Jujutsu Kaisen Hax/ Ability Additions Pt. 2

[Dr._whiteee]

Hello everyone, this thread is a continuation of this thread which became increasingly disorganized and stalled over quite some time. I will briefly encompass most of the proposed additions in this thread with available scans. I hope to provide more clarity so we can decide the proposal's fate and move on swiftly to adding accepted abilities.

• Energy Manipulation and Cursed Manipulation - All sorcerers and curses should have this. (Sorcerers are able to curse each other and use curse energy) Everyone except Toji and Maki
• Power Nullification - For users of domain amplification, it is compared directly to simple domain techniques and stated to nullify his limitless technique making him vulnerable to attacks. Granted to Jogo, Hanami, and Gojo.
• Accelerated Development - Maki states that certain sorcerers develop more rapidly under real-life scenarios in which consequences exist. Even someone like Yuji, who was no cursed technique or domain expansion, displays incredible progress after encountering dangerous situations and powerful foes. Yuta would display this power in full effect after Maki's statement to him. This should apply to exceptional sorcerers who have shown such potential such as Yuji, Yuta, Gojo, etc.
• Selective Incorporeality/Invulnerability/Intangability - High-grade cursed spirits such as Jogo, Hanami, Dagon (and presumably Mahito) will continue to exist in essence, even if in different forms. Furthermore, cursed spirits do not appear on video capturing devices and the sounds they produce are also imperceptible to humans. Cursed spirits can latch onto human hosts and cause physical strain without the human realize they are being affected by the curse or it displacing any objects in space, only being somewhat aware through the form of dreams. Even humans capable of seeing cursed spirits cannot injure or otherwise affect them without cursed energy. It is noted that only low grade spirits can selectively phase through solid matter.
• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) - By manifesting the naturally occurring infinity into reality, Gojo can create an infinite space in which he controls the concepts of "near" and "far" effecting opponents, their energy, abilities, etc., to become incapable of making contact with Gojo due to said entities being unable to converge in the proper space. Applies to Gojo Satoru's limitless.
• Void Manipulation - By combining the polar opposite infinities of Red and Blue, Gojo is able to create Hollow Purple, an imaginary mass which he fires at his opponents to erase them from reality [1][2]. Such properties are given "void" [1] [2] characteristics and seen cleaving through anything it encompasses without any environmental impact that would denote a physical process. Applies to Gojo Satoru's Hollow Purple technique.
• Information Manipulation (Type 1) - For Gojo's domain expansion Unlimited Void which can input infinite amounts of information into his target. This effect is powerful enough to put a high-level cursed spirit like Jogo into a catatonic state unable to process anything, and whose effects knocked regular humans unconscious and would require two months of rehabilitation to heal from, despite only being subjected to only 0.2 seconds worth of the information stream.
• Information Manipulation (Type 2) - Both the body and the soul are underlined by more fundamental information. Principal Yaga utilized these mechanics to create his cursed spirit dolls and birth the existence of Panda by copying soul information. Ogami is a cursed energy user who utilizes her technique to summon the "body information" of a desired target without also dragging over the soul/personality. Further bolstering this point is the fact that Ogami's target in the manga was able to retain his memories, skills, and personality strictly from their body information. Finally, Mahito utilizes this to manipulate soul information and thus can affect both the souls and bodies of his target. Mahito himself explains that human bodies are "controlled by these concepts" that interact with the human soul resulting in mechanical processes. Mahito can also configure his body and the bodies of his captives, altering the size and shape of his victims, and being able to completely change his biological composition to turn into differing life and inorganic matter. Grade 1 Sorcerors+ would also get Resistance to this via Nanami resisting Mahito's transfiguration attempt.
• Non-Physical Interaction - Applies to concepts (type 3), souls, and information. Cursed energy both births cursed spirits (and also humans), and allows interaction with them. Certain spirits being able concepts realized by collective consciousness/unconsciousness of humans without active control over cursed energy. All of this of course being underlined by information that cursed energy can also interact with. Cursed energy also being needed to exorcise spirits. A "curse" as defined by Kenjaku (one of the most knowledgeable people in the series) being something bordering "dream and reality" which harkens back to Sukuna's interaction with Yuji as the latter was dying, both existing in a different state of time than reality.
• Cursed energy causes humans to become ill, corrupted, and eventually die. Regular humans have little to no cursed resistance [2] [3] and are vulnerable to cursed physiology clashing with theirs. Sorcerors obviously get resistance.
• Curses should get portal creation [2]
• Domain Users should get limited Subjective Reality. Domain Expansion involves realizing one's innate domain with skill and imagination which is described as "inside the heart" and clearly exist in an abstract state outside of the normal flow of time (evidenced by Yuji and Sukuna being able to deal despite Itadori being on the brink of death). This is further evidenced by the existence of cursed spirits who simply summon their innate domain into reality such as Imaginary Vengeful Cursed Spirit Kuchisake and Sukuna. This practice being compared to drawing on air without a canvas in comparison to regular domain expansion (which creates its own space hence the "canvas").
• Gojo gets teleportation of others (via a drawn barrier)
• Kenjaku gets biological manipulation and empowerment.
• Sorcerors get enhanced physical stats and senses simply by being invigorated by cursed energy which may also back up Gojo's method of using "instinct" when facing a threat without cursed energy signature.
• As discussed and cited earlier in the thread sorcerers will get extra sensory perception for sensing cursed energy, sensing their own souls, and seeing residuals/jujutsu in general.

