Question about dragon ball universe size

[Orange]

Yep, it uses the source Null used.

Nothing stops them from travelling at the same speed as their casual attacks. Unless someone wants to tell me that Saiyan Saga Piccolo can't move at Relativistic speeds or that Goku can't travel at MFTL+ speeds despite fighting against Beerus who can do just that and both having their Energy Ball feat scale to them because they already downscale from a serious Whis.
Technically the fighting speed should be higher since the energy used for speed won't be waisted on distance, but will be used on speed [or short burst] thus technically making it faster.
But it doesn't matter, being it at least equal to travel speed would put them at infinite speed/mtfl+ [if the infinite size thread even passes, which...I severely doubt it]

Heck, even when the whole 3/4 speed of Whis (Whis doing 487 quadrillion c) thing was going on, assuming Beerus was going half as fast as that, Goku would undeniably be above 182 quadrillion C, after which all other transformations would effectively surpass it by massive leaps and bounds).

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Shouldn't we focus on the cosmology instead of speed?

 

[KLOL506]

Shouldn't we focus on the cosmology instead of speed?

Yeah, we should. Well, the 3-D aspect of it anyway.

 

[Greenshifter]

Generally it wouldn’t make sense for their flight to be infinitely slower than their punches, kicks, and ki blasts for some reason.

There’s long distance flight speed and combat speed while flying. Those 2 can be treated differently.

 

[Orange]

Yeah, we should. Well, the 3-D aspect of it anyway.

Should we create a thread for ot to be accepted or no ?[I very much doubt it will tbh.]

 

[Greenshifter]

Should we create a thread for ot to be accepted or no ?[I very much doubt it will tbh.]

I think Mav is making a blog.

 

[Antvasima]

The raw translations from the daizenshuu are the correct ones. The traditional translations we usually see are rather dated (it’s the same translation that said the solar system is a galactic nebula).

The raws say that stars/galaxies are endlessly expanding but the entire space of the living universe as a whole is infinite.
Also, as a side note, Beerus’s planet is farther distance than the Kaioshin realm and afterlife, which are outside the universe.

Compiling all arguments:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fc01fee8-f42c-4b8f-a292-8b71a3e3bf65/scale-to-width/755

Universe is endless

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/feb24aba-19c2-4c35-b056-3a7b3bc2dee3/scale-to-width/755

universe is infinitely expansive. (Expansive means covering an area)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/669891148143394826/720185966123286538/universe.PNG

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/liberproeliis/images/5/5c/Daiz4-pag20.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/264?cb=20190713022613&path-prefix=pt-br

Translations:

"The Darkness that stretches out into infinity and illuminates galaxies"

The Universe: "An infinite space filled with light and darkness"

There are boundless Galaxies

Infinite galaxies.

@Elizhaa @Theglassman12 @DarkDragonMedeus @SamanPatou

What do you think about this?

 

[KLOL506]

@Elizhaa @Theglassman12 @DarkDragonMedeus @SamanPatou

What do you think about this?

I don't think Glassman is too particularly interested in evaluating Dragon Ball related threads these days.

 

[Orange]

The blog or the thread should likely also handle some counter arguments such as "The universe stated to have an edge/center".
Which tbh isn't a counter since infinity can have an edge, a beginning and even a center. But it's preferably if the blog/thread handle these "counter arguments."

 

[Bernkastelll]

laughs in Anos voldigoad/ Yogiri takatou/ Alovenus

This is like, a really REALLY bad comparison, like, REALLY.

 

[Orange]

The blog or the thread should likely also handle some counter arguments such as "The universe stated to have an edge/center".
Which tbh isn't a counter since infinity can have an edge, a beginning and even a center. But it's preferably if the blog/thread handle these "counter arguments."

Also I forgot to mention, are koyama's statements usable for non cano dbz or no? If yes, they should be added to the blog/thread.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

The blog or the thread should likely also handle some counter arguments such as "The universe stated to have an edge/center".
Which tbh isn't a counter since infinity can have an edge, a beginning and even a center. But it's preferably if the blog/thread handle these "counter arguments."

Source for infinity being able to have an end?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I don't really see why Bulma's statement is that relevant

It's one finite statement vs alotta infinite statements

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

I can accept an infinite super universe... grudgingly

 

[Confluctor]

I am with Ottavio. Bulma is smart and all, but her word shouldn't be taken at face value over many other statements.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

I'll put aside my bias for this

Bulma's statement isn't really enough, as even in the prior sources, it said infinite while also mentioning being enclosed in a sphere of sorts... it's weird and it's strange but...

