Question about dragon ball universe size

[Galaxi789]

I remember lord griffin would support the update if there were scans to support it. damage and medeus didn't give a truth argument why they didn't want the update

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah okay I agree he has limited time and is pretty busy aswell, but why is he trying to make a rule and close this thread without even replying to all the arguments though? Dosen't exactly sounds like something staffs should do tbh

Because he has limited time and energy available, with many other more important tasks to do, and doesn't want to spend many hundreds of hours more of his life arguing about this specific subject over the years, as that will presumably cause him to feel like repeatedly hitting his head against a wall.

Again, this isn't remotely about any dislike for Dragon Ball, it is about practical concerns, so you all need to make things as easy as possible for him to properly evaluate.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Again, he has very limited time and energy available for this, and has plenty of more important tasks to do, both IRL and in this community. If you all try to make things much simpler for him than trying to make sense of disparate points spread out over several hundred posts, that would really help for his time schedule.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. While I understand that he's staff and got tasks to do here, hw still should present his points and debate like everyone else, especially when he's the one that presented the arguments against. And if he's busy in other things, then he should definitely NOT close off threads and make more and more discussion rules just to shut down otner people's opinions when he never bothered to address counter arguments.

As for being busy, I'll acknowledge you that staff are not the only ones that have busy lifes. Many of the normal users, including myself, have jobs, studies and other hobbies that limit the time we devote to threads and content on the wiki. However that doesn't mean we can just ignore stuff we don't want to see.

While I have a lot of respect for the wiki and for the staff who work in it, ignoring our points when we worked so hard to gather the scans, evidences and what not, is simply disrespectful. It makes it seems like the time of regular users and their opinion simply doesn't matter and that the work we did here is nothing more than a waste of time

 

[Antvasima]

Can you all please immediately stop spamming unconstructive time-consuming hostile or argumentative posts about why staff members cannot do anything right, and start collaborating with me by simply starting a private message thread here in this forum for the most knowledgeable members here, in which you all collects your most important points and explain them in very easy to understand manner in a single post.

Otherwise you will not get anywhere here, and believe it or not, I also have to sleep, and have many many other tasks to handle before I go to bed. I am trying to help out of consideration here, but I cannot be the only party who is willing to collaborate.

 

[Antvasima]

I don’t think there’s an anti-DB agenda.

But I do think there’s an ongoing issue on this site where a lot of staff seem to just “not want to” or are “uninterested” in evaluating threads, when, and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s more or less their job?

I feel so bad when I see you on almost every thread pinging 5+ staff members to evaluate CRT’s and they just seemingly ignore you or blow off their staff responsibilities.

it’s not AKM’s sole responsibility to debate 5 DB supporters on this thread by himself.

I honestly am starting to think there should be rules out in place that require staff to partake in threads in some form. Obviously real life comes first and I understand that, but something must be done to bridge the gap between regular users and staff members that gets rid of this “us vs them” mentality, and reduces the stress on single staff members in these situations.

I, Medeus, and Damage, are likely the only ones who treat wiki management as a full time (or in my case double-time) job. The rest do this as a hobby, and have real life studies and/or work to take care of. We make do via the sheer quantity of staff members, but I definitely cannot force them to destroy themselves for the sake of arguing online all day, nor do I want to do so. They help out with what they find the time and interest for, and I am very grateful for that, even if we do not remotely have the resources to handle everything.

 

[Hasty12345]

I, Medeus, and Damage, are likely the only ones who treat wiki management as a full time (or in my case double-time) job. The rest do this as a hobby, and have real life studies and/or work to take care of. We make do via the sheer quantity of staff members, but I definitely cannot force them to destroy themselves for the sake of arguing online all day, nor do I want to do so. They help out with what they find the time and interest for, and I am very grateful for that, even if we do not remotely have the resources to handle everything.

The simple fix to this is to give verse supporters more influence over the verses they support.

just an idea.

 

[Antvasima]

Then we would figuratively eventually end up with tier 0 virtually everything, due to every fan group competing with each other.

 

[Hasty12345]

Then we would figuratively eventually end up with tier 0 virtually everything, due to every fan group competing with each other.

1) I highly doubt that.

2) I’m not saying staff shouldn’t have a role, but there’s seriously no point in having verse supporters if they’re no more reliable than any random user.

3) they wouldn’t out rank staff, but would allow for CRT’s to move forward in the absence of staff participation.

im sure a set of rules and outlines could be worked out such that verse supporters feel useful but can’t overstep

 

[Damage3245]

1) I highly doubt that.

