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READ THE OP. The Main Revisions: 2 (This is a Naruto thread)
- Thread starter M3X_2.0
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Then, I don't know M3, you could just not care about those votes because they aren't adding anything? Your whole appeal to motive feels too much like a spiteful thorn thrown at people because of past discussions and does the literal opposite of helping, just like those people just commenting then leaving.
Anyway, everyone stop needlessly derailing because this is already too long.
Anyway, everyone stop needlessly derailing because this is already too long.
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- Thread starter
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Oh, no dude. Let's just forget the votes. I will not count any kind of vote. Both sides's arguments are being questioned and that's make the vote count impossible. I follow a method of, if the thing that you are agreeing with is getting questioned, then your vote is useless.
Think with me, imagine if 100 peoples agreed with an wrong argument, why we should consider the votes, since we know that the argument is wrong? Let's reach a consensus first.
Think with me, imagine if 100 peoples agreed with an wrong argument, why we should consider the votes, since we know that the argument is wrong? Let's reach a consensus first.
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Then... again... you don't care about the votes and just focus on the arguments. Very simple.
And again, it's better to drop this because this is already too long.
And again, it's better to drop this because this is already too long.
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Ok so here is what I'm going to say that about BOTH SIDES HERE....well first of CALM DOWN. There isn't a need to go around giving attitude
If y'all really wanna be blunt here then we can do that cause I wanted to talk to Ant about this for a while now. Literally everytime there is something related to Naruto, the SAME people who always disagree with an upgrade for Naruto are the SAME people who agree to a Bleach upgrade so yes it's Bleach fans that do it (again I ain't mad or anything like that but it's the truth and y'all have to admit it). The same thing can be said to Naruto fans however that they would want an upgrade just cause they want it. I will also have to agree with the "I come here to agree or disagree" cause yeah it's quite annoying for both sides. When IMade makes a comment that is easily debunked, Bleach fans still take his side just cause they want to see a Naruto upgrade lose while when Naruto fans will not want a downgrade thread.
I wasn't even surprise that the moment this thread was born, I knew who was gonna be part of it (Naruto be Bleach fans). Yes I will also be honest but last LF honestly had me ticked off since it was obvious of what was going on there that even ANT HIMSELF felt it was even silly to even consider it but then Naruto fans looks like they ready to throw down. I'm a Naruto fan a lot more then Bleach but I been agreeing to Bleach upgrades like Gremmy Meteor and a few others cause I felt they were right (don't say that I also disagree). I'm here to say this now so we ALL understand....stop with the hostility just cause of the franchise we favor....and stop ignoring evidence that are in plan sight! It annoying as hell. I think for now we need only staff members to give their opinion and NO ONE ELSE
With ÔØñ´©Å, BlackeJan
If y'all really wanna be blunt here then we can do that cause I wanted to talk to Ant about this for a while now. Literally everytime there is something related to Naruto, the SAME people who always disagree with an upgrade for Naruto are the SAME people who agree to a Bleach upgrade so yes it's Bleach fans that do it (again I ain't mad or anything like that but it's the truth and y'all have to admit it). The same thing can be said to Naruto fans however that they would want an upgrade just cause they want it. I will also have to agree with the "I come here to agree or disagree" cause yeah it's quite annoying for both sides. When IMade makes a comment that is easily debunked, Bleach fans still take his side just cause they want to see a Naruto upgrade lose while when Naruto fans will not want a downgrade thread.
I wasn't even surprise that the moment this thread was born, I knew who was gonna be part of it (Naruto be Bleach fans). Yes I will also be honest but last LF honestly had me ticked off since it was obvious of what was going on there that even ANT HIMSELF felt it was even silly to even consider it but then Naruto fans looks like they ready to throw down. I'm a Naruto fan a lot more then Bleach but I been agreeing to Bleach upgrades like Gremmy Meteor and a few others cause I felt they were right (don't say that I also disagree). I'm here to say this now so we ALL understand....stop with the hostility just cause of the franchise we favor....and stop ignoring evidence that are in plan sight! It annoying as hell. I think for now we need only staff members to give their opinion and NO ONE ELSE
With ÔØñ´©Å, BlackeJan
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At this point, someone just gets Kishimoto's phone number and calls him
Too much complication for a single scan, it's impressive
Too much complication for a single scan, it's impressive
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As stated already, my arguments have yet to be debunked, Kep has pointed out how the beam dodge is unreliable, and IMade has furthered my own argument and put forth more as well.
The evidence is overwhelmingly against any sort of beam dodge when applying any sort of rationale to the evidence provided. It's a tad bit silly this has been drawn out so long and so many personal insults/ad hominem have been thrown out so flippantly, I'm especially suprirsed at the amount of flak OP is throwing out against anyone disagreeing. Some of the persons agreeing with me have been a bit questionable in their behavior as well and I'd kindly ask they tone that down, too.
With staff commenting on the unreliability of the OP, and several arguments counter to the OP standing not debunked or (like mine) just being ignored since they're too troublesome, I do believe there's nowhere else for this thread to go.
