Removal of the Naruto Retsuden laser justification

[GTsek]

Will the justifications for the novel retsuden be removed from how they are now, and a Sub-relativistic for Orochimaru and Relativistic for Naruto base will be used? therefore, we can use Madara's feat and this retsuden feat for The Last Naruto.

 

[KLOL506]

M3X says he will re-do the feat.

And some slight modifications to the pixel-scaling, the red line for Madara extends a bit much from his actual foot heel.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Will the justifications for the novel retsuden be removed from how they are now, and a Sub-relativistic for Orochimaru and Relativistic for Naruto base will be used?

The only Retsuden feats that will be removed are the Naruto ones. Since he was heavily weakened and there's a solid chance he could've preemptively dodged most of them.

Orochimaru's thing is straightforward and the other Rel stuff I never questioned. Scaling people to Sub-Rel through Orochimaru seems... complicated and probab needs a CRT for that one.

 

[USklaverei]

So, I want to review Madara's talent (Relativistic), I even opened a CRT but it was closed at the time since there were many open, but I intend to go back with him to address this.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

So are we just going to put New Era Orochimaru at rela or we will also do it for Hiruzen?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

So are we just going to put New Era Orochimaru at rela or we will also do it for Hiruzen?

"New Era" Orochimaru and Hiruzen

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why would a New Era feat from Orochimaru scale to Hiruzen?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Guys, let's leave potential scaling for later, and not derail this CRT more than it needs to be.

 

[Qawsedf234]

True. Guess we'll wait for what M3X wants to do and go from there.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Since we are using the anime for Light Fang, I will recalc it using the anime.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well I didn't say that, I just said the anime can be used to justify that he did indeed avoid it after the beam came out.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Then we can just use the current feat

 

[KingTempest]

Where are you guys getting these values from?

Sub-Rel, Rel, how are you justifying this?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Ok so the following rating will be applied "Relativistic+, with FTL reactions"

• Naruto Part II (War Arc) - Has the feat
• Sasuke Part II - Scales to Naruto
• Madara - Scales to Naruto and Sasuke
• Kaguya / Hagoromo / Hamura - Upscales to Part II Naruto and Sasuke
• Kakashi (DMS) - Scales to Kaguya
• Naruto and Sasuke (New Era) - Scales from their teenage selves
• Momoshiki - Scales to New Era Naruto and Sasuke
• Kinshiki - Scales to New Era Sasuke
• Isshiki - Scales to New Era Sasuke and Naruto
• Delta - Scales to New Era Naruto
• Ada - Scales to Isshiki
• Code - Scales to Isshiki

Have I missed anyone that would scale?

 

[M3X_2.0]

We can upscale Jigen/Isshiki and Bayron Mode Naruto to FTL, since the value is 0.98c.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I can get behind that. Though what do we do about Ada and Code's rating then?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Actually, we kinda stopped scaling New Era characters to Part II God tiers, so idk how that would affect this scaling. We didn't have to worry about it before since they had their own feats to scale to.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Unknown for now. I don't even know if they have a profile.

 

[Damage3245]

Isn't the value 0.55c?

 

[M3X_2.0]

We are not using method 1.

 

[KingTempest]

Isn't the value 0.55c?

There's 2 ends

 

[PrinceofPein]

I have some issues
First, @M3X said the Japanese version never said dodge, can you please drop that?
Secondly, Naruto was stated to dodge the said beams multiple times in the novel so what's the issue exactly?? And from what was said he dodged the beams after they were released not before.

Then we have this one also, so what's the problem exactly?

See here what naruto deflected was the laser beam and not the gun "the laser beam fired hit the bottle"

P.S. I'm all for using the light fang feat also, I just don't understand this of removing the retsuden feat when they happened clearly

 

[M3X_2.0]

First, @M3X said the Japanese version never said dodge, can you please drop that?

Can you tell me the chapter again?

 

[Damage3245]

By the way, I don't think that the "FTL reactions" is valid.

The calc says this:

The time frame now
Time: 0.0000000027s
This is FTL reactions, 1.23x FTL

But the page on reaction speed says this:

Reaction speed has both a distance and a timeframe component, so all calculations that are completed for reaction speed cannot simply be a timeframe by itself.

Reaction speed is defined as a single movement in a defined timeframe, which a character has been shown capable of.

So would this actually be Relativistic+ reaction speed? Not FTL reaction speed.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Can you tell me the chapter again?

I think it will be 3

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can you tell me the chapter again?

The first one is from Chapter 2, the second is at the tail end of Chapter 3

 

[M3X_2.0]

For the first image, I went r*tarded mode and misread the thing. In english, it says "The laser beam, without curvature", in portuguese, it's said "the beam, without dodging/deviating/moving(?)". It's talking about how the laser went straight towards Naruto. My bad.

 

[GTsek]

The only Retsuden feats that will be removed are the Naruto ones. Since he was heavily weakened and there's a solid chance he could've preemptively dodged most of them.

Orochimaru's thing is straightforward and the other Rel stuff I never questioned. Scaling people to Sub-Rel through Orochimaru seems... complicated and probab needs a CRT for that one.

Naruto has 3 feats, the scan of last one was sent here, the enemy notices him distracted and shoots him with a gun that shoots photon beams. Naruto was distracted at the time of the shooting, and even so he dodge, this feat is not questionable like the others you approached at the OP. And there is also the fact that he fought physically with Orochimaru and keep up with him.