Agree: DueDate8898, Milly_Rocking_Bandit, speedster 352, GTsek, Shey, Deceived, AdNiBN002, ShadowWhoWalks. BOEGVELD, LIFE_OF_KING [10]

Neutral: AdNiBN002 (regarding EE/Void manip and Incorporeality), LIFE_OF_KING (unsure about EE/Void Manip) [2]

Disagree: BOEGVELD (disagrees with EE/Void manip, portal creation & resistance to Information manip type 2), ShadowWhoWalks (disagrees with EE/Void manip, Incorporeality, and portal creation) [2]

 

[Duedate8898]

So I agree with most of these, but the ones I don't agree with are:

Accelerated Development for all sorcerers (Maki's statement doesn't just apply to sorcerers but herself, and in fact is probably just a note on how people work in general. This is something that should only be given to those that show it, such as Yuji, Megumi, Mahito, Yuta etc. This isn't shown to be consistent with all sorcerers, nor is Maki really a good authority on such a concept so I don't think it's really proper to apply this to any who don't show the feats otherwise)

For the Selective Incorporeality/Invulnerability/Intangability, Invulnerability is the way to go since we currently have no profiles for low-tier cursed spirits who would be the only ones to have intangibility or selective In-corporeality.

Everything else looks fine I think.

 

[Deceived3596]

Following

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Following2

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Agree with everything.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

So I agree with most of these, but the ones I don't agree with are:

Accelerated Development for all sorcerers (Maki's statement doesn't just apply to sorcerers but herself, and in fact is probably just a note on how people work in general. This is something that should only be given to those that show it, such as Yuji, Megumi, Mahito, Yuta etc. This isn't shown to be consistent with all sorcerers, nor is Maki really a good authority on such a concept so I don't think it's really proper to apply this to any who don't show the feats otherwise)

I am fine with this.

For the Selective Incorporeality/Invulnerability/Intangability, Invulnerability is the way to go since we currently have no profiles for low-tier cursed spirits who would be the only ones to have intangibility or selective In-corporeality.

Incorp would still work for spirits as well. Invulnerability doesn't touch upon the fact that they can't be seen, heard, etc. Pretty much consist of something that is not physical in nature. I think leaving the note about intang being something only low level curses can do since this will likely be added to cursed physiology and should be indexed Imo.

Everything else looks fine I think.

Awesome, thanks for your input.

 

[Duedate8898]

Incorp would still work for spirits as well. Invulnerability doesn't touch upon the fact that they can't be seen, heard, etc. Pretty much consist of something that is not physical in nature. I think leaving the note about intang being something only low level curses can do since this will likely be added to cursed physiology and should be indexed Imo.

Incorporeality doesn't cover the not being seen or heard stuff though. For that, Invisibility is what'll cover it. But I see incorpearlity working otherwise so I can approve it. And I agree that the low level curses intang should be indexed, but I thought this thread might just be for additions to profiles now, so it wouldn't have much place on any of them except for the justification section for NPI. So as long as intangibility is going somewhat separate from the profiles, I'm fine.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Grade 1 Sorcerors would also get Resistance to this via Nanami resisting Mahito's transfiguration attempt.

Curses should get portal creation [2]

Don't think we scale abilities and resistances unless it's stated they do.

Applies to Gojo Satoru's Hollow Purple technique.

Nothing states Hollow Purple erases stuff from existence.

Rest seems fine ig.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Don't think we scale abilities and resistances unless it's stated they do.

Nanami survived thanks to the cursed energy protecting him, and that's it. Other comparable or more advanced users obviously have the same resistance

 

[Deceived3596]

I basically agree with that Duedate currently agrees with tbh.

Existence Erasure - By combining the polar opposite infinities of Red and Blue, Gojo is able to create Hollow Purple, an imaginary mass which he fires at his opponents to erase them from reality [1][2]. Such properties are given "void" [1] [2] characteristics and seen cleaving through anything it encompasses without any environmental impact that would denote a physical process. Applies to Gojo Satoru's Hollow Purple technique.

Shouldn't this be more so Void Manipulation instead of Existence Erasure? especially with the fact Hollow Purple contains "void" like characteristics?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Selective Incorporeality/Invulnerability/Intangability - High-grade cursed spirits such as Jogo, Hanami, Dagon (and presumably Mahito) will continue to exist in essence, even if in different forms.

They continue to exist in the sense that negative emotions about volcanoes/forests/water/humanity will exist and overflow to create Cursed Spirits from the same themes. But would they really 'the same character' if anything but their theme can be different? I don't think there is anything preventing multiple high-grade Cursed Spirits from the same theme from existing at the same time either (assuming the older one survives for a long time). Them being 'reborn' is too metaphorical to apply imo.

