Removal of the Naruto Retsuden laser justification

[Qawsedf234]

Currently a supporting feat for the Relativistic ratings for Naruto is the two linked scenes: 1 2.

My argument is the following:

Naruto was unable to control chakra and was directly compared to normal humans

Naruto was noted as being completely unable to produce chakra in this scene

Naruto desperately tried to continue moving forward on the bike, moving onto parts of the rail that looked undamaged, but they soon reached their limit.

The rear wheel of the bike hits a screwed-up rail spike and with their current momentum, launches Naruto and Chihare into the air.

“Damn it!......” Why can’t I use chakra is a situation like this!?

Naruto twisted mid-air to catch Chihare’s waist, taking a position underneath her to catch her fall.

They were surrounded by thick steel bars and steel towers, things that’ll likely kill them as soon as they hit them, but the byakugan seems to help with the landing.

Its confirmed earlier by Sakura

Walking to match Naruto’s pace, Sakura’s voice cut out in a casual tone.

“The other day, when you came by the hospital to do a detailed examination. Just now I came up with a result. Your body’s completely healthy except for one abnormality...... your chakra system seems to be shutting down.”

“Chakra system?”

Yes, Sakura nodded before continuing. “If I pour my chakra into you, your wounds heal properly, and it doesn’t hurt you. Which means your body isn’t rejecting the chakra itself. Maybe the problem in the chakra system. If the Sage of Six Paths had the same symptoms, I wonder is the chakra system malfunctions due to the tailed beasts sealed in your body.”

“I see, but this is still just a hypothesis,”

Naruto looked down. “If my chakra system shuts down...... what will happen to me?”

“If the anomaly is your chakra tubes closing off, then you won’t die. You just won’t be able to use chakra for the rest of your life.”

“Just......” Naruto’s complexion grew white as the blood drained from his face. Naruto’s fighting style relied heavily on the amount of chakra he inherited from the nine tails.

Any situation where his chakra could no longer work, was frankly lethal

“this is a serious matter” Naruto murmured as Sakura nodded, letting out a deep breath.

“Though, at least I’m relieved. There’s no war going on right now, it’s ok if the hokage can’t use his chakra.” Surely, this may be so. However, for Naruto, who has been aiming to be hokage since his childhood, he was always naturally remaining strong in times like this.

Even after becoming the seventh hokage, that didn’t change.

“............”

Naruto couldn’t say anything anymore, he silently dragged his left leg along as it convulsed.

Finally it is directly stated that he is reduced to the strength of the general populous and has no superhuman characteristics.

Kakashi Hatake, Sakura Haruno, then Sasuke Uchiha. Guarding the 7th hokage was too extravagant today. Considering the strength of the hokage himself, this was overkill. Today’s inspection didn’t seem to be of important matters anyway.

In spite of that, could those rumors be true?

The 7th hokage was suffering from a serious illness, one that had weakened his combat power levels to that of the general public... according to prior gossip.

Hearing a story like this, you’d take it with a grain of salt, but it was soon becoming reality. If this weren’t the situation, this lineup of personnel would make your head spin.

Later on things like falling pieces of debris were noted as being able to kill him

They were surrounded by thick steel bars and steel towers, things that’ll likely kill them as soon as they hit them, but the byakugan seems to help with the landing.

The entire plot was about how him being at this far weaker state was a large issue and he's far below his norm.

The robots have a windup time, Naruto knows about said windup time, and the drones don't have incredibly accuracy
Naruto when depowered has time to shield someone else from the start of the firing process to before it actually fired

After this thought, the tip of its gun catches Naruto’s eye.

Its end glowing red. “......!!”

Protecting Chihare, Naruto suddenly changes his body’s position―― suddenly a tree branch grew from below and violently stabs the drone.

Naruto knows the exact tell when they're going to fire as well

Gazing steadily, he could make out its tip flashing red.

―― The photon gun seized from Yanaru emits a high-powered ray, the tip of the gun flashing red before
firing...... This was a sentence from the report of the attempted assassination of Naruto from the Land
of Stairs.

Shit, he followed that thought.

