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1- Reinhard never uses this blessing in-character because he gather told him to not do so.
2- There's no reason to assume he would get this blessing, he could get any other, or not get any at all.
3- That's not even on the profile as a pontiatialy ability he can have.
Reinhard hasn't ever used it since he was a child because he was told it was wrong to forcefully alter peoples decisions. But SBA states that the characters will do what it takes to win without any kind of social morals or anything. In this case, I think him using it here is valid. And its not on his profile cause he deleted it, but that doesn't stop him from getting it back. If od laguna created it once, he can do it again.
1- Reinhard never uses this blessing in-character because he gather told him to not do so.
2- There's no reason to assume he would get this blessing, he could get any other, or not get any at all.
3- That's not even on the profile as a pontiatialy ability he can have.
1- Yeah, he doesn't use it in every day life because he does not need it & it's wrong to control a normal person in that way, and also because it's illegal. Both of these are true for killing a person as well but Reinhard obviously will kill people he fights.
2- If he believes he needs a Blessing and Od Laguna agrees then he recieves it. Given that he recieved the ability to tell salt from sugar, I think Od Laguna will agree to getting back the mind hax he has already recieved for a far less dire situation.
3- And the conceptual space hax isn't on Gojo's profile, so what?
Reinhard has instinctual reaction unrelated to his Blessings as well, them being cancelled out still means dodging via his insane skill would be simple.
This only apply If the character is bloodlust trought, SBA state of mind say the will try to win the battle in-character, which using this blessing is not for Rein.
1- Yeah, he doesn't use it in every day life because he does not need it & it's wrong to control a normal person in that way, and also because it's illegal.
Given that he recieved the ability to tell salt from sugar, I think Od Laguna will agree to getting back the mind hax he has already recieved for a far less dire situation.
Weird comparison and i failed How one correspond to another, but anyway Tappei did stated one time that Reinhard can't defeat Satella, but If could just wish to gain the blessing of mind changing he should right? Unless you want say Satella resist that.
Reinhard has instinctual reaction unrelated to his Blessings as well, them being cancelled out still means dodging via his insane skill would be simple.
Gojo Ball is Very big trought, Reinhard would have have a hard time getting out the way, and since he don't know about his blessings not working, he will probally get hit really hard by Gojo Ball. (Is allowed to make innuendos in this wiki?)
This only apply If the character is bloodlust trought, SBA state of mind say the will try to win the battle in-character, which using this blessing is not for Rein.
They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.
The context of why he doesn't currently use Mind-Changing is that he used it to manipulate Marcos, an important Royal Knight, which was both morally abhorrent and illegal.
If Mind-Changing let him defeat an opponent he cannot defeat otherwise, he will use it. Especially due to him believing there will be dire consequences should he lose.
Weird comparison and i failed How one correspond to another, but anyway Tappei did stated one time that Reinhard can't defeat Satella, but If could just wish to gain the blessing of mind changing he should right? Unless you want say Satella resist that.
The point is that the Od Laguna is willing to grant Blessings for even very minor problems, so it will respond to Reinhard's desire here.
Using Satella's unbeatable-ness for the argument just does not work. We have never even seen her full powers. The "omniscient" Flügel was unable to conceive of a way to defeat her despite things like soul hax, mind hax, and even EE existing. Satella says nothing about Reinhard's abilities, we simply know next to nothing about her.
The context of why he doesn't currently use Mind-Changing is that he used it to manipulate Marcos, an important Royal Knight, which was both morally abhorrent and illegal.
If Mind-Changing let him defeat an opponent he cannot defeat otherwise, he will use it. Especially due to him believing there will be dire consequences should he lose.
Is good that i already know what you about to say, since i already have a response to It.
Reinhard currently have deleted It the blessing, so he don't have it ready to use It. Rein gain a blessing when Od-Laguna think he needs one for the situation, or when he wishes for. What's the problem with that? Unless Reinhard does wish for the mind changing (In-character he is not gonna wish for the MC blessing, because of FRA) he mostly likely not get. The side of the argument of "Professor Xavier Reinhard" needs to prove that he will get the blessing 100% for this to be considered a good Wincon.