Existence Erasure - By combining the polar opposite infinities of Red and Blue, Gojo is able to create Hollow Purple, an imaginary mass which he fires at his opponents to erase them from reality. Such properties are given "void" [1] [2] characteristics and seen cleaving through anything it encompasses without any environmental impact that would denote a physical process. Applies to Gojo Satoru's Hollow Purple technique.

What is the evidence that Hollow Purple erases the opponent from reality, instead of just slamming them at high speed?

Information Manipulation (Type 1) - For Gojo's domain expansion Unlimited Void which can input infinite amounts of information into his target. This effect is powerful enough to put a high-level cursed spirit like Jogo into a catatonic state unable to process anything, and whose effects knocked regular humans unconscious and would require two months of rehabilitation to heal from, despite only being subjected to only 0.2 seconds worth of the information stream.

Just a note that we should emphasize that Gojo adds information at a ratio of half a year's worth of information within 0.2 seconds, so not to give a false impression that an infinite amount of information is added instantly.

Curses should get portal creation [2]

This is from interaction with an incomplete Domain Expansion created by a Finger Bearer, and not a general ability of Cursed Spirits. Plus the character opening the portals are Death Paintings, thus they have a physical body and are much stronger than regular Cursed Spirits.

Agree with the rest.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Nanami survived thanks to the cursed energy protecting him, and that's it. Other comparable or more advanced users obviously have the same resistance

Is there any evidence suggesting other users are also subconsciously covering their soul in magical power after recognizing their own soul?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Is there any evidence suggesting other users are also subconsciously covering their soul in magical power after recognizing their own soul?

It’s subconsciously protecting their soul or recognizing it. We can prove this, because even Mahito doubts he can one-shot Todo. Todo is the same guy notes the way to becoming stronger is flowing CE your entire body. One exists in their world with their entire existence, body and soul.

Then, here comes Yuta Okkotsu, who his entire body and weapon are constantly surging with CE.

So, yes, it is applicable.

 

[PowerToScale]

Gojo should have void manipulation as even his red technique he creates a void when fighting Jogo for the first time.

 

[GTsek]

Everything looks fine, I agree.

 

[speedster352]

I agree

 

[AdNiBN002]

So I agree with most of these, but the ones I don't agree with are:

Accelerated Development for all sorcerers (Maki's statement doesn't just apply to sorcerers but herself, and in fact is probably just a note on how people work in general. This is something that should only be given to those that show it, such as Yuji, Megumi, Mahito, Yuta etc. This isn't shown to be consistent with all sorcerers, nor is Maki really a good authority on such a concept so I don't think it's really proper to apply this to any who don't show the feats otherwise)

Previously I thought of the statement as just a figure of speech but looking back at this, Mai seems to refer to "suffering making us stronger" as something that's consistent throughout Sorcery, with Maki and Mai actually being an exception rather than the rule.

 

[Shey]

• Energy Manipulation and Cursed Manipulation - All sorcerers and curses should have this. (Sorcerers are able to curse each other and use curse energy) Everyone except Toji and Maki
• Power Nullification - For users of domain amplification, it is compared directly to simple domain techniques and stated to nullify his limitless technique making him vulnerable to attacks. Granted to Jogo, Hanami, and Gojo.

Agree

• Accelerated Development - Maki states that certain sorcerers develop more rapidly under real-life scenarios in which consequences exist. Even someone like Yuji, who was no cursed technique or domain expansion, displays incredible progress after encountering dangerous situations and powerful foes. Yuta would display this power in full effect after Maki's statement to him. This should apply to exceptional sorcerers who have shown such potential such as Yuji, Yuta, Gojo, etc.

Agree

• Selective Incorporeality/Invulnerability/Intangability - High-grade cursed spirits such as Jogo, Hanami, Dagon (and presumably Mahito) will continue to exist in essence, even if in different forms. Furthermore, cursed spirits do not appear on video capturing devices and the sounds they produce are also imperceptible to humans. Cursed spirits can latch onto human hosts and cause physical strain without the human realize they are being affected by the curse or it displacing any objects in space, only being somewhat aware through the form of dreams. Even humans capable of seeing cursed spirits cannot injure or otherwise affect them without cursed energy. It is noted that only low grade spirits can selectively phase through solid matter.

Agree with Incorporeality
The Selective Intangibility for low level curses I agree, higher level curses don't exactly have this but it's instead some sort of invulnerability
So Agree I guess

• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) - By manifesting the naturally occurring infinity into reality, Gojo can create an infinite space in which he controls the concepts of "near" and "far" effecting opponents, their energy, abilities, etc., to become incapable of making contact with Gojo due to said entities being unable to converge in the proper space. Applies to Gojo Satoru's limitless.