Which is the paragraph that precedes what we list as the first dodge in image one. Meaning that not only does Naruto know about when they're going to fire, there's a delay between it charging up and firing.

Finally the drones in the entire chase sequence in chapter two don't show any solid scenes of excellent marksmanship. Missing Naruto constantly and at one point instead of targeting the motorcycle they target the bridge Naruto was riding on to disable him.

What should do if my suggestion is taken?

Probably just use the previously proposed light-fang calc here. It scales to all the god tiers and is a more concrete showing with less issues anyways.

• The anime, while not prime canon, can be used to get a better detailed look at a scene if the manga is iffy on it. The anime just directly shows that Naruto avoided the beam, then swung around to avoid Madara swinging his head around
• There's no usual tell of Naruto's danger sense going off, which is usually displayed with a "!"
• Its consistent with other calcs we have and follows a general power trend
• Even the high end does not have either move at FTL speeds, meaning the question of Madara using a move "slower" than he should be isn't super big, since it would still be faster than his regular speed

Even if the above calc is questionable, the feat itself should still be usable for everyone.

So basically

• Remove the justification with the photons from Naruto's profile
• We give everyone who scales to So6P Naruto "Rel+, with FTL reactions" like the linked calc suggests.

 

[KingTempest]

Following

 

[Purgy]

I agree with the novel stuff

However, I think light fang should have its own thread instead of being a little addendum to this one, given how controversial it is most likely going to be.

 

[joshpiece]

Agree.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Following for now, but leaning towards agreeing.

 

[Qawsedf234]

However, I think light fang should have its own thread instead of being a little addendum to this one, given how controversial it is most likely going to be.

I felt like it'd be easier to just lump them together, rather than removing it (if accepted) to change their justifications and then just upgrade them to something else.

 

[Jvando]

Light Fang shouldn’t even that controversial. The main problem was that some people refused to accept the anime scene depicted no matter what despite it being a sort of secondary canon that we typically use to fill in scenes from manga. No one will agree on the manga depiction so anime it is and in the Anime, it’s not controversial. It really just boils down to if you agree that anime should be used to fill in certain scenes in manga that are hard to decipher (from Pixel scaling to feat interpretation, both of which we actually do)

As for the the main point in the OP, yeah makes sense, nothing I can say against the points presented.

 

[KingTempest]

I agree with the downgrade as well

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Jvando summed up my thoughts perfectly as I was writing them lol.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I agree... definitely not a little biased

 

[Qawsedf234]

No one will agree on the manga depiction so anime it is and in the Anime, it’s not controversial.

I feel it probably was harder a couple years ago, but honestly I felt we were a bit to pedant even back then. While the anime isn't main canon for Naruto, it being used to fill in the gaps for a scene that matches the source material should just be straight foreword.

 

[KingTempest]

Also, rereading over Jvando's points, they seem harmless, so I agree with the implementation of Light Fang into the scaling.

 

[Ren1999]

We give everyone who scales to So6P Naruto "Rel+, with FTL reactions" like the linked calc suggests

So basically naruto's reaction speed can be ftl and Speed Combat Attack is just Rel +

 

[Qawsedf234]

So basically naruto's reaction speed can be ftl and Speed Combat Attack is just Rel +

Yeah. It'd apply to all the God Tiers.

 

[M3X_2.0]

You receive: Light Fang

You lost: Retsuden Feats

 

[KingTempest]

You receive: Feat with value

You lost: Feat without value

Fair trade

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

You receive: Feat with value

You lost: Feat without value

Fair trade

Indeed.

Having read all the points so far, I agree with everything in the OP now.

 

[Ren1999]

Light Fang shouldn’t even that controversial. The main problem was that some people refused to accept the anime scene depicted no matter what despite it being a sort of secondary canon that we typically use to fill in scenes from manga. No one will agree on the manga depiction so anime it is and in the Anime, it’s not controversial. It really just boils down to if you agree that anime should be used to fill in certain scenes in manga that are hard to decipher (from Pixel scaling to feat interpretation, both of which we actually do)

As for the the main point in the OP, yeah makes sense.