Using Satella's unbeatable-ness for the argument just does not work. We have never even seen her full powers. The "omniscient" Flügel was unable to conceive of a way to defeat her despite things like soul hax, mind hax, and even EE existing.
I think if not being on the profile prohibits an ability's use then Reinhard just beheads Gojo from 50m away. Mind-Changing not being there is just an oversight, he absolutely has access to it and will use it if physical attacks fail him due to SBA.
(The only character his physical attacks failed against is Regulus, who is also immune to any Blessing's hax so there'd be no point.)
Evidence of this has already been posted and accepted on the wiki as a part of his skill set. So unless you're gonna directly respond to the evidence, this vote is invalid.
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) - By manifesting the naturally occurring infinity into reality, Gojo can create an infinite space in which he controls the concepts of "near" and "far" effecting opponents, their energy, abilities, etc., to become incapable of making contact with Gojo due to said entities being unable to converge in the proper space. Applies to Gojo Satoru's limitless.
Evidence of this has already been posted and accepted on the wiki as a part of his skill set. So unless you're gonna directly respond to the evidence, this vote is invalid.
Gojo Ball is Very big trought, Reinhard would have have a hard time getting out the way, and since he don't know about his blessings not working, he will probally get hit really hard by Gojo Ball. (Is allowed to make innuendos in this wiki?)
Reinhard famously can gain any Divine Blessing whether it exists or not if he feels it is needed.
He had always said that Reinhard’s power was already a cheat, this guy, who was said to be beyond superhuman, was being loved way too much by the gods.
The Divine Protection he needed, that Divine Protection which he thought of, had arrived at his hands upon merely wishing it.
Having managed to reach a point with his thoughts, Subaru felt trapped between a rock and a hard place.
Reinhard could acquire a Divine Protection he thought of, if he wished for it. At least, what had happened to Reinhard today, could be expressed that way. Though that in and of itself was an extremely and reassuringly enviable power.
And Reinhard has used the Divine Blessing of Mind-Changing before as a child, he only removed it then due to getting into trouble with the fantasy CIA over it. He'd use it under SBA.
I also still disagree with him not resisting Gojo's mind hax- since he totally resisted passive layered mind hax capable of doing this:
Something was whispering into his ear. That overwhelming momentum approached non-sense. Subaru had no time to try to comprehend those words. Why? Because for Subaru, everything passing through his hearing and his vision were terrifying. If breathing were terrifying, then blinking was terrifying. But not blinking was very painful and unbearable. Even that pain existed only to be presented as a symbol of terror for Subaru, today. Feeling one pain means feeling the pain that he would feel the next time. That would make Subaru feel continuous, endless, infinite fear. So refusing to blink would not do. But, if he blinked, the world would fall into darkness for an instant. In that dark moment where nothing could be seen, he would not know what was happening. Although there might be nothing at all happening, he had no way of knowing for certain. Being unable to confirm anything was terrifying. If the unknown instinctively aroused fear, then to live was but an endless attempt to overcome the fear. In the end, that so-called fear had always been the feeling of weakness that began to plague a creature upon feeling a threat to its life. Being able to have this emotion was synonymous with being a lifeform. The function of this horror was similar to pain. After all, creatures who left their instincts of danger behind could not survive. To numb your fear was to condemn yourself.
Sirius: “Oh my? You two look to be losing your minds. Loving and emotionally enriching people can sometimes be very fragile. Ah, that is because Love is just painful. However, it is precisely because love exists that we can survive. This is really very difficult. Then, I shall fetch Tina-chan to help me. Lusbel-kun has worked hard.”
Being numb to the value of life meant violating an inherent ability to survive. In other words, fear was necessary. Therefore, there was absolutely nothing to be ashamed about even praising the performance of feeling so frightened, like right now. Of course, that kind of thing was just an assumption devoid any meaning. But, conducting such thought experiments was the best method to resist an overwhelming, dominating fear in the hope of finding a victorious breakthrough, was it not? Subaru certainly thought so. Lusbel, in front of him, began to convulse as his eyes rolled back in his head. The light of that young boy’s life was about to be extinguished.
