Red Dead Redemption: Eagle-Eye & Dead-Eye.

[LordGinSama]

Major thanks to @Zenkaibattery1 for supplying me with the Guidebook.

Introduction

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So currently Dead-Eye is accepted as perception manipulation rather than time slow, which is faulty for a multitude of reasons.


1: It is quite literally never stated in any of the official material to be a result of the user's perception of time changing nor is it implied anywhere. The visuals further debunk this claim, as we can see people and items moving slower while Arthur himself gets faster.


2: In the official Rdr2 Databook it's stated multiple times that Dead-Eye is slowing down time itself, while making no mention of his perception being slowed instead. This is furthered by Dead-Eye being explained as slowing down time in the game.

Additions.

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For Eagle-Eye Arthur and John should get the following.


Extrasensory Perception (Using Eagle-Eye Arthur and John are capable of viewing light of luminous trails to track enemies, decipher clues, find the tiniest of details and view the scent of others.)

This would also cover Enhanced Senses in the form of limited X-Ray vision being able to see organs in the body. (47 secs into the video.) Furthermore Arthur's senses allow him to feel if something wrong is about to happen before it happens. (1:06.)

Dead-Eye gets it's perception manipulation switched out with time manipulation in the form of slowing down time. Dead-Eye would also grant Damage Reduction as whilst in Dead-Eye the user takes less damage.



Edit: Arthur and John would also qualify for Superhuman precision via the following.

Votes
Those that agreed: 10 (@UchihaSlayer96 @Milly_Rocking_Bandit @Zenkaibattery1 @KLOL506 @Keeweed @Harith0cell @LephyrTheRevanchist @Starter_Pack @Mr._Bambu @LordGinSama @DarkDragonMedeus (agrees with Eagle-Eye, Marksmanship and Neutral on time slow.)


Disagreeing: 1 (@Expectro2000xxx )

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Yeah, this all makes sense to me.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Agreed obviously, it should be noted Eagle Eye also slows down time, there's no statement but it's just shown visually everything becomes slower for about the same time as Dead Eye, maybe slightly longer, also it just brightens up the area around him to see in very dark places

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I agree.

Arthur Morgan and John Marston, manipulators of time but weak to tuberculosis and swimming.

 

[LordGinSama]

I agree.

Arthur Morgan and John Marston, manipulators of time but weak to tuberculosis and swimming.

Like real men fr.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

RDR is in need of some serious revisions, at least P&A wise, hope this is the first step.

 

[LordGinSama]

RDR is in need of some serious revisions, at least P&A wise, hope this is the first step.

Certainly is. I plan on having calculations made for his durability feats and the Legendary Animals should get pretty high into 9-B. None of his feats have calculations to them unfortunately.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

RDR is in need of some serious revisions, at least P&A wise, hope this is the first step.

Ye, I'll be helping with AP/Dura off site. There's some speed stuff too with him just dodging bullets from people riding horses at full speed from a significant and even close distances. The two most important abilities being done first ofc

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I agree.

Arthur Morgan and John Marston, manipulators of time but weak to tuberculosis and swimming.

Look, at least Arthur has an excuse with there being no TB cure at the time John on the other hand...

 

[LordGinSama]

John cam survive burning and freezing temperatures but can't swim lmfao

 

[Keeweed]

John cam survive burning and freezing temperatures but can't swim lmfao

Nether of those have to do with swimming though. Nothing here has to do with swimming, he was just never taught and needs air to breathe like 90% of the characters on this site. As unlikely as it is to happen, Goku, and similar characters, can still drown.

Though I agree with the time slow, it not like perception manipulation would be any less explain for a normal guy to just do somehow anyways.

 

[LordGinSama]

Nether of those have to do with swimming though. Nothing here has to do with swimming, he was just never taught and needs air to breathe like 90% of the characters on this site. Like, as unlikely as it is, Goku can still drown last I checked.

Man just let us roast John. Arthur would approve of this-

 

[Keeweed]

Fair enough (though I kinda am more fond of John and Red Dead Redemption 1, which I feel a bit bad about because one of my cousins worked on the second game).

 

[KLOL506]

Looks good.

 

[KLOL506]

@Planck69 @Theglassman12

 

[KLOL506]

This also means the "Transonic to Supersonic" stuff gets whacked from their speed value.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

This also means the "Transonic to Supersonic" stuff gets whacked from their speed value.