Agree

• Existence Erasure - By combining the polar opposite infinities of Red and Blue, Gojo is able to create Hollow Purple, an imaginary mass which he fires at his opponents to erase them from reality [1][2]. Such properties are given "void" [1] [2] characteristics and seen cleaving through anything it encompasses without any environmental impact that would denote a physical process. Applies to Gojo Satoru's Hollow Purple technique.

Disagree, it should be this instead

• Information Manipulation (Type 1) - For Gojo's domain expansion Unlimited Void which can input infinite amounts of information into his target. This effect is powerful enough to put a high-level cursed spirit like Jogo into a catatonic state unable to process anything, and whose effects knocked regular humans unconscious and would require two months of rehabilitation to heal from, despite only being subjected to only 0.2 seconds worth of the information stream.
• Information Manipulation (Type 2) - Both the body and the soul are underlined by more fundamental information. Principal Yaga utilized these mechanics to create his cursed spirit dolls and birth the existence of Panda by copying soul information. Ogami is a cursed energy user who utilizes her technique to summon the "body information" of a desired target without also dragging over the soul/personality. Further bolstering this point is the fact that Ogami's target in the manga was able to retain his memories, skills, and personality strictly from their body information. Finally, Mahito utilizes this to manipulate soul information and thus can affect both the souls and bodies of his target. Mahito himself explains that human bodies are "controlled by these concepts" that interact with the human soul resulting in mechanical processes. Mahito can also configure his body and the bodies of his captives, altering the size and shape of his victims, and being able to completely change his biological composition to turn into differing life and inorganic matter. Grade 1 Sorcerors would also get Resistance to this via Nanami resisting Mahito's transfiguration attempt.

Agree, but I think it should be limited as multiple tries would eventually do him in and Soul Manip resistance should go with this too

• Non-Physical Interaction - Applies to concepts (type 3), souls, and information. Cursed energy both births cursed spirits, and allows interaction with them. Certain spirits being able concepts realized by collective consciousness/unconsciousness of humans without active control over cursed energy. All of this of course being underlined by information that cursed energy can also interact with. Cursed energy also being needed to exorcise spirits.
• Cursed energy causes humans to become ill, corrupted, and eventually die. Regular humans have little to no cursed resistance [2] [3] and are vulnerable to cursed physiology clashing with theirs. Sorcerors obviously get resistance.

Agree

• Curses should get portal creation [2]

First case was as a result of the finger bearers domain, doesn't really justify giving it to curses in general, the 2nd case on the other hand I'm not sure

Neutral leaning on agree

because it's not an ability that's common among higher grade curses to use either

• Domains should get limited Subjective Reality. Domain Expansion involves realizing one's innate domain with skill and imagination which is described as "inside the heart" and clearly exist in an abstract state outside of the normal flow of time (evidenced by Yuji and Sukuna being able to deal despite Itadori being on the brink of death). This is further evidenced by the existence of cursed spirits who simply summon their innate domain into reality such as Imaginary Vengeful Cursed Spirit Kuchisake and Sukuna. This practice being compared to drawing on air without a canvas in comparison to regular domain expansion (which creates its own space hence the "canvas").
• Gojo gets teleportation of others (via a drawn barrier)
• Kenjaku gets biological manipulation and empowerment.
• Sorcerors get enhanced physical stats and senses simply by being invigorated by cursed energy which may also back up Gojo's method of using "instinct" when facing a threat without cursed energy signature.
• As discussed and cited earlier in the thread sorcerers will get extra sensory perception for sensing cursed energy, sensing their own souls, and seeing residuals/jujutsu in general.

Agree

 

[BOEGVELD]

Mahito doubts he can one-shot Todo

Yeah, due the state he was in and Todo being at full health. Not because Todo was protecting his soul with CE.

the way to becoming stronger is flowing CE your entire body.

CE flowing through your body and using it to protect your soul are two completely different things.

 

[AdNiBN002]

Yeah, due the state he was in and Todo being at full health. Not because Todo was protecting his soul with CE.

Mahito doubting his ability to one-shot Todo, while directly referring to the health of Todo's soul is pretty indicative of Todo also maintaing his souls' shape.
We also see Mahito directly referring to Nanami when questioning whether or not he could one-shot Nobara.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yeah, due the state he was in and Todo being at full health. Not because Todo was protecting his soul with CE.


CE flowing through your body and using it to protect your soul are two completely different things.

One exists in their world with their entire existence, body and soul.

You opted not to respond to the last bit.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Mahito implies that he would be able to one-shot Todo if he wasn't nerfed by Nobara's and Yuji's soul-damaging attacks.

For all we know, he'd struggle to one-touch kill normal humans too.
Nanami got touched with noa transfiguration due to his subconscious soul protection, but Nobara and Todo would get mutilated by a single touched from weakened Mahito and I don't see evidence they mastered subconscious soul protection.

Mahito himself acknowledges that Sorcerers normally can't protect their soul.

 

[BOEGVELD]

You opted not to respond to the last bit.

What's that supposed to prove? We all exist with our mind, body and soul... But like ShadowWhoWalks pointed out: Mahito verbatim states Sorcerers can't protect their soul.