That was sad and regrettable. However, Subaru could not be discouraged. He would struggle and fight to the end, wasn’t that what he had vowed? Even in that terrible, toilsome, damaging Trial last year. If not, why exactly did Subaru find it so sad and painful to survive, even so? Scary.
Very very scary. Terrifying. Everything was terrifying. Alive. Terrifying. Blinking. Terrifying. Breathing. Terrifying. Rancid. Terrifying. Disgusting. Terrifying. Scary. Scary. Scary. Scary. Scaryscaryscaryscaryscaryscaryscaryscaryscaryscaryscaryscary—
If you interpret this as too different from Gojo's mind hax for Reinhard to have any resistance, then that's a fine interpretation too, I just disagree.
And Reinhard has used the Divine Blessing of Mind-Changing before as a child, he only removed it then due to getting into trouble with the fantasy CIA over it. He'd use it under SBA.
For the record, that sounds like CIS, and SBA does not prevent CIS from taking effect. CIS is based on character flaws holding a character back in combat, and SBA assumes the combatants are in-character.
Considering his own father (Heinkel) made Reinhard swore to never use the Divine Blessing of the Mind-Changing again, that would go against Reinhard's character to re-obtain the same blessing that he was sworn to never use again, thus is not an in-character move for him.
Unless there is explicit canonical evidence that shows that Reinhard is willing to re-obtain such a blessing to use again, Mind Manipulation would not be an in-character move for Reinhard. If you have any actual explicit scans that shows Reinhard is willing to do such (and not make assumptions that he would be willing to do something that's against his character to attempt to win), then please do provide it for the others to see.
Sure, but that's not the problem, the thing is Reinhard can gain any blessing yeah, but we don't know If
1- he will gain the mind changing
2- he is gonna gain another blessing
3- If is gonna fast enough before Gojo just expand his domain
3:15
And Reinhard has used the Divine Blessing of Mind-Changing before as a child, he only removed it then due to getting into trouble with the fantasy CIA over it. He'd use it under SBA.
I was eating breakfeast, and Deathnoodles already respond, thanks
For the record, that sounds like CIS, and SBA does not prevent CIS from taking effect. CIS is based on character flaws holding a character back in combat, and SBA assumes the combatants are in-character.
He never resisted that, there's no situation when Sirius try to do this against Reinhard, and he resisted what Subaru dies for. The moments that Reinhard appeared, she start to coach everyone in making Reinhard kill her, in each she would Just share the pain of here into everyone else. So basically, she never try to kill Reinhard using his authority on the first place.
If you interpret this as too different from Gojo's mind hax for Reinhard to have any resistance, then that's a fine interpretation too, I just disagree.
That's not even a matter of interpretation, the two ability work complety different and do different things, claiming that they work the same, so Rein resist one (which he never did) that means he resist the other, you would need to be right or wrong here, there's no interpretation here.
Sure, but that's not the problem, the thing is Reinhard can gain any blessing yeah, but we don't know If
1- he will gain the mind changing
2- he is gonna gain another blessing
I mean Mind-Changing is a Blessing we know exists know he has used, and would help him win.
I think suggesting he'd gain anything like Blessing of the Soul of Language or Blessing of Clairvoyance, would be dumb because it'd be useless in a fight, and suggesting he gets a Blessing we have no idea exists or not is on the edge of NLF.
For the record, that sounds like CIS, and SBA does not prevent CIS from taking effect. CIS is based on character flaws holding a character back in combat, and SBA assumes the combatants are in-character.
Considering his own father (Heinkel) made Reinhard swore to never use the Divine Blessing of the Mind-Changing again, that would go against Reinhard's character to re-obtain the same blessing that he was sworn to never use again, thus is not an in-character move for him.
Unless there is explicit canonical evidence that shows that Reinhard is willing to re-obtain such a blessing to use again, Mind Manipulation would not be an in-character move for Reinhard. If you have any actual explicit scans that shows Reinhard is willing to do such (and not make assumptions that he would be willing to do something that's against his character to attempt to win), then please do provide it for the others to see.