How so? That's based on them normally just reacting to revolver rounds even without Dead Eye? They can dodge bullets while racing on horses. Like, Arthur moves his head right as the bullet is about to hit him

Also the Eagle Eye stuff scales to Charles Smith

 

[KLOL506]

How so? That's based on them normally just reacting to revolver rounds even without Dead Eye? They can dodge bullets while racing on horses. Like, Arthur moves his head right as the bullet is about to hit him

Sorry, I meant the "higher with Eagle Eye" portion. My bad.

Also the Eagle Eye stuff scales to Charles Smith

Nice.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I was thinking something like this can be the new justifications btw, feel free to edit

Enhanced Senses (Arthur's senses have allowed him to know if something bad is about to happen before it happens)

Damage Reduction, Greater Enhanced Senses, Superhuman Precision and Time Manipulation via Dead Eye (Dead Eye is repeatedly stated to be capable of slowing down time both in-game and in guidebooks, The ability also allows Arthur/John/Jack to lock onto general areas as well as vital spots of the target as a sort of x-ray vision, be it humans or animals, and also while Dead-Eye is activated, Arthur/John/Jack take less damage.)

Extrasensory Perception, Time Manipulation and Greater Enhanced Senses (unconventional limited light manipulation as well?) with Eagle Eye (Using Eagle-Eye Arthur/John/Jack/Charles are capable of viewing light of luminous trails to track enemies, decipher clues, find the tiniest of details, pick out even the tiniest of objects, and view the scent of others all in slow motion. Eagle Eye also lights up the surrounding area, allowing Arthur/John/Jack/Charles to see in places they normally wouldn't be able too.)

@KLOL if we could provide the feats do you think you could calc some stuff for the verse?

 

[KLOL506]

I suppose I could.

Don't forget about John effectively mastering Dead Eye under Landon Ricketts and thus he'd surpass all those before him.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Tbh, is it really an advanced version looking back? He just teaches the locking on part and then I dont recall anything beyond that and tells him he just "needs to keep his back straight", I dont see where it's a better version when Arthur and Jack normally just do the same thing. Not taking anything away from the guy, he has arguably better statements about being a legend, but even Arthur is considered dangerous and the black water officers have "DO NOT APPROACH" on his bounty because of how dangerous he is.

 

[Dalesean027]

How so? That's based on them normally just reacting to revolver rounds even without Dead Eye? They can dodge bullets while racing on horses. Like, Arthur moves his head right as the bullet is about to hit him

Got clips of this because most of said justifications I've seen are flatout false.

"Should easily be faster than Benjamin Lazarus, a magician who can catch real bullets with his teeth"

For one Arthur quite literally has no reason to scale to benjamin lazarus and is in shock by his ability to catch a bullet in his mouth, moreso also on this is the fact that this is still something that requires prep from Lazarus to do as if he's shot anywhere else he can't even react and actually takes a shot with the stage having to be closed. Outside of that we quite literally have nothing scaling them to each other which isn't even anything itself





John Marston is touted with apparently outpacing revolver rounds and I can say the clip speaks for itself


I myself was working on some deadeye calcs and tbh he only slows down anything to like subsonic speeds as the bullets are still waaay faster than him.


Also Arthur needs average or athletic human travel speed specified because he doesn't travel at these high speeds.

 

[KLOL506]

@Aetheric Pariah Thoughts?

 

[Dalesean027]

Also gonna @Expectro2000xxx I believe they were wanting to do work on red dead to fix some ratings

 

[KLOL506]

I myself was working on some deadeye calcs and tbh he only slows down anything to like subsonic speeds as the bullets are still waaay faster than him.

Doubt that's gonna matter since if this gets accepted Dead Eye will be Time Slow.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

The American venom clip where Dutch shoots John is for starters not canonically what's supposed to happen and so doesn't exist in canon, but they were in the middle of an intense showdown where John was not in the right state of mind and completely bewildered that Dutch was there and did not know what to do. It absolutely does not take away from feats of Arthur and John dodging and moving their head away from gunshots while riding horses or in normal combat, but sure, it would need to be noted as reaction/combat speed

 

[Dalesean027]

Doubt that's gonna matter since if this gets accepted Dead Eye will be Time Slow.

Hm coulda sworn some people still had ratings for that kinda thing but it any case they'd have to majorly downgrade in speed then

It absolutely does not take away from feats of Arthur and John dodging and moving their head away from gunshots while riding horses or in normal combat, but sure, it would need to be noted as reaction/combat speed

Sir these would need calcs and dodging gunfire from long range will yield subsonic regardless so the speed value is going to have to change since there's no real feats of anyone remotely outpacing gunfire

 

[Dalesean027]

Edit: Arthur and John would also qualify for Superhuman precision via Dead-Eye's ability to auto lock onto targets.

