work on him. And we know that Garou's method of attacking can't harm everyone. If someone is too vastly stronger/durable his attack wouldn't work.

Since their organs would be stronger than his AP. Garou just can't believe that someone this powerful could exist.

I will never agree with resistance on this situation.

I apologies if I'm sounding rude or condescending right now. That is not my intention.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This shouldn't be resistance. Resistance would be if the attack was less effective on Saitama than is should've been, or it failed to even reach his organs in the first place. However nothing like that is even suggested. As such we shouldn't be making up assumptions. Especially when we're told the opposite.

Garou stated his attack worked just fine on him. "If the impact penetrated him and shattered the thing behind him, that means he's sturdier than the thing is."

Garou clearly said the impact did penetrate Saitama's body. Saitama's body didn't prevent the shockwave from going inside of him, or the shockwave did go inside of him but was less effective than it should normally be. This line is just stating he's very durable/sturdy. No that he resisted the shockwave's ability to travel.

Garou's dura negation is limited for a reason. Because Garou's way of negating durability wouldn't effect a VASTLY stronger character. Since your internal organs are indeed affected by the recoil of your own attacks, and the attacks from someone else. Yes they are protected by the skin, muscles, bones, and whatever.

However they still get hit with some (Tiny amount) of that energy. Which means there is a limit to how much you can say Garou ignores durability.

Yeah that’s the same thing I said but Garou stated he bypassed Saitama’s bones and flesh which is why I agreed with limited.

If you agree with Garou’s own word as the owner of the ability, fine. I agree too. But if you disagree, I don’t have a problem.

 

[Kachon123]

I agree with Rusty.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I's the same attack. They produce the same effect. I see no reason to assume he's using a different attack when he does them the same way and produces the exact same shattering the object behind the person he hit thing. He is even shown to have the same "energy" effect around his palms before he strikes him.

Gaoru not saying the name doesn't mean he isn't using it. That's just a name, it doesn't activate special powers when he says it.

Him saying no one can train their organs is irrelevant. Saitama is shown to be fine which proves him wrong. Unless someone can provide proof that the shockwave didn't travel through his body, and not that he isn't just durable. Saitama has no reason to have resistance, as it was never stated he resisted that ability.

Regardless of what his other attack is. Garou never said his attack didn't go through Saitama, or was less effective on him, it just didn't work on him. And we know that Garou's method of attacking can't harm everyone. If someone is too vastly stronger/durable his attack wouldn't work.

Since their organs would be stronger than his AP. Garou just can't believe that someone this powerful could exist.

I will never agree with resistance on this situation.

I apologies if I'm sounding rude or condescending right now. That is not my intention.

It is not the same attack. If you fully read the chapter and pay attention, the attack have him jump and slam on Saitama after the statement.

https://**********/read/gist/OPM/163/34/

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Garou clearly said the impact did penetrate Saitama's body. Saitama's body didn't prevent the shockwave from going inside of him, or the shockwave did go inside of him but was less effective than it should normally be. This line is just stating he's very durable/sturdy. No that he resisted the shockwave's ability to travel.

He resisted the effects of the shockwave, that's what is important.

This shouldn't be resistance. Resistance would be if the attack was less effective on Saitama than is should've been, or it failed to even reach his organs in the first place. However nothing like that is even suggested. As such we shouldn't be making up assumptions. Especially when we're told the opposite.

Considering the attack failed to do anything to him, yes it was not very effective. He took the attack head on, he wasn't affected. Simple as that.

He himself stated that his attack did penetrated through Saitama. Meaning he didn't resist it.

When did Saitama prevent the shockwave from traveling through him, or made it work less than it was suppose to?

We're talking about the effects of the shockwave, not the shockwave itself. That would be Resistance to Shockwave Generation in this case.

Garou's dura negation is limited for a reason. Because Garou's way of negating durability wouldn't effect a VASTLY stronger character. Since your internal organs are indeed affected by the recoil of your own attacks, and the attacks from someone else. Yes they are protected by the skin, muscles, bones, and whatever.

However they still get hit with some (Tiny amount) of that energy. Which means there is a limit to how much you can say Garou ignores durability.

Then just make Garou's Dura Neg and Saitama's Resistance to it Limited. That's what I've been saying.