2) I’m not saying staff shouldn’t have a role, but there’s seriously no point in having verse supporters if they’re no more reliable than any random user.

3) they wouldn’t out rank staff, but would allow for CRT’s to move forward in the absence of staff participation.

im sure a set of rules and outlines could be worked out such that verse supporters feel useful but can’t overstep

That is just a recipe for fans to endlessly upgrade their series without proper oversight.

 

[Vietthai96]

Can you all please immediately stop spamming unconstructive time-consuming hostile or argumentative posts about why staff members cannot do anything right, and start collaborating with me by simply starting a private message thread here in this forum for the most knowledgeable members here, in which you all collects your most important points and explain them in very easy to understand manner in a single post.

We don't want to, but since you always defend AKM, wen can't do anything aside from pointing out the flaw, however me or everyone have no malicious intention, we frustrated because how AKM treated us, or at least our arguments

Otherwise you will not get anywhere here, and belive it or not, I also have to sleep, and have many many other tasks to handle before I go to bed. I am trying to help out of consideration here, but I cannot be the only party who is willing to collaborate.

Anyway, good sleep Ant, sorry to make you worry too much, i'm a blunt person so forgive me

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Then we would figuratively eventually end up with tier 0 virtually everything, due to every fan group competing with each other.

Maybe not 0, but definitely at least 1-A. People will use the flimsiest of flimsiest justification to prove why their favorite character is 1-A. Which is why i actually like vs battles more then CSAP because how strict it is.

 

[Antvasima]

I said figuratively, not literally. The point is that the ratings would turn extremely exaggerated and unreliable.

Regardless, can everybody please stop derailing here and start focusing on the task that I gave you in order to simplify things for AKM to evaluate. I have many other tasks to do and do not remotely have much more time to waste on this subject.

 

[Hasty12345]

That is just a recipe for fan's to endlessly upgrade their series without proper oversight.

As opposed to Ant pinging staff 30 times a thread to get anything done?

I also never once said staff shouldn’t need to be involved, but 1 staff member can literally stone wall CRTs even when they’re opposed by a majority of members and use logical fallacies as the crux of their argument.

you tell me what’s better for the community.

 

[Damage3245]

As opposed to Ant pinging staff 30 times a thread to get anything done?

I also never once said staff shouldn’t need to be involved, but 1 staff member can literally stone wall CRTs even when they’re opposed by a majority of members and use logical fallacies as the crux of their argument.

you tell me what’s better for the community.

The solution to that is to get more staff involved. Sure, it might take you a while, but I've seen CRT's get solved all the time by staff being called in to give an evaluation and serve as tie-breakers sometimes.

 

[Hasty12345]

The solution to that is to get more staff involved. Sure, it might take you a while, but I've seen CRT's get solved all the time by staff being called in to give an evaluation and serve as tie-breakers sometimes.

God forbid regular members feel like they have some say in things…

 

[Antvasima]

We don't want to, but since you always defend AKM, wen can't do anything aside from pointing out the flaw, however me or everyone have no malicious intention, we frustrated because how AKM treated us, or at least our arguments

He does not intend to treat you badly. He simply does not have enough free time to respond to anywhere near everything here, as it all bloats together into an incoherent mess. That is why I suggested that you should try to make things much more simplified for him and possibly other staff members to focus on evaluating.

There are no guarantees, but it is definitely your best shot at this point.

Anyway, good sleep Ant, sorry to make you worry too much, i'm a blunt person so forgive me

I will not sleep yet. I just meant that I am significantly behind with my schedule because of this and have to sleep eventually. I also haven't quite recovered from being sick and repeatedly throwing up.

Anyway, no problem.

 

[Jinsama]

dragonbal ball is very popular so i dont have any problems with the super high standards when it comes to DB

 

[Antvasima]

God forbid regular members feel like they have some say in things…

Regular members have a say in things. They present the evidence, and the evidence usually get accepted by our staff who evaluate it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

dragonbal ball is very popular so i dont have any problems with the super high standards when it comes to DB

Stop derailing. This comment add nothing relevant to the discussion and just gets it off course

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I will not sleep yet. I just meant that I am significantly behind with my schedule because of this and have to sleep eventually. I also haven't quite recovered from being sick and repeatedly throwing up.

Very sorry to hear that. I hope you recover soon.

 

[Hasty12345]

Regular members have a say in things. They present the evidence, and the evidence usually get accepted by our staff who evaluate it.

I kind of feel like my point has been missed here, and that’s ok.

im not going to clutter the thread any longer, nor will I bother trying to remedy what is clear to me a potential site wide mentality that effects the relationship between staff and non-staff.