If Orochimaru's feat is accepted, the sick Naruto will scale anyway.

 

[PrinceofPein]

For the first image, I went r*tarded mode and misread the thing. In english, it says "The laser beam, without curvature", in portuguese, it's said "the beam, without dodging/deviating/moving(?)". It's talking about how the laser went straight towards Naruto. My bad.

Thanks


Anyway with what have said yes the light fang feat should be accepted and the novel justification still stays

 

[Auf]

An

Naruto has 3 feats, the scan of last one was sent here, the enemy notices him distracted and shoots him with a gun that shoots photon beams. Naruto was distracted at the time of the shooting, and even so he dodge, this feat is not questionable like the others you approached at the OP. And there is also the fact that he fought physically with Orochimaru and keep up with him.

If Orochimaru's feat is accepted, the sick Naruto will scale anyway.

I agree to this and this should definitely disprove the notion of him being weak as "average human"

Since it looks consistent plus the meteor smashing part

 

[GTsek]

A
Eu concordo com isso e isso deve definitivamente refutar a noção de que ele é fraco como "humano médio"

Uma vez que parece consistente, mais a parte de esmagamento do meteoro

Exactly.

Doesn’t make any sense that Orochimaru´s feat was accepted and Naruto´s last feat didn´t, so far no one here has commented against his latest feat or against his fight with Orochimaru.

And no, despite the statment from the novel, Naruto was not on the same level as an common civilian, the novel itself refutes this, an commom civilian isn't shinobi, this denomination is only for those who use chakra (mentioned in the informations of volume in the Boruto's manga). Naruto in this novel jumps from the mount of the Hokages to the ground, and also dodging a fireball launched by a scientific ninja weapon. All this added to the last feat and the fight with Orochimaru makes everything consistent for him.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Naruto has 3 feats

He has mostly one, with one people keep cutting out the previous sentence of him remembering how the beams work and likely dodging before it fired and the other one being vague enough to be either way.

Since it looks consistent plus the meteor smashing part

Wasn't a meteor and it was after what was weakening Naruto for the book's plot was damaged.

And there is also the fact that he fought physically with Orochimaru and keep up with him.

At no point in their fight did Orochimaru want to seriously battle Naruto. He just wanted to get rid of who was trying to kill him, which he did.

 

[M3X_2.0]

@Qawsedf234 can't we just upscale the characters to FTL and finish this? Feat was casual, the value is 1.01x from the SoL value. Saying that Naruto can't go 1.01 faster than a casual feat seems ridiculous to me.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

No, cause obviously spsm Naruto isn't much faster then edo Madara.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I'm talking about Naruto's own feat you dumbass

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

I'm talking about Naruto's own feat you dumbass

It was a joke.

 

[GTsek]

At no point in their fight did Orochimaru want to seriously battle Naruto. He just wanted to get rid of who was trying to kill him, which he did.

Orochimaru was fighting seriously, there is nothing to prove that he was not serious. He wanted to kill the enemy at anyway. As his intention was to kill the enemy, would make no sense that he would not go to the maximum of his physical capacity to deal with Naruto, because if he really was much superior as you suggest, he would deal with Naruto without problems, it isn't happened, he had to appeal to Ninjutsu because he was not able to beat Naruto only in Taijutsu.

And Naruto being without the ability to use the chakra doesn't mean that he is on the level of an commom human. It is mentioned in the manga that it is not necessary to use chakra to effect taijutsu movements (running, kicking, punching, dodging and etc ...), they directly use stamina to do this, as in Lee's case, only in some cases he uses chakra, which is when he open the gates. Lee is extremely fast and strong without using chakra, he uses only his own stamina and physical strength, and we know that he is far above an commom human. So any "inconsistency" you guys try to point out here is not a valid argument, since Naruto is basically in the same condition as Lee, without using chakra, but still has his natural physical power.

 

[USklaverei]

Ok so the following rating will be applied "Relativistic+, with FTL reactions"

I think the biggest problem with this calculation is to assume that Naruto made a whole move before the laser hit him, and to avoid this, he would only have to move half of his head.
Either we use anime to calculate, or we use half of his head to find the distance he crossed to avoid this.

 

[Purgy]

And Naruto being without the ability to use the chakra doesn't mean that he is on the level of an commom human. It is mentioned in the manga that it is not necessary to use chakra to effect taijutsu movements (running, kicking, punching, dodging and etc ...), they directly use stamina to do this, as in Lee's case, only in some cases he uses chakra, which is when he open the gates. Lee is extremely fast and strong without using chakra, he uses only his own stamina and physical strength, and we know that he is far above an commom human. So any "inconsistency" you guys try to point out here is not a valid argument, since Naruto is basically in the same condition as Lee, without using chakra, but still has his natural physical power.

Then why was it stated that falling debris would kill Naruto if he's physically as strong as usual?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I think the biggest problem with this calculation is to assume that Naruto made a whole move before the laser hit him, and to avoid this, he would only have to move half of his head.
Either we use anime to calculate, or we use half of his head to find the distance he crossed to avoid this.

This is not a problem, it's literally what happened. Naruto didn't move his head to dodge the beam, not only that. He also moved his body to do that. And this is already a lowball, considering I used the distance between Madara and Naruto, and not the distance between Naruto and the beam.