Not to be rude to you, but with thinking like this we should remove Saitama's resistances to Psychokinesis, Ice and Fire too. He didn't stop the abilities from working on him either. He just tanked it and they had little to no effect on him. That's what Saitama does.

 

[TheRustyOne]

It is not the same attack. If you fully read the chapter and pay attention, the attack have him in the air after the statement.

https://**********/read/gist/OPM/163/34/

I have read the chapter, multiple times in fact. My apologies but I disagree with you, I hope you can understand that linking the chapter isn't going to change anything.

Why does that attack having him in the air after his statement mean they aren't the same attack? When literally everything about them is the same. The only difference is that Garou doesn't say the name again. Which isn't something he is required to do at all.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Not to be rude to you, but with thinking like this we should remove Saitama's resistances to Psychokinesis, Ice and Fire too. He didn't stop the abilities from working on him either. He just tanked it and they had little to no effect on him. That's what Saitama does.

No that isn't how that works.

Fire, Ice, and Psychokinesis (I don't know how psychic powers work) do not depend on physical durability. Tanking fire is much different than withstanding physical force. A copper wire can withstand a 600 degree fire without damage, but a human would be burned by that same fire, but that same human can casually snap that copper wire.

Ice/Cold is the same but in the opposite direction. Physical durability has nothing to do with withstanding heat/cold.

Garou isn't attacking Saitama's soul. He's using a technique that bypasses the body and attacks the internal organs with a shockwave. He is still producing a physical force, he isn't attacking the mind or soul or something. While your internal organs are FAR less durable than your actual body.

They still scale to a tiny amount of that energy. Garou's attack, even ignoring Saitama's body, just isn't strong enough to hurt Saitama's organs.

Resistance would be if Saitama prevent the shockwave from entering his body in the first place. This is not stated in the series whatsoever, in fact we know it went through him.

Garou himself stated it penetrated his body.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I have read the chapter, multiple times in fact. My apologies but I disagree with you, I hope you can understand that linking the chapter isn't going to change anything.

Why does that attack having him in the air after his statement mean they aren't the same attack? When literally everything about them is the same. The only difference is that Garou doesn't say the name again. Which isn't something he is required to do at all.

I don’t agree with this logic complete, but at the same time, I can see where you are coming from.
I usually don’t assume multiple attacks being the same attack unless they were specifically mentioned to being the case ngl.

However, nonetheless, I still think limited resistance will just been fine with to begin with since there are multiple forms of durability negation.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

No that isn't how that works.

Fire, Ice, and Psychokinesis (I don't know how psychic powers work) do not depend on physical durability. Tanking fire is much different than withstanding physical force. A copper wire can withstand a 600 degree fire without damage, but a human would be burned by that same fire, but that same human can casually snap that copper wire.

Ice/Cold is the same but in the opposite direction. Physical durability has nothing to do with withstanding heat/cold.

Garou isn't attacking Saitama's soul. He's using a technique that bypasses the body and attacks the internal organs with a shockwave. He is still producing a physical force, he isn't attacking the mind or soul or something. While your internal organs are FAR less durable than your actual body.

They still scale to a tiny amount of that energy. Garou's attack, even ignoring Saitama's body, just isn't strong enough to hurt even Saitama's organs.

Why is it that attacking internal organs not considered good enough for Dura Neg all of a sudden? Why compare it to attacking the soul or mind now? Because we have it as an example on the page, we have people arguing for Garou using it to win in versus threads. He is still bypassing conventional means to hurt someone. This is considered Dura Neg on this site and Saitama was not affected by it due to his physicality making it ineffective.

I genuinely don't agree with removing it unless we actually remove attacking internals as part of Dura Neg, until then, I say just change it to Limited and that's it.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Why is it that attacking internal organs not considered good enough for Dura Neg all of a sudden? Why compare it to attacking the soul or mind now?

Garou's attack is without any doubt durability negation. When did I suggest it shouldn't be dura negation? However Garou's is limited dura negation. He cannot negate everyone's durability, since some people are just too durable. Even attacking their organs, you cannot hurt someone who is MANY times stronger/durable.

I'm arguing against resistance to dura negation for Saitama.

Since he didn't stop the attack from actually going through his body with resistance. That would indeed be resistance to Garou's dura negation.