Also I do enough gaming to know this is just regular aim assist present in like every game ever on console especially since any console game that involes shooting 99% of the time has aim assist already activated. This isn't even a dead eye ability they're just telling you aim assist is on bro wth.

"By default Red Dead Redemption 2 offers medium level of aim assistance"...

By default because that's just literally a normal video game setting, it literally has nothing to do with deadeye.

@UchihaSlayer96 and @KLOL506 I implore the both of you to please take a closer look at this kinda thing

 

[chosen]

Agree With time slow dissagree With superhuman precision via dale .reasons

Got clips of this because most of said justifications I've seen are flatout false.

"Should easily be faster than Benjamin Lazarus, a magician who can catch real bullets with his teeth"

For one Arthur quite literally has no reason to scale to benjamin lazarus and is in shock by his ability to catch a bullet in his mouth, moreso also on this is the fact that this is still something that requires prep from Lazarus to do as if he's shot anywhere else he can't even react and actually takes a shot with the stage having to be closed. Outside of that we quite literally have nothing scaling them to each other which isn't even anything itself





John Marston is touted with apparently outpacing revolver rounds and I can say the clip speaks for itself


I myself was working on some deadeye calcs and tbh he only slows down anything to like subsonic speeds as the bullets are still waaay faster than him.


Also Arthur needs average or athletic human travel speed specified because he doesn't travel at these high speeds.

Is Possible for benjamin feat ve calced at least? I would check in my replay if the mcs do indeed scale

 

[Dalesean027]

Is Possible for benjamin feat ve calced at least? I would check in my replay if the mcs do indeed scale

Lazarus is a minor character you don't even interact with outside of his shows , there's quite literally no way to say Arthur can just randomly scale for any reason.

Otherwise it'd still also be a low subsonic feat for lazarus and sure you could calc it but it'd still have to be noted its still with prep and he isn't even normally that fast and can't react to being shot anywhere else as shown above.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also I do enough gaming to know this is just regular aim assist present in like every game ever on console especially since any console game that involes shooting 99% of the time has aim assist already activated. This isn't even a dead eye ability they're just telling you aim assist is on bro wth.

First thing's first do you have actual evidence to support your claim of this being a game mechanism outside of your own hunch? John is literally taught how to lock onto people with Dead-Eye in the game so obviously ain't just "lol game mechanics."

Anyway even without this Arthur still has plenty of feats for Superhuman accuracy such as killing airborne birds with bullets, knives or Tomahawk's, casually taking snipers off the census, scoring multiple rapid headshots, shoot tnt mid-air, etc. Being able to target precise vitals whilst in Dead-Eye.

"By default Red Dead Redemption 2 offers medium level of aim assistance"...

By default because that's just literally a normal video game setting, it literally has nothing to do with deadeye.

Read above.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also stop discussing speed, this isn't a CRT for stats so just hold your arguments on that subject for now.

 

[Dalesean027]

First thing's first do you have actual evidence to support your claim of this being a game mechanism outside of your own hunch? Anyway even without this Arthur still has plenty of feats for Superhuman accuracy such as killing airborne birds with bullets, knives or Tomahawk's, casually taking snipers off the census, scoring multiple rapid headshots, shoot tnt mid-air, etc. Being able to target precise vitals whilst in Dead-Eye.

Read above.

Buddy you're not proving anything here with these and its literally not a hunch this is literally just talking about the controls and game settings, do I really need to reach you what aim assist means and how it functions in games.

Like actually be real here my guy and also those in game challenges don't really prove anything as your aim assist settings don't affect them at all, aim assist exist in the first place for as an accessibility feature on console to make it easier for people who aren't the best shots or could be playing the game with certain disabilities or handicaps. The fact you're even trying to spin that rn is genuinely wild to me right now.

If you went to the same pc control section there would be no mention of aim assist because pc doesn't use it unless you plug in a console controller.

If you genuinely don't know what aim asisst is or believe its console only then here granted while these aren't specifcally about Red Dead its true for literally like any game on console that involves aiming bro.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/esports/2020/10/16/aim-assist-debate/

Actually did find a specifc red dead one on pc lol

RDR2 PC Keyboard Aim Assist issues : r/reddeadredemption - Reddit

Even as the comments show aim asisst is console only to help with aiming. If you've done any gaming in your life for even a couple of years you'd know this fact

https://www.thegamer.com/red-dead-online-guide-improving-accuracy-without-auto-aim/#:~:text=Turning%20off%20auto%20aim%20is,to%20them%20and%20lock%20on.