I agree with you most people do not accept light fang madara anime only feats even though it can be a benchmark feats which i am surprised that here light fang madara anime is rejected while beam delta anime is accepted for naruto speed downgrade

 

[Cyberblader90]

doesnt orochimaru also react to this laser

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Light fang scaling is most definitely controversial I don’t think it would be wise to try and pass it under a crt where it’s not the main point.

Previous thread discussing it should probably be found to see what the points against it were.

 

[Cyberblader90]

does light fang even have a calc?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

does light fang even have a calc?

It's linked in the OP.

 

[Ren1999]

Light fang scaling is most definitely controversial I don’t think it would be wise to try and pass it under a crt where it’s not the main point.

can you explain why Scaling Light fang is Conventional

 

[Jvando]

Light fang scaling is most definitely controversial I don’t think it would be wise to try and pass it under a crt where it’s not the main point.

Previous thread discussing it should probably be found to see what the points against it were.

The points against it were actually very simple. No one agreed on the manga depiction and everyone said “Anime non-canon can’t be used Hur Dur...” despite it actually being used now more often than ever in VSBW to uncomplicate certain manga scenes. so it was just decided that for the sake of “staying safe” we don’t allow it.

As Qaws said, the ruling back then was way too strict especially when we had a perfectly simple depiction of the feat on screen. It honestly Shouldn’t be controversial, people just like to make it that way for whatever reason.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Light fang scaling is most definitely controversial I don’t think it would be wise to try and pass it under a crt where it’s not the main point.

Previous thread discussing it should probably be found to see what the points against it were.

No offense meant to you or Purgy, at all, but you guys are the only ones making a big deal out of this.
It was a controversial topic........a long time ago. Things change, arguments change, how arguments are viewed change, etc. Everyone seems okay with discussing it here, and it doesn't seem to be creating that big of a fuss or anything.

However, I do agree that the points previously used to dismiss the feat should be addressed here for closure.

 

[Cyberblader90]

what about this from the novel

 

[Jvando]

what about this from the novel

That’s interesting. If the Laser beams come from the drone, it would be a legit feat considering the drone have been stated to shoot “photons” which “causes electron emission (or something to that effect)” i.e. real light. Though best to keep the thread on topic

 

[Cyberblader90]

well this is kind of relevant. Would this be a legit feat for orochimaru?

 

[Qawsedf234]

what about this from the novel

You know what chapter its from?

 

[Cyberblader90]

i do not, sadly

 

[M3X_2.0]

You know what chapter its from?

IIRC 3 or 4.

 

[Qawsedf234]

IIRC 3 or 4.

I found the Drone fight scene from Chapter 3, but that part isn't in there. Which makes me wonder if the translation I'm using is generalizing stuff or not.

Naruto was cautious, not showing any surprise despite his tone. It was probably Furie who sent the drones to the underground laboratory when they were there. Was its purpose to eliminate Naruto?

Perhaps their abilities are different individually. There is one who self-destructs, and drones appeared one after another from the back of the hangar. They were flying like birds and slowly approaching. After that, a laser beam. Naruto took a light breath and stepped to grab them, then pulled them and hit the upper one into the central sphere of drones. These are precision machines. If they’re hit, they break. The snake released by Orochimaru thrust its fangs into the sphere.

The battle began. Drones VS Naruto & Orochimaru. There were at least a hundred of them, each with different capabilities, so it was hard to deal with them. Especially with the laser beam type and the self-destruct type. Orochimaru started spraying poisonous fog into the drones and ruthlessly executed the drones around him some of which started to self-destruct. As the tip of the frontal part of the drones started glowing red, the countdown to their suicide bomb started. A large number of snakes popped out of the mouth of Orochimaru. It filled the floor and started jumping at the drones.

“Wow!” – Naruto was surprised by the snake crawling at his feet and he lifted his right foot. Orochimaru grabbed Naruto’s leg and threw him up to the ceiling of the hangar up to 5 metres and was hung by a sprinkler attached to the ceiling.

“What are you doing, Orochimaru!”

“Find the pilot of the drones, it’s troublesome to deal with them one by one.”