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

really, in light of that, her statement doesn't fully contradict anything via Toriyama being weird

 

[Antvasima]

I personally do not really mind, but we need further staff input here.

@AKM sama

What do you think about this?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/question-about-dragon-ball-universe-size.133453/post-4594936

 

[Confluctor]

I think as long as the verse treats it as infinite, we should treat it the same. Irl standards don't always apply to verse and their weirdness - which obviously makes it unique and fun when it comes to story and cosmology.

 

[Quantu]

Tbh the implications and statements of infinite/endless is hard to ignore

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

first successful buff in a while?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

If this gets accepted, I need to remind you all to keep in mind that the galaxies and stars and such are finite but the 3D space is infinite.

I have the raw translations, I just need to find them.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

If this gets accepted, I need to remind you all to keep in mind that the galaxies and stars and such are finite but the 3D space is infinite.

I have the raw translations, I just need to find them.

I found them.






As you can see there are 4 total statements. 2 saying that the stars are infinitely expanding (3-A) and 2 calling space infinite (High 3-A)

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Zamasu.

 

[Orange]

Source for infinity being able to have an end?

The numbers between 0 and 1 are infinite [0,1- 0,2 - 0,3 etc...] plus higher infinities do exist [infinity, countable infinity, uncountable infinity]

I found them.






As you can see there are 4 total statements. 2 saying that the stars are infinitely expanding (3-A) and 2 calling space infinite (High 3-A)

Technically wouldn't both be high 3-A? You need infinite space to contain infinite/countless galaxies or galaxies that exists infinitely. And luckily , we have statements that there is an infinite space, filled with infinite matter/celestial objects.

 

[Greenshifter]

Source for infinity being able to have an end?

The existence of rays.

Also the other realms in the macrocosm are spatially separated from the living world. Thus if we accept infinite size living world, Bulma’s statement would still make sense as she would be referencing the dimensional wall between the living world and the other realms.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Also the other realms in the macrocosm are spatially separated from the living world. Thus if we accept infinite size living world, Bulma’s statement would still make sense as she would be referencing the dimensional wall between the living world and the other realms.

Damn. That actually makes sense.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

In the graphic that accompanies her statement, we can see the edge of the universe, which is then followed by more space and stars and stuff.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

They made a remark on super (anime)

 

[Greenshifter]

Oh wait my deleted scan is manga which we can’t use Ig.

Anyways can someone give me the relevant scan then?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Also Vegeta even brings up other universes in the same scan, so she’s aware that there is a 4D edge anyways.

That is an unsubstantiated non-sequitur. For all we know, Bulma could be under the belief that all the universes are spatially connected.

 

[Greenshifter]

That is an unsubstantiated non-sequitur. For all we know, Bulma could be under the belief that all the universes are spatially connected.

And thus pretty much completely discredit her when it comes to cosmology based on your headcanon? You go ahead and do that while I just try to make it consistent.

 

[Vietthai96]

really, in light of that, her statement doesn't fully contradict anything via Toriyama being weird

Nah, the Bulma statement is not belong to Toriyama, it is Toei's thing. Idk about manga due to skipping U6 vs U7 arc. It is a common knowledge already, Toriyama just threw out the outline of the story, Toei and Toyotaro do their own thing. Unlike the day of DBZ where he actually draw the manga and Toei made the anime based on it with some fillers.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Aren’t the end points of Universes 6 and 7 visibly shown :V

 

[Bernkastelll]

Aren’t the end points of Universes 6 and 7 visibly shown :V

i clearly see them as infinite there

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

So Anime Finite, Manga infinite? could that be the conclusion here?

 

[Orange]

The visuals doesn't help much yes, but exactly how is the animation team supposed to portray two close infinite sized universes without drawing them in a finite manner?

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Don't draw them at all /J

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Nah, the Bulma statement is not belong to Toriyama, it is Toei's thing. Idk about manga due to skipping U6 vs U7 arc. It is a common knowledge already, Toriyama just threw out the outline of the story, Toei and Toyotaro do their own thing. Unlike the day of DBZ where he actually draw the manga and Toei made the anime based on it with some fillers.

Son. You definitely didn’t read the manga.

Aren’t the end points of Universes 6 and 7 visibly shown :V

I double dog dare you to test me on semantics you faker.

 

[Vietthai96]

Son. You definitely didn’t read the manga.

I did say that i skipped U6 vs U7 arc though, in anime this arc is where Bulma mention the edge thing