Console specifc articles about it too bro

 

[KLOL506]

Do the above arguments even affect the fact that Arthur can still hit and kill distant targets with tomahawks and throwing knives of all things with pinprick precision, something considered impossible IRL, which is what you need to get Superhuman Precision?

 

[Dalesean027]

@Starter_Pack

 

[Dalesean027]

Do the above arguments even affect the fact that Arthur can still hit and kill distant targets with tomahawks and throwing knives of all things with pinprick precision, something considered impossible IRL, which is what you need to get Superhuman Precision?

Use a different justification sure but aim assist is literally a console exclusive gameplay mechanic to help players aim, KLOL you've yourself done enough gaming you should know this too. Using aim assist justify giving abilites is about one of the most disingenuous things you can do

 

[LordGinSama]

Buddy you're not proving anything here with these and its literally not a hunch this is literally just talking about the controls and game settings, do I really need to reach you what aim assist means and how it functions in games.

First of all, I'd really appreciate it if you were to stop referring to me as "buddy" or "my guy.". Obviously we aren't on great terms so this is a clear jab. Secondly I've already proven Superhuman Precision via other feats. Last but not least I'm fully aware of what aim function means, I'm not an idiot that's never played a game so again I'd appreciate the entire "know it all" attitude of your's. Also if you were anywhere as knowledgeable on the game as your claiming then you'd know you can literally turn off auto aim to use free aim.

Like actually be real here my guy and also those in game challenges don't really prove anything as your aim assist settings don't affect them at all.

What? Lmfao according to you shooting multiple airborne birds while on a train, shooting sticks of Tnt Mid-air, erasing Snipers, targeting vitals and such isn't Superhuman? Actually get real for once instead of downplaying.

aim assist exist in the first place for as an accessibility feature on console to make it easier for people who aren't the best shots or could be playing the game with certain disabilities or handicaps.

You do realize you can turn off Auto-Aim which isnt even a thing in the lore correct? It's a game mechanism as you said, not apart of the lore therefore these feats are valid.

The fact you're even trying to spin that rn is genuinely wild to me right now.

The fact that your downplaying his feats to be auto aim is more so wild to the majority of users here.

If you went to the same pc control section there would be no mention of aim assist because pc doesn't use it unless you plug in a console controller.

This is irrelevant. Honestly your really just hyperfocusing on a singular point while also simultaneously downplaying feats for the sake of downplay.

If you genuinely don't know what aim asisst is or believe its console only then here granted while these aren't specifcally about Red Dead its true for literally like any game on console that involves aiming bro.

We all know what aim assist is, but thank you for the information captain obvious. Also you done with the "bros" there or are you gonna start chugging monster energy and putting holes in drywall?

 

[LordGinSama]

Use a different justification sure but aim assist is literally a console exclusive gameplay mechanic to help players aim, KLOL you've yourself done enough gaming you should know this too. Using aim assist justify giving abilites is about one of the most disingenuous things you can do

Literally these are two different things. The challenges and the auto aim are two different arguments and I'm pretty sure you know this yourself.

 

[Dalesean027]

Not going to address allat cause it'd just be silly

What? Lmfao according to you shooting multiple airborne birds while on a train, shooting sticks of Tnt Mid-air, erasing Snipers, targeting vitals and such isn't Superhuman? Actually get real for once instead of downplaying.

But never once commented on what's in the marksmen challenges themselves, those are fine and it doesn't matter really whether you turn aim assist on or off to do them, you simply cannot use aim assist as a justification. otherwise that aside you're literally just waffling because I never once said the challenges didn't qualify for superhuman precision just that they ain't justification for you trying to use aim assist as the primary justification for said ability. So if you're going to represent me do it right, the challenges and what KLOL said are fine justifications but not justifications represented in the OP use what you have here but the aim assist section needs to go

 

[LordGinSama]

I quite literally never connected Auto-Aim to the other challenge feats. That was you that made that connection, not me.

Anyway even without this Arthur still has plenty of feats for Superhuman accuracy such as killing airborne birds with bullets, knives or Tomahawk's, casually taking snipers off the census, scoring multiple rapid headshots, shoot tnt mid-air, etc. Being able to target precise vitals whilst in Dead-Eye.

It's called basic reading comprehension. If you actually bothered reading my comment then you obviously would have seen that this is a separate argument from the auto aiming which you went fully into for no reason.