But I will finish by saying I feel like I his community can be so much more by what seems to me like a small change.

 

[AKM sama]

I'm mad not because of rating, but blatantly bad arguments come from a staffs. And using the excuse that bruh this is fiction is one of the worst excuse, if you just: bruh this is just fiction, then why join vs debate in the first place???

This has nothing to do with ratings. However when the pro side arguments constantly get ignored by staff and they respond with weak arguments, then it's infuriating because it feels like a waste of time

We agree to disagree. My arguments may sound weak to you, and I feel the same way about yours. There is nothing that could be done here other than repeating ourselves. We could spend 10 more pages and it won't change a thing. At some point, a decision has to be made, and it has been made by people who are supposed to make these decisions.

Looks good. Here are other threadswhere infinite DB was discussed if more examples are needed.

Thank you for finding them. Those can be linked as well.

 

[Vietthai96]

We agree to disagree. My arguments may sound weak to you, and I feel the same way about yours. There is nothing that could be done here other than repeating ourselves. We could spend 10 more pages and it won't change a thing. At some point, a decision has to be made, and it has been made by people who are supposed to make these decisions.

But you failed to prove why our arguments is weak, while we already proved why your is weak. We proved it with scan and arguments, why you only repeated yourself with the same old thing. So tell me why your arguments should be placed higher than our?????

 

[AKM sama]

But you failed to prove why our arguments is weak, while we already proved why your is weak. We proved it with scan and arguments, why you only repeated yourself with the same old thing. So tell me why your arguments should be placed higher than our?????

That is your opinion. In my opinion, you failed to prove my arguments weak and kept repeating headcanon definition.
And the people responsible to make the decisions made the decisions keeping that in mind.

Once again, you think you are right. I think I am right. We agree to disagree.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

We agree to disagree. My arguments may sound weak to you, and I feel the same way about yours. There is nothing that could be done here other than repeating ourselves. We could spend 10 more pages and it won't change a thing. At some point, a decision has to be made, and it has been made by people who are supposed to make these decisions.

I didn't agree to anything. You did not address anything and just pretend like everything we made simply don't exist. You didn't even bothered to even read, or respond to points from either me, Viettal, Ottavio and the other people who argued for the pro side. So tell me, why do you ignore them? We already disproved everything you said and that you argue from authority and name fallacy, as well as never addressing our points. So why is it? Why should we believe your argument should be placed above everyone else?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That is your opinion. In my opinion, you failed to prove my arguments weak and kept repeating headcanon definition.
And the people responsible to make the decisions made the decisions keeping that in mind.

Maybe, if you would actually read what we said, AND address our points in a structured manner like how we did to your points, then we could talk. Your points so far were based of ignorance to our arguments and you pretending that they don't exist, hence why you say "you failed to prove my arguments weak and kept repeating headcanon definition"

 

[Vietthai96]

That is your opinion. In my opinion, you failed to prove my arguments weak and kept repeating headcanon definition.
And the people responsible to make the decisions made the decisions keeping that in mind.

Once again, you think you are right. I think I am right. We agree to disagree.

Sorry AKM, but with all due respect, you say our arguments is headcanon, however we actually posted scans to prove our points. What is your scan again???, the cropped one???. everything opinion can be called headcanon, even your, however we prove our with proper scans and arguments, your on the other hand, have no such a thing, you actually the one who repeated himself, while we constantly posting scan

 

[AKM sama]

If your arguments were not inconsequential or made better sense, I am sure most of the staff members present here would have agreed with your arguments. We don't have to convince each other to reach a decision.

 

[Antvasima]

It would probably help to potentially convince AKM if you, Gilad, and the other knowledgeable members talk in private and write a single post that explains all of the remaining points that you have in a concise and easy to understand manner. Again, AKM has very limited time available, and this discussion has been all over the place.

Again, he has very limited time and energy available for this, and has plenty of more important tasks to do, both IRL and in this community. If you all try to make things much simpler for him than trying to make sense of disparate points spread out over several hundred posts, that would really help for his time schedule.

Regardless, can everybody please stop derailing here and start focusing on the task that I gave you in order to simplify things for AKM to evaluate. I have many other tasks to do and do not remotely have much more time to waste on this subject.

Can you all please immediately stop spamming unconstructive time-consuming hostile or argumentative posts about why staff members cannot do anything right, and start collaborating with me by simply starting a private message thread here in this forum for the most knowledgeable members here, in which you all collects your most important points and explain them in very easy to understand manner in a single post.