While some programmes may have been installed to instruct the actions of the drones, it was more natural to think that some pilot was instructing them real-time based on the self-destruction pattern of the drones. Naruto looked down at the hangar, with his arm hooked in the sprinkler. The fierce battle of snakes VS drones was unfolding. The snakes made full use of the small turns their bodies could handle, and Orochimaru seemed to be having fun. Naruto wore the googles and carefully compared the flying ships in the hangar.

“That’s it.” – he felt a sign of chakra inside the ship that stopped near the entrance on the North side and let go of the sprinkler and jumped off.

Instead of landing directly on the ground, he grabbed the arm of the drone that passed by while falling. The drone that he jumped on shook and lowered its altitude, but surprisingly continued to fly without crashing, and on the contrary, stretched its muzzle straight to the tip of Naruto’s nose. Its muzzle was flashing red. Just before the laser beam was fired, Naruto forcibly changed the direction of drone, so that it would aim at the flying ship parked near the entrance. A few seconds later, the laser beam fired straight at the ship as intended. The wooden wall of the ship burnt out. The inside of the ship was changed into a huge studio. A man holding a laptop was near the bow. It was Furie. Naruto jumped there immediately and tried to do this calmly but he naturally became angry.

“It’s the first time we’re meeting face to face, Secretary Furie.”

 

[M3X_2.0]

The Retsuden books were translated first to portuguese, Kanji by Kanji. I can check the portuguese version if you want, since it's my native language.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The Retsuden books were translated first to portuguese, Kanji by Kanji.

If you can for for it

 

[Ren1999]

The Retsuden books were translated first to portuguese, Kanji by Kanji. I can check the portuguese version if you want, since it's my native language.

yes do it. But after completing this CRT first, for now we focus on the CRT first

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah if there is question between how a scene can be interpreted in the manga, and the anime clarifies one over the other, the interpretation with the anime backing is prolly the better one. I agree with using the light fang calc.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Okay I can't read the language but I think I hunted down the passage:

Y de repente cayó al suelo, deteniendo el conteo. Orochimaru lanzó una serpiente que metió su presa en la parte esférica.

Y con eso comenzó la batalla.

Drone contra Naruto y Orochimaru.

Pensando en la fuerza individualmente, no podía perder, pero la pregunta era cuánto.

Ade más de tener más de cien, cada uno tenía una habilidad diferente, por lo que podría llevar un tiempo saber cómo podrían contraatacar.

Los que se autodes truyen, los que disparan rayos láser. E...

"...
ATCHIN
!"

El sonido del estornudo se extendió al entorno y, rápidamente, Naruto miró hacia la fuente del sonido.

"atch.......ahchooo! at............ ..chin!"

Cubriéndose la cara con la punta del kimono, Orochimaru estornudaba.

Aparentemente, dentro de los drones había uno que tenía la capacidad de liberar veneno y terminó aspirándolo.

Como Orochimaru estaba lleno de aberturas, el zángano lanzador de láser apuntó hacia él.


¡......"Barbilla"! ¡Achin!"

Incluso siendo dominado por estornudos que no se detuvieron, Orochimaru reaccion ó rápidamente y saltó al lado derecho. Aunque se las arregló para desviarse
fácilmente del rayo láser, había un zángano en la dirección que se desvió y la hélice le cortó el hombro. No debe haber sido un daño significativo, pero la mirada de Orochimaru mos tró el sentimiento de humillación.

"Una mera máquina... cómo te atreves,

Atchin

, a infringirme..."

Orochimaru alegó plaga, pero no sirvió de nada. Los zánganos se aprovecharon de que estaba debilitado y empezaron a perseguirse hacia los Orochimaru. Un zángano se dirigía hacia la tubería, otro zángano comenzaba a contar para la autodestrucción.

Orochimaru acabó con los zánganos fríamente, pero su narizseguía molestándole.

 

[M3X_2.0]

This is spanish, I can translate that too.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah I guessed it wasn't Portuguese since the spelling had notable differences. But its the best I could find.

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

Anyone that doesn't support this thread will have to deal with this:

That being said, I agree.

Perhaps a thread discussing the difference between the manga and anime can be made after this one, as the latter shows that Naruto started to move after light fang already crossed a certain distance that the manga, and thus the calc, doesn't account for, but that can come later.