 

[Alexander]

I accept the infinity thing, but I seem to remember that Platon said that he did not believe that something was infinite in reality,because he things that everything is finite in reality,and the ideas/platonic forms are eternal and potentially infinite

 

[Duedate8898]

They continue to exist in the sense that negative emotions about volcanoes/forests/water/humanity will exist and overflow to create Cursed Spirits from the same themes. But would they really 'the same character' if anything but their theme can be different? I don't think there is anything preventing multiple high-grade Cursed Spirits from the same theme from existing at the same time either (assuming the older one survives for a long time). Them being 'reborn' is too metaphorical to apply imo.

We actually are given an example of a cursed spirit being reborn in series. Kurourushi, the cursed spirit of cockroaches had a child who took their place as Kurourushi after death with the same abilities.

Mahito implies that he would be able to one-shot Todo if he wasn't nerfed by Nobara's and Yuji's soul-damaging attacks.

For all we know, he'd struggle to one-touch kill normal humans too.
Nanami got touched with noa transfiguration due to his subconscious soul protection, but Nobara and Todo would get mutilated by a single touched from weakened Mahito and I don't see evidence they mastered subconscious soul protection.

Mahito himself acknowledges that Sorcerers normally can't protect their soul.

We know Mahito doesn't struggle to do this with normal humans or even sorcerer's cause of Junpei, it was only one touch there. Same with the likes of Nobara. It only took one touch for him to get either of them. However, with Todo and Nanami, Mahito touched them only once while they were protected with cursed energy and couldn't manipulate their souls from there. With Nanami being automatic, I believe it fair to assume that Grade 1 sorcerers can protect their souls from the abilities of Mahito. Especially since the only Grade 1's which Mahito ever fought with, were Nanami and Todo. All others have been below.

 

[AdNiBN002]

Mahito implies that he would be able to one-shot Todo if he wasn't nerfed by Nobara's and Yuji's soul-damaging attacks.

Disagree, it seems more indicative of Mahito referring to Todo's soul, as every time he's questioned his capability of one-shotting somebody, he's eluded to Nanami subconsciously proctecting it in their original matchup.

For all we know, he'd struggle to one-touch kill normal humans too.

He's shown to be capable of using transfiguration on his stock-pile of humans even at the verge of death. He also tried to do the same thing to Kenjaku despite being extremely injured.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

They continue to exist in the sense that negative emotions about volcanoes/forests/water/humanity will exist and overflow to create Cursed Spirits from the same themes. But would they really 'the same character' if anything but their theme can be different? I don't think there is anything preventing multiple high-grade Cursed Spirits from the same theme from existing at the same time either (assuming the older one survives for a long time). Them being 'reborn' is too metaphorical to apply imo.

Yes, hence why Jogo is fond of the sentiment that they will one day meet again. It also has to do with his quote about being unafraid of death unlike humans who also exist beyond the physical, heavily pointing to death being more of a transformation as opposed to a finite end. Which we've also seen from latest chapter developments.

What is the evidence that Hollow Purple erases the opponent from reality, instead of just slamming them at high speed?

The description of the technique and the fact that no visible damage is ever shown. We simply see things dissipate along the path of momentum, but not actual secondary environmental damage that would be associated with a physical event (we see shockwaves from the displacement of existence but no rubble,no on-screen damage, etc), and from Gojo's perspective (in the manga) things simply "dissipate" in front of him.

I also don't see how moving at high speed would accomplish what we see or line up with what we're told of the ability. Gojo already has Red to fulfill that function which would make Purple redundant.

Just a note that we should emphasize that Gojo adds information at a ratio of half a year's worth of information within 0.2 seconds, so not to give a false impression that an infinite amount of information is added instantly.

Half a year per person. In a one-on-one fight it would indeed be sent into one person alone. So really hard to measure. It also worked on an abstract being without an actual physical brain to overload, so not really much we can say passed the description.

This is from interaction with an incomplete Domain Expansion created by a Finger Bearer, and not a general ability of Cursed Spirits. Plus the character opening the portals are Death Paintings, thus they have a physical body and are much stronger than regular Cursed Spirits.

I disagree. Why would the death paintings be able to simply waltz in and out via some random function of an incomplete domain? It still has boundaries despite allowing clear entry and exit, and both times she is well into the domain. Both times we saw finger bearer, we saw that cursed spirits could move through the material via portal while also dragging a human along, while the shamans were unable to do so. The fact finger bearers could use these portals also suggests it isn't the same intangibility utilized by weak curse spirits.

Agree with the rest.

Thank you for your input.

Is there any evidence suggesting other users are also subconsciously covering their soul in magical power after recognizing their own soul?

It's on the screen. Nanami's unconscious reaction is a function of his experience and general cursed ability which inherently involves being aware of the soul. Nanami was clearly being shown as a sorcerer on the level capable of such a thing. Therefore people on his level and above (for which we can presume >= skill in cursed manipulation) would scale accordingly.