The evidence is overwhelmingly against any sort of beam dodge when applying any sort of rationale to the evidence provided. It's a tad bit silly this has been drawn out so long and so many personal insults/ad hominem have been thrown out so flippantly, I'm especially suprirsed at the amount of flak OP is throwing out against anyone disagreeing. Some of the persons agreeing with me have been a bit questionable in their behavior as well and I'd kindly ask they tone that down, too.
With staff commenting on the unreliability of the OP, and several arguments counter to the OP standing not debunked or (like mine) just being ignored since they're too troublesome, I do believe there's nowhere else for this thread to go.
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This thread should be closed until Tata is no longer busy with IRL stuff.
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It can't just be him having a say in this, that's actually not fair Ant-san. We should have JUST staff members also giving their opinion on this not just Kep. Personally I think that a new thread should be made with ONLY STAFF MEMBERS and and only 2 people from opposing side to give their say and leave it at that. Right now the way I see it, things r a messAntvasima said:
@Xulrev
What was yur argument again? if it's about not using the anime then I would have to disagree with u on that cause they r EXACTLY similar it's not even funny. U can use the anime for details on something that would be hard to tell if in then manga
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Things aren't really a mess though
The majority of people disagree with this and the few who agree are recycling the same points
The majority of people disagree with this and the few who agree are recycling the same points
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>Bleach vs Naruto fans
That sounds like projecting since I can count several users that have disagreed that have never been in a Bleach thread and I would know since I'm in every Bleach thread.
Also, Xulrev based his disagreement on the anime above and in his latest comment said he disagrees more based on my last comment that showed how the anime contradicted the manga.
You need to make a counter to that comment now or drop the stance otherwise you're solely arguing off assertion and not evidence.
That sounds like projecting since I can count several users that have disagreed that have never been in a Bleach thread and I would know since I'm in every Bleach thread.
Also, Xulrev based his disagreement on the anime above and in his latest comment said he disagrees more based on my last comment that showed how the anime contradicted the manga.
You need to make a counter to that comment now or drop the stance otherwise you're solely arguing off assertion and not evidence.
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As someone who is a fan of both Naruto and Bleach, I have to concur with Kep, IMade and Xulrev.
The majority of people disagree with this upgrade, and nothing new has been presented in a while.
The majority of people disagree with this upgrade, and nothing new has been presented in a while.
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@IMade
I can tell u didn't read my message and only decided to see things in your perspective. I'm taking about BOTH sides here that does the same things repeatedly. Naruto fans want upgrades just for upgrade while Bleach fans want downgrade just for downgrades. I also feel a negative tone from u so if I was to retort and be blunt here, Im a Naruto fan and I have agreed to Bleach calcs before I'll still will though I have NEVER seen u agree to any Naruto calcs, even the one that was considered to be a joke, u went ahead and agree with that person...
I did make a counter to that comment about the anime. Literally it's going by the manga and only thing that's missing is the headband strip BUT THATS IT. If ya don't like t then y'all it up to Viz Media cause everything it clearly identical it's not even funny. Again this needs staff members only
@Paul Frank
Thank u for the honesty
I can tell u didn't read my message and only decided to see things in your perspective. I'm taking about BOTH sides here that does the same things repeatedly. Naruto fans want upgrades just for upgrade while Bleach fans want downgrade just for downgrades. I also feel a negative tone from u so if I was to retort and be blunt here, Im a Naruto fan and I have agreed to Bleach calcs before I'll still will though I have NEVER seen u agree to any Naruto calcs, even the one that was considered to be a joke, u went ahead and agree with that person...
I did make a counter to that comment about the anime. Literally it's going by the manga and only thing that's missing is the headband strip BUT THATS IT. If ya don't like t then y'all it up to Viz Media cause everything it clearly identical it's not even funny. Again this needs staff members only
@Paul Frank
Thank u for the honesty
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@Ant
None of my points were debunked, as were Tata's.
None of Jvando's or John's arguments were as well. All we are seeing here is people considering an assumption that can not be proven on either side, either to the Aimdodge side or to the dodge side. They literally refute a perspective, using another perspective and take it as fact.
They take Madara by sending the beam into the void and giving Naruto time for reaction as a FACT (not one of the perspectives, a FACT), countering common sense and context, and even making more guesses than normal. Evidence from the manga does not prove dodge, let alone a clear headswing.
When we ask to explain, we basically have 3 main points (which agree with the headswing) and they are:
• In case, Kep says Naruto is not perpendicular to Madara, thus justifies a headswing.
• However, the same is seen in the anime and was adapted in the same way, and it ignores the time factor and the other perspective, as I said several times above and Tata also said.
• It is said that the bandana being cut shows a clear movement of Aimdodge.
• But they are unable to prove, WITHOUT IGNORING THE COMMON SENSE, why Madara would do this without first sending the beam on your face, considering all the feats of Naruto, in which he shows that the supposition is ridiculous, no matter how you look at it.
• They say that Anime is not canonical and contradicts manga.
• They are right, however, Anime is accepted as a complementary "canon." Therefore, the only argument for this is the lack of adaptation of a cut bandana, in which it is not relevant and can be argued by both sides ... That is, a small detail almost irrelevant (from the perspective of both sides).