If it were 4-year-old Reinhard I would consider this to be CIS, however current-day Reinhard has an awful relationship with his father, and he goes against what he asks of him in a very big way when he
kills his own resurrected grandmother
despite the begging of his father and grandfather.
This act of killing someone he loves is one of the greatest showings that he forces his own thoughts and feelings down as irrelevent before his heavy burden as a "hero". His character is such that he will do anything to protect innocent and carry out his role.
Under SBA he believes there will be grave consequences should he lose, essentially the only CIS that holds him back in character is that he will never knowingly kill an innocent person. It would in fact be out of character for him not to use the abilities at his disposal in such a situation, should physical power fail him.
He never resisted that, there's no situation when Sirius try to do this against Reinhard, and he resisted what Subaru dies for. The moments that Reinhard appeared, she start to coach everyone in making Reinhard kill her, in each she would Just share the pain of here into everyone else. So basically, she never try to kill Reinhard using his authority on the first place.
That's not even a matter of interpretation, the two ability work complety different and do different things, claiming that they work the same, so Rein resist one (which he never did) that means he resist the other, you would need to be right or wrong here, there's no interpretation here.
I interpret overloading a person's mind and senses to kill them as being fairly similar, even if what exactly overloads them is different. It's fine if you disagree.
True, but again is not on the profile not even in the pontentially section so we can use here. The Conceptual Manipulation is atleast already accepted.
I din't say he use immediality, i just say that he probally would use first than Reinhard gaining a blessing. Gojo need to do a hand sign to do so, and the fight is over, while Reinhard would need to see he can't virtually do anything except gaining a blessing he never uses.
Gojo is gonna do Infinite Void First for most of the fights.
If it were 4-year-old Reinhard I would consider this to be CIS, however current-day Reinhard has an awful relationship with his father, and he goes against what he asks of him in a very big way when he
kills his own resurrected grandmother
despite the begging of his father and grandfather.
The grandmother that is about to kill both, yeah i can see why Reinhard would disregard they wishes to do so. I don't see how he would disregard the mind thing trought.
This act of killing someone he loves is one of the greatest showings that he forces his own thoughts and feelings down as irrelevent before his heavy burden as a "hero". His character is such that he will do anything to protect innocent and carry out his role.
essentially the only CIS that holds him back in character is that he will never knowingly kill an innocent person. It would in fact be out of character for him not to use the abilities at his disposal in such a situation, should physical power fail him.
Ok, so you just prove that he probally would use the blessing If Gojo is a danger to a bunch of people, but since this case is not applicable here, his CIS is gonna prevent for him to do so.
Well, i guess there's is some chance of him getting the blessing, but since in-character he hardly would in using, Gojo would probally indo dump him before.
We don't know How his blessing work, If is by touch, by telephaty, by his Voice, by visual contact.
Is kind hard to judge a wincon by a ability that we don't even know How he uses.
I don't know from where you got that she can share troughts, but ignoring that, the method of Sirius to overload people emotions into infinity is bassicaly make a loop between the people that are at the receiving end of the power, kinda like a figure eight that increases the emotions felt between them till they rise to the point of fatality (EX: when she links Subaru and Lusbel together and they get increasingly scared until both of them die of sheer terror)
So Sirius method of overloading people senses is basically she make person A scared >>> she shares this feeling with person B >>> make person A feels Person B fears >>> make person A fear connects with person B and repeat.
Not really, since Sirius and Gojo powers are not the same in anyway, Gojo makes the target process infinity information in a speed rate of 0.2, while Sirius authority just make them feel her emotions and share also her senses. Not the same thing.
I interpret overloading a person's mind and senses to kill them as being fairly similar, even if what exactly overloads them is different. It's fine if you disagree.
True, but again is not on the profile not even in the pontentially section so we can use here. The Conceptual Manipulation is atleast already accepted.
Neither of the abilities are on either of the characters profiles.
The characters do in fact seem to have these abilities however, as Gojo's was accepted in a thread and Reinhard's is very explicitly available to him:
Heinkel: "If only Marcos would have listened to me more..."
Reinhard: "Marcos…?"