And recognizing the soul isn't as difficult as you would think per Mahito himself finding a Buddhist monk. He discusses the criteria he believed the old man to be capable of fulfilling hence his ability to see curses.

Disagree, it should be this instead

I'm not sure. What Gojo is doing is bringing non-existent imaginary numbers into existence which upon contact with reality, cancel each other out. Similar to how imaginary numbers can be used to make non-sensical math problems make sense such as the square root of a negative number. This is also hit pretty largely on the nose in the Gojo flashback in which he explains the capability of his limitless to make the impossible possible such as negative natural numbers. So void formula and the use of imaginary numbers explained in the interview likely refer to this cancelation or "void" (hence the term "void formula").

So I'm cool with existence erasure or Void Manip application of conversion into nothingness. I guess both would make sense unless there is some difference I am missing.

Agree, but I think it should be limited as multiple tries would eventually do him in and Soul Manip resistance should go with this too

Yeah it's just resistance not immunity or anything like that.

First case was as a result of the finger bearers domain, doesn't really justify giving it to curses in general, the 2nd case on the other hand I'm not sure

I posted an argument regarding this above, feel free to check it out.

Neutral leaning on agree

because it's not an ability that's common among higher grade curses to use either

Agree

Thank you for your input.

 

[Alexander]

i see only fighting

 

[BOEGVELD]

Nanami was clearly being shown as a sorcerer on the level capable of such a thing. Therefore people on his level and above (for which we can presume >= skill in cursed manipulation) would scale accordingly.

That's baseless though. Nothing suggests that Sorcerers on his level are capable of doing the same.

 

[Duedate8898]

Todo does. He was also able to touch Mahito's hand without being transformed and even suffered a similar effect to Nanami, with his hand slightly burnt from the contact.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

That's baseless though. Nothing suggests that Sorcerers on his level are capable of doing the same.

It's not. Just because it's "unconscious" doesn't mean it isn't based on his skill and experience. It's called intuition, implicit knowledge, instinct, etc. Both times Mahito has pondered about using it on skill cursed manipulation users, the issue of not one-shotting has come up. Todo himself being an extremely knowledgeable character regarding CE.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

We actually are given an example of a cursed spirit being reborn in series. Kurourushi, the cursed spirit of cockroaches had a child who took their place as Kurourushi after death with the same abilities.

And how many characters are able to do parthenogenesis to transfer Cursed Energy into a new vessel after exorcism? This does not resemble how themed Cursed Spirits normally get 'reborn'.

We know Mahito doesn't struggle to do this with normal humans or even sorcerer's cause of Junpei, it was only one touch there. Same with the likes of Nobara. It only took one touch for him to get either of them. However, with Todo and Nanami, Mahito touched them only once while they were protected with cursed energy and couldn't manipulate their souls from there. With Nanami being automatic, I believe it fair to assume that Grade 1 sorcerers can protect their souls from the abilities of Mahito. Especially since the only Grade 1's which Mahito ever fought with, were Nanami and Todo. All others have been below.

We are talking about soul-damaged Mahito after Nobara's and Yuti's attacks, not his normal condition.
The only time we see Mahito struggling is when his ability is nerfed; first from his soul damaged, and then from the after-effect of using Domain Expansion. Nothing indicates a generalized rule that powerful characters are resistant to Mahito's ability.

---

Disagree, it seems more indicative of Mahito referring to Todo's soul, as every time he's questioned his capability of one-shotting somebody, he's eluded to Nanami subconsciously proctecting it in their original matchup.

This is incorrect. He questioned his capability twice.

1: He confirmed that Nobara doesn't know how to protect her soul like Nanami:

He was nerfed so this only ended up disfiguring her and ambigiously kill her, instead of completly transfiguring her as is normal (which he first expected to happen to Nanami).

2: He was unsure his soul damage from Nobara and Yuji would allow him to kill Todo with a glancing touch:

He's shown to be capable of using transfiguration on his stock-pile of humans even at the verge of death. He also tried to do the same thing to Kenjaku despite being extremely injured.

His stock which he prepped and he is holding for an extended period of time. We are talking about his capability to kill with a brief glancing touch (especially somewhere non-vital).
Sure, if he was lucky or fast enough to hold someone he'll be able to kill through transfiguration even when nerfed.

---

Yes, hence why Jogo is fond of the sentiment that they will one day meet again. It also has to do with his quote about being unafraid of death unlike humans who also exist beyond the physical, heavily pointing to death being more of a transformation as opposed to a finite end. Which we've also seen from latest chapter developments.

Naruto and Sasuke are reincarnations of Asura and Indra. Characters in Bleach reincarnate when they die. Kagome from Inuyasha is the reincarnation of Kikyo. Aang and Korra from Avatar are the reincarnation of all previous Avatars. Many Yu-Gi-Oh characters are reincarnations of characters in the past.
But they don't get Incorporeality for vague reincarnation occurrences/cycles that produces different characters.