Saitama is just so sturdy that Garou's attack hitting his organs is not strong enough to harm them.

My apologies, it seems I've very poor at explaining things. I can only hope you can have some patience with me, I don't want to cause any issues.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

One of their logic was the fact it was being vastly sturdy means Saitama should gain resistance.

Couldn’t argue with that since it’s technically “resistance”, though I disagree

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Garou's attack is without any doubt durability negation. When did I suggest it shouldn't be dura negation? However Garou's is limited dura negation. He cannot negate everyone's durability, since some people are just too durable. Even attacking their organs, you cannot hurt someone who is MANY times stronger/durable.

I'm arguing against resistance to dura negation for Saitama.

Since he didn't stop the attack from actually going through his body with resistance. That would indeed be resistance to Garou's dura negation.

Saitama is just so sturdy that Garou's attack hitting his organs is not strong enough to harm them.

My apologies, it seems I've very poor at explaining things. I can only hope you can have some patience with me, I don't want to cause any issues.

When you compared it to things like Soul or Mind Manipulation, it seemed you were belittling it, as I saw it. My apologies if I misinterpreted that.

I believe that the fact that he got hit by the attack head on and was not fazed by it is enough for a resistance, that's my stance. Him being sturdy enough to tank it is the proof for it, not against it. At most a Limited Resistance to this only.

That's fine, forgive me if I am being a bit aggressive myself. This is just my feelings on the matter.

 

[TheRustyOne]

One of their logic was the fact it was being vastly sturdy means Saitama should gain resistance.

Couldn’t argue with that since it’s technically “resistance”, though I disagree

Yeah but he says sturdier than the thing behind him.

Clearly he is talking about durability. Since it wouldn't make sense if he meant resistance. And wouldn't say the attack penetrated through him. However the attack did go through Saitama's body, since it shattered the thing behind him. Meaning he didn't stop the shockwave, since that would be resistance.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

One of their logic was the fact it was being vastly sturdy means Saitama should gain resistance.

Couldn’t argue with that since it’s technically “resistance”, though I disagree

You can not exactly disagree per se though since again resistance can been specified too.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Resistance to Garou's style of dura negation would be preventing the shockwave from reaching his organs in the first place. A shockwave is still physical force, just that Garou's ignores your body and hits the organs directly. To be resistant to this attack Saitama would need to prevent the shockwave from reaching his organs at all.

But nothing suggest the shockwave didn't travel through him. In fact Garou points out that it shattering the thing behind him means it did go through him. Just that he's way too damn sturdy, not that he has resistance and the shockwave didn't travel through him.

Remember, Garou's attack can't harm anyone who is MANY times stronger/durable. There is no reason to assume the attack did not pass through Saitama unless we have a statement. Since Saitama can just be FAR more durable than Garou is strong. We lack any statement that the shockwave didn't enter his body.

Garou believes that no one's organs can be that strong, but the scene with Saitama is meant to show that he is wrong. Saitama is just that strong.

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah I'm agreeing with Rusty

Like it's a difference between tanking a dura neg attack vs not letting the dura neg portion even work

And this would make Saitama's "resistance" only from people massively inferior to him, which I wouldn't even count as a resistance, just a weakness of the type of dura neg

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Saitama would need to prevent the shockwave

I don’t think resistance necessarily means “preventing something from happening” in this case.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yeah seems like I’m just confused the difference between resistance and durability in this case

it’s shockwave but it’s also attacking internal organs… which should typically be squishy, but Saitama’s organs definitely aren’t squishy and it doesn’t help that Garou bypassed bone and skin to get to organ

Yes, Garou has the ability to bypass durability. But he bypasses durability to attack internal structures that’s also have their own durability

And it’s limited because it’s shockwave based which can be tanked by vastly durable objects.

so what is the difference between resistance and durability… aw man.. if Saitama’s bones and flesh could be bypassed then Garou’s attack not even working shouldnt be resistance. That’s my conclusion, the organ is just that durable. I give up.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I'm also inclined to view this as a case of Saitama just being that durable. It would be erronous to assume that the organs of any human character would be the same as that of any regular humans regardless of strength or durability since organs aren't exactly isolated from any and all outside influences even if targeting organs counts as a form of Durability Negation due to organs being generally more vulnerable.