Heinkel: "Oh, he's a friend of my dad. He's difficult, but that's just who he is. He's a stubborn, stubborn man. When I asked him to come back to the Order, he was a little..."
Reinhard: "...would you be happy if he came back?"
Heinkel: "Hmm? Yeah, that would be great."
Talking like this, the father and son slowly returned to the brightly lit streets. Hearing Heinkel's words, Reinhard in his arms nodded softly.
Reinhard: "I'm sorry. I just wanted to help you father. Are you mad at me?"
Heinkel: "I'm not angry-"
He was about to reassure him, but Heinkel hesitated.
He was happy about how Reinhard felt. It was nice for any father to have their son think about them so fondly. It was the kind of thing he wanted to smile about, but then he remembered what the man had said earlier.
Reinhard has the "Divine Protection of Mind-Changing" that could overthrow entire nations.
I din't say he use immediality, i just say that he probally would use first than Reinhard gaining a blessing. Gojo need to do a hand sign to do so, and the fight is over, while Reinhard would need to see he can't virtually do anything except gaining a blessing he never uses.
Gojo is gonna do Infinite Void First for most of the fights.
Due to Reinhard's ungodly intuition, Mind-Changing is likely to be at least the second thing he tries. Upon realising physical attacks won't work he'd use a non-physical attack, mind hax being the only non-physical attack available to him iirc.
Yeah his death, that's the grave consequence, is not like he think Gojo gonna murder his father and grandfather, or a Innocent people. Ok, so you just prove that he probally would use the blessing If Gojo is a danger to a bunch of people, but since this case is not applicable here, his CIS is gonna prevent for him to do so.
Well, i guess there's is some chance of him getting the blessing, but since in-character he hardly would in using, Gojo would probally indo dump him before.
Based on SBA he should regard Gojo with the same level of threat like, as a Witch Cultist- to be analogous, as:
They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.
Mind-Changing's use is a criminal offence that can be punished severely, which is why he was threatened to erase it as a child.
There is nothing that suggests Reinhard considers Mind-Changing to be outside some sort of "moral code" when dealing with a grave threat- unless you think Heinkel shouting about how it's wrong to toddler Reinhard (explicitly to get the fantasy CIA to leave them alone) was taken to heart by his now estranged 20-year-old son that he openly despises. Gojo is not being protected by the law or social norms here.
I don't know from where you got that she can share troughts, but ignoring that, the method of Sirius to overload people emotions into infinity is bassicaly make a loop between the people that are at the receiving end of the power, kinda like a figure eight that increases the emotions felt between them till they rise to the point of fatality (EX: when she links Subaru and Lusbel together and they get increasingly scared until both of them die of sheer terror)
So Sirius method of overloading people senses is basically she make person A scared >>> she shares this feeling with person B >>> make person A feels Person B fears >>> make person A fear connects with person B and repeat.
The Authority's foundation is to force sensations, feelings, emotions, all that jazz, upon a person's body/mind/soul. Infinite fear is just an application of this process. It is a singular power.
Reinhard is unaffected by the very foundation of this hax- forcing sensations, feelings, emotions, all that jazz, upon a person's body/mind/soul.
Just being in Sirius' presence, seeing her, hearing her voice, will put a person under her hax. He fought her & spent an entire month with her, along with Felt.
Sirius cannot share to Reinhard in the first place, so of course she can't polarize it to infinity and cause death.
Not really, since Sirius and Gojo powers are not the same in anyway, Gojo makes the target process infinity information in a speed rate of 0.2, while Sirius authority just make them feel her emotions and share also her senses. Not the same thing.
Of course they aren't the exact same powers, they're from totally different series.
I just believe that the basis of their powers are similar enough that, shockingly, Reinhard's mind hax resistence will let him resist mind hax.
I've shared why I think Reinhard wins (in fact imo this is a stomp match for him, I don't think Gojo has a viable wincon) and you have shared why you think he doesn't, I don't want to keep going in circles, we can just agree to disagree at this point.
My personal opinion is that Sirius's authority is way too similar to Gojo's
Its practically the same concept of infinite overloading of the brain, except it takes it a step further and even affects the soul. I really dont see how its different enough to not be considered a resistance