The description of the technique and the fact that no visible damage is ever shown. We simply see things dissipate along the path of momentum, but not actual secondary environmental damage that would be associated with a physical event (we see shockwaves from the displacement of existence but no rubble,no on-screen damage, etc), and from Gojo's perspective (in the manga) things simply "dissipate" in front of him.

I also don't see how moving at high speed would accomplish what we see or line up with what we're told of the ability. Gojo already has Red to fulfill that function which would make Purple redundant.

Where is the primary source for this description though? From what I've seen canon doesn't mention erasure.
Our first view of the ability had trees splintered and thrown off, displaying kinetic energy instead of durability-ignoring existence erasure:

Hanami's wounds from Hollow Purple also weren't clean (his ribcage was able to sustain damage instead of getting erased for example), which goes against the idea of durability-ignoring existence erasure:

If creating imaginary mass has significantly more firepower and speed than Red, then it would definitely be useful.

Half a year per person. In a one-on-one fight it would indeed be sent into one person alone. So really hard to measure. It also worked on an abstract being without an actual physical brain to overload, so not really much we can say passed the description.

Gojo believed that a non-Sorcerer can recover from 0.2 seconds within his Domain Expansion. This is a general statement; there are no calculation about more people = less flow of information per person.

I disagree. Why would the death paintings be able to simply waltz in and out via some random function of an incomplete domain? It still has boundaries despite allowing clear entry and exit, and both times she is well into the domain. Both times we saw finger bearer, we saw that cursed spirits could move through the material via portal while also dragging a human along, while the shamans were unable to do so. The fact finger bearers could use these portals also suggests it isn't the same intangibility utilized by weak curse spirits.

They were coordinating with the Finger Bearer and spent time kidnapping people using this incomplete Domain Expansion. What is more far fetched is them opening portals in a random street to waltz into buildings, which lacks evidence for them; it makes no sense to generalize this undemonstrated ability to Cursed Spirits.

The key question is: Do we see these portals outside of incomplete Domain Expansions?

---

Todo does. He was also able to touch Mahito's hand without being transformed and even suffered a similar effect to Nanami, with his hand slightly burnt from the contact.

It is established that Mahito's ability weakens when he recieves more soul damage. Instead of attributing this to Todo's soul-defense (and then generalizing this to all Grade 1 and higher Sorcerers), we can attribute this to Mahito being nerfed + Mahito being caught by surprise by Todo intentionally touching him to clap.
Todo himself says that it is a miracle he wasn't transfigured much further, when Nanami withstand a touch w/o any visible transfiguration and can withstand 2-3 more.

 

[Duedate8898]

And how many characters are able to do parthenogenesis to transfer Cursed Energy into a new vessel after exorcism? This does not resemble how themed Cursed Spirits normally get 'reborn'.

We have no other instances of this occuring in the series, so I think my argument has more basis than yours in this instance. With nothing else in the series to go off of to disprove or contradict this, it seems that we've been very clearly shown that the rebirth of cursed spirits can manifest in this way.

We are talking about soul-damaged Mahito after Nobara's and Yuti's attacks, not his normal condition.
The only time we see Mahito struggling is when his ability is nerfed; first from his soul damaged, and then from the after-effect of using Domain Expansion. Nothing indicates a generalized rule that powerful characters are resistant to Mahito's ability.

---

This is incorrect. He questioned his capability twice.

1: He confirmed that Nobara doesn't know how to protect her soul like Nanami:

He was nerfed so this only ended up disfiguring her and ambigiously kill her, instead of completly transfiguring her as is normal (which he first expected to happen to Nanami).

2: He was unsure his soul damage from Nobara and Yuji would allow him to kill Todo with a glancing touch:

---

It is established that Mahito's ability weakens when he recieves more soul damage. Instead of attributing this to Todo's soul-defense (and then generalizing this to all Grade 1 and higher Sorcerers), we can attribute this to Mahito being nerfed + Mahito being caught by surprise by Todo intentionally touching him to clap.
Todo himself says that it is a miracle he wasn't transfigured much further, when Nanami withstand a touch w/o any visible transfiguration and can withstand 2-3 more.

So for one, Todo isn't at full health when Mahito touches him for the second time. He's taken hits from some Isomer Souls, lost a hand thanks to Mahito's Domain Expansion, and most importantly, just took a Black Flash which took a substantial amount of CE to protect against. All of this together, plus Mahito being on the bridge admitting of truly realizing his soul and mentioning right after he just improved his Idle Transfiguration I feel fair to put these two on even ground if not Mahito on a higher one, especially since Todo is essentially out of the fight after Mahito's Black Flash. At that point, I don't feel it fair to say Todo's soul-defense is only because of Mahito's low health but also because of his own ability. And even being surprised, Mahito was still able to afflict Todo with the same burns that Nanami were also given in his initial fight.

And my final thing is that Nanami isn't really considered especially unique in the Jujutsu World. He's a solid Grade 1 sorcerer, but besides that he's got nothing special going on. So to assume that Nanami is the only sorcery capable of resisting Mahito's Cursed Technique through protecting the soul as he did is odd.