Otherwise you will not get anywhere here, and believe it or not, I also have to sleep, and have many many other tasks to handle before I go to bed. I am trying to help out of consideration here, but I cannot be the only party who is willing to collaborate.

He does not intend to treat you badly. He simply does not have enough free time to respond to anywhere near everything here, as it all bloats together into an incoherent mess. That is why I suggested that you should try to make things much more simplified for him and possibly other staff members to focus on evaluating.

There are no guarantees, but it is definitely your best shot at this point.

So, about this...

Would, Vietthai, Gilad, Zamasu, and possibly others be willing to to prepare a matter-of-fact, concise, and easy to understand post with ALL of their most important arguments in private please? AKM can probably evaluate it after he get more free time, hopefully after a week or so.

 

[Vietthai96]

Would, Vietthai, Gilad, Zamasu, and possibly others be willing to to prepare a matter-of-fact, concise, and easy to understand post with ALL of their most important arguments please? AKM can probably evaluate it after he get more free time, hopefully after a week or so.

We can, unless AKM rushing to close the thread and making discussion rule

 

[AKM sama]

Would, Vietthai, Gilad, Zamasu, and possibly others be willing to to prepare a matter-of-fact, concise, and easy to understand post with ALL of their most important arguments in private please? AKM can probably evaluate it after he get more free time, hopefully after a week or so.

You basically told them to write a new OP again. Wtf? Will this thread never end? I am not repeating myself again on this thread, I am sorry. I did not sign up for this torture, I am out.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Considering the thread has nearly reached 900 posts I wouldn’t consider AKM choosing to conclude it “rushing”.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

You basically told them to write a new OP again. Wtf? Will this thread never end? I am not repeating myself again on this thread, I am sorry. I did not sign up for this torture, I am out.

So just answer our points. This could end very quickly if you'd just do that and make actual argument rather than ignoring us and pretend our points don't exists. If you want to make real counter argument, then address our points, and go over them and explain why they don't work. Do that, and then you'll habe more of a case

 

[Arthex]

Imo, since both parties have already given their argument, some people should make it into a short staff-and-knowledgeable-members only thread, so both parties can evaluate it without any derail

and if any new point is brought up, its upto the defender to answer it( could be akm or dbs supporters depending on what the point is ), they can try and argue about it as short as possible.

Trust me, no one wants to go through a 9 page long thread to evaluate something. and please I suggest taking your time and arguing about everything, not just close the thread instantly as soon as it is made.

 

[Antvasima]

You basically told them to write a new OP again. Wtf? Will this thread never end? I am not repeating myself again on this thread, I am sorry. I did not sign up for this torture, I am out.

Okay. I suppose that I will have to close this thread then in lack of better options. My apologies everybody, but it is either that or you all continuing to talk between yourselves for another 900 posts without anything happening here, due to a lack of staff evaluations.

 

[Confluctor]

Since it was closed abruptly, Gilad wanted me to rely one last message here.

"We still had points for AKM and it is not fair to us that Ant closed off the thread without them responding."

 

[Antvasima]

AKM is thoroughly exhausted by this discussion, extremely busy IRL and with other community tasks, and told us outright that he does not have the stamina to endure the pain of continuing to argue in this thread any more than he already has, so it is extremely unlikely that anything will happen here. My apologies.

 

[AKM sama]

Not a good idea to reply to an already closed thread. A thread nearing 900 replies with no new material being presented wouldn't be called an abruptly closed thread, especially since this topic has been discussed and rejected earlier. No new material has been posted since several hundred comments, people are debating over interpretations in a never ending circular loop. Everything has already been stated in the thread, both parties made their own sense of whatever material is given. And every interpretation is there for everybody to see.

It's a matter of which interpretation makes more sense and what is the more logical and likely outcome. Which was decided by majority of the staff present here, not just me. Even if I did outline the problems with the opposite interpretation, if someone thinks that it was not enough to thoroughly discredit it, it doesn't have to. Generally speaking, one outcome can be significantly better, logical and likely than another even if the other one is not completely demolished. Of course, people are free to disagree and think theirs was better than the one chosen by others. It is what it is.

If there comes a new argument from a brand new material, feel free to create the thread and change the cosmology. I'll help, even. But until then, I'll apply the discussion rule that was decided to be applied.

My apologies if not everybody can be satisfied all the time. (I respond much better when I am not faced with a horde of people all arguing with me at the same time with 20 new comments every time I refresh.)

 

[Antvasima]

No problem AKM. Thank you for helping out for as long as you did.