And now, do we basically have an Appeal to Authority? Kep is the God and he can not be contradicted, no matter the argument used? The question of perspective?
None of my points were debunked, as were Tata's.
None of Jvando's or John's arguments were as well. All we are seeing here is people considering an assumption that can not be proven on either side, either to the Aimdodge side or to the dodge side. They literally refute a perspective, using another perspective and take it as fact.
They take Madara by sending the beam into the void and giving Naruto time for reaction as a FACT (not one of the perspectives, a FACT), countering common sense and context, and even making more guesses than normal. Evidence from the manga does not prove dodge, let alone a clear headswing.
When we ask to explain, we basically have 3 main points (which agree with the headswing) and they are:
• In case, Kep says Naruto is not perpendicular to Madara, thus justifies a headswing.
• However, the same is seen in the anime and was adapted in the same way, and it ignores the time factor and the other perspective, as I said several times above and Tata also said.
• It is said that the bandana being cut shows a clear movement of Aimdodge.
• But they are unable to prove, WITHOUT IGNORING THE COMMON SENSE, why Madara would do this without first sending the beam on your face, considering all the feats of Naruto, in which he shows that the supposition is ridiculous, no matter how you look at it.
• They say that Anime is not canonical and contradicts manga.
• They are right, however, Anime is accepted as a complementary "canon." Therefore, the only argument for this is the lack of adaptation of a cut bandana, in which it is not relevant and can be argued by both sides ... That is, a small detail almost irrelevant (from the perspective of both sides).
And now, do we basically have an Appeal to Authority? Kep is the God and he can not be contradicted, no matter the argument used? The question of perspective?
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Well, you can ask a few more of the staff members listed in the Naruto (The Universe) page and the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here if you wish.
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I vote to wait for Tata to speak properly. After this, if you do not reach a conclusion and continue the same thing, on simply ignoring the feat. Set a rule, explaining that you can not prove a determining fact.
No headswing, no dodge. Just inconclusive!
No headswing, no dodge. Just inconclusive!
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I don't know why people were so willing to try to pass a flawed interpretation of a feat and expect to rush it before anyone could say otherwise and mock people for disagreeing. This does not feel like an honest CRT with little bias involved.
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I mean we have several members disagreeing due to the OP's logic not convincing them, including some staff members and yet some people want to stall it just because they don't like the disagreements or being debunked.
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Well it's more along the line that someone make a new thread and nothin party (only 1 representative) comes and give their argument and after that just let the staff members say what they thinkAntvasima said:
@RegisNex
Again it can be said for for the opposite side. Yur starting to let yur bias show ya know?
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Why though
Most people already disagree with this and feel it should be closed
Most people already disagree with this and feel it should be closed
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Cause AGAIN this is nothing more then a "I agree just because" and "I disagree just because" deal. It's quite obvious especially with the last tread that even Ant himself said it was silly. It's not hard to just let staff members handle it and just let them comment, it's honestly not a big deal since both side aren't getting along
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MostPowerfull said:
This
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As I've highlighted here, the headband ends have a perfectly flat line and have a forced curve at the top going towards the left which is the same direction the Light Fang was swung towards. With the perfectly aligned similar colored bits directly above these flat ends, it's literally common sense that the headband was cut.IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:>Lastly, in this image you can clearly see a piece of Naruto's "headband" flaking off from the rest of it. Now, am I seriously suggesting that Naruto's headband just started falling off for no reason? No, it is quite evident that it's just Naruto's energy wafting off his form...something completely uncontradicted in the anime as seen when Madara cuts his "headband". That's false and is an explicit reason of the anime contradicting the manga. In the anime as you showed the thing that came off of Naruto was energy and not his headband while in the manga it is explicitly his headband.
Flat ends.
Curved towards the beam's swung direction.
Same color.
Aligned.
The anime contradicts the manga as the headbands aren't cut.
That comment you quoted Astral is based on using the Anime instead of the manga and justifies that the anime should be used even when they admit there is a difference in events between the two.
As I showed in one of my previous comments, there is an obvious difference and contradiction between the two and we are not allowed to use the anime if it contradicts the manga in any way.
There is a literal contradiction in this scene, we can't use the anime.
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An unadapted small detail is not a contradiction. We have almost 100% of the manga adapted correctly.
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@imade the only literally difference is a difference in perspective which for some reason everyone is wanting to ignore. When we have moments like these we should use the anime for case by case decisions since the manga is confusing to come to a conclusion on based on perspective.
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Anime LF didn't behave like light too.
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This thread should be closed until Tata comes back.
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Yeah we should wait on Tata in the mean time
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The possibility for Madara Uchiha and the rest of the Naruto franchise characters to move at light speed has already been discussed and debunked repeatedly. Currently, any repetition of said discussion is highly annoying and not subject to discussion.
No new information was presented in this thread besides the arguing of the same points so it should be closed based on the currently existing rules.
No new information was presented in this thread besides the arguing of the same points so it should be closed based on the currently existing rules.
- Status