That's why I feel okay with extrapolating what happened with Nanami and Todo to other Grade 1 sorcerer's and above

 

[BOEGVELD]

Todo does. He was also able to touch Mahito's hand without being transformed and even suffered a similar effect to Nanami, with his hand slightly burnt from the contact.

Which was due to Mahito being in a weakened state. He explained this himself.

Just because it's "unconscious" doesn't mean it isn't based on his skill and experience. It's called intuition, implicit knowledge, instinct, etc. Both times Mahito has pondered about using it on skill cursed manipulation users, the issue of not one-shotting has come up. Todo himself being an extremely knowledgeable character regarding CE.

This is, again, baseless. You can't prove it's somehow also based on skill.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Naruto and Sasuke are reincarnations of Asura and Indra. Characters in Bleach reincarnate when they die. Kagome from Inuyasha is the reincarnation of Kikyo. Aang and Korra from Avatar are the reincarnation of all previous Avatars. Many Yu-Gi-Oh characters are reincarnations of characters in the past.
But they don't get Incorporeality for vague reincarnation occurrences/cycles that produces different characters.

None of those reincarnations are facilitated by an abstract shared among consciousness. Their essence is tied to human conceptualization of what they represent. Aka they have no true physical form.

Where is the primary source for this description though? From what I've seen canon doesn't mention erasure.
The first use of the ability had trees splintered and launched off, displaying kinetic energy instead of durability-ignoring existence erasure:

The Void stuff? That comes from the JjK interview discussing the physics of Gojo's CT.

The trees are the bits not being destroyed on the outskirts of the area of the attack.

Only the kinetic energy exists; nothing else to indicate destruction of the environment not related to the shockwave or purple traveling. Anything coming into contact with purple itself however was erased. Todo even states that there was no way to tell if the curse was exorcised or not, another indicator of erasure.

Hanami's wounds from Hollow Purple also weren't clean (his ribcage was able to sustain damage instead of getting erased for example), which goes against the idea of durability-ignoring existence erasure:

This is ignoring that Hanami was able to escape by melding into the ground and we never get to see how much was left in the AOE.

If creating imaginary mass has significantly more firepower and speed than Red, then it would definitely be useful.

That'd be ignoring the clear descriptions of it being "void formula" "imaginary", and the fact that it's red and blue together so them functioning the same doesn't make sense.

Gojo believed that a non-Sorcerer can recover from 0.2 seconds within his Domain Expansion. This is a general statement; there are no calculation about more people = less flow of information per person.

Fair.

The key question is: Do we see these portals outside of incomplete Domain Expansions?

---

One of the first time we see generic curses

 

[Duedate8898]

Which was due to Mahito being in a weakened state. He explained this himself.

I would ask you then look at my explanation cause I directly responded to this very point. That's what nearly all of my last post is in fact.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

This is, again, baseless. You can't prove it's somehow also based on skill.

It's not baseless. It literally happened once, and then happened again in the story. To claim that is baseless is confounding. Nanami has no special soul powers. He has a grasp of CE and intuitively protected against his technique. Mahito's basis for judging Nanami prior to fighting him was what? Literally nothing special. Nanami was real-world experience and Mahito found out his technique wasn't as surefire as he thought.

Extrapolating Nanami's feats to people on his grade and who have better-demonstrated knowledge of CE is not some leap in logic.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

This is also ignoring the constant allegories to the body and soul being imaginary boundaries, in which they are the same, proven when Toji’s body overpowers the soul.

The constant conversation between body and soul is not coincidental on Gege’s part, it is intentional.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Nanami has no special soul powers. He has a grasp of CE and intuitively protected against his technique.

Please look into the meaning of ''subconsciously''.

I would ask you then look at my explanation cause I directly responded to this very point. That's what nearly all of my last post is in fact.

I'm fine with giving Todo limited resistance (because the fact that Mahito couldn't utitilize his abilities to the max in his state remains), but Nanami's feat was done subconsciously and not skill related. Scaling it to others makes little sense in this context. Especially since Sorcerers of similar skill possessing the same abilities was never established within the series to begin with.

 

[AdNiBN002]

I'm fine with giving Todo limited resistance (because the fact that Mahito couldn't utitilize his abilities to the max in his state remains), but Nanami's feat was done subconsciously and not skill related. Scaling it to others makes little sense in this context. Especially since Sorcerers of similar skill possessing the same abilities was never established within the series to begin with.

Nanami's resistance was also a byproduct of his acknowledgement of the soul, which is a core theme throughout the franchise and brought up in various contexts, the more notable detail is that Soul Resistance (and knowledge regarding the soul) has never been portrayed to be something exclusive to Nanami.
Combining that with how Todo, who would be comparable to Nanami in skill, knowledge and power also performed a similar feat does seem to portray the idea that Sorcerers at this level should be capable of doing similarly.

It also stops a extremely bizarre precedence of being set, where Nanami would be the only Sorcerer with resistance to Soul Manipulation despite him not having any notable advantage in skill, power, knowledge, innate ability, etc.
And would make it something exclusive for him alone for no discernible reason.