Pre-Crisis Superman vs Jiren

[Zensum]

Yea the Jaxon feat is atleast 2-C lowballing, they decided on the CRT that 2-C+ Supes is an outlier but still put the feat on the profile for some reason and called it low 2-C.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

To me that denotes that Whis knows how strong Jiren truly is, as in full power Jiren that is comparable to MUI Goku, who even Beerus was scared/in awe of.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yea the Jaxon feat is atleast 2-C lowballing, they decided on the CRT that 2-C+ Supes is an outlier but still put the feat on the profile for some reason and called it low 2-C.

Well, that's weird.

 

[Zensum]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2121713 This the CRT if u wanna look at it.

 

[KLOL506]

Welp. Supes gets kicked to baseline Low 2-C or to Captain Atom's level.

Matt did say that Supes has Low 2-C feats from the Phantom Zone storyline and that those would be used instead.

 

[Warren_Valion]

To me that denotes that Whis knows how strong Jiren truly is, as in full power Jiren that is comparable to MUI Goku, who even Beerus was scared/in awe of.

I believe that we think this already, as it falls in line with Jiren being greater than G.o.D. Toppo and with the guide that said that UlO 3 Goku or MUI was on the level or surpassed Beerus.

UlO 3 Goku is comparable to Jiren and MUI stomped him.


So yeah, I think that's the consensus of the wiki.

 

[Toshiohex]

Yep, I found the scan, it's actually posted on Superman's profile. The guy in the purple suit is pretty much explaining to Shazzam that the universe = Multiverse actually. One big bang would be baseline Multiverse level (in which superman can tank). This is even backed up by statements saying the DC universe is bigger than a normal universe. So superman can one shot jiren, plus he has good hax, almost making this a stomp. So I Vote for Superman.

 

[The_Smashor]

Superman isn't above Low 2-C until somebody makes a CRT.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Warren

Clearly not, or else we wouldn't have UIO1 Goku and Kefla listed as Low 2-C. If the Low 2-C power tree really did start with GoD Toppo and full power Jiren, we'd need some changes (which I think we do). But I'm derailing and I'll bring that up later.

 

[Wokistan]

MUI didn't exactly stomp Jiren. He won, yeah, but Jiren still put up a fight and Goku needed to get mad to just overpower him.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Wok

I'm going to continue this on your wall to avoid clutter.

 

[KLOL506]

Superman isn't above Low 2-C until somebody makes a CRT.

CRT was done long back. It was decided to use Superman's Low 2-C feats from the Phantom Zone storyline, or he'd simply be scaled to Superboy-Prime.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yep, I found the scan, it's actually posted on Superman's profile. The guy in the purple suit is pretty much explaining to Shazzam that the universe = Multiverse actually. One big bang would be baseline Multiverse level (in which superman can tank). This is even backed up by statements saying the DC universe is bigger than a normal universe. So superman can one shot jiren, plus he has good hax, almost making this a stomp. So I Vote for Superman.

That means Superman isn't low 2-C. So make a CRT.

 

[KLOL506]

Yep, I found the scan, it's actually posted on Superman's profile. The guy in the purple suit is pretty much explaining to Shazzam that the universe = Multiverse actually. One big bang would be baseline Multiverse level (in which superman can tank). This is even backed up by statements saying the DC universe is bigger than a normal universe. So superman can one shot jiren, plus he has good hax, almost making this a stomp. So I Vote for Superman.

Feat was declared an outlier and we concluded that Pre-Crisis Supes would be scaled to Superboy-Prime and have his Phantom Zone storyline feats instead.

 

[Toshiohex]

KLOL506, Outlier? You mean it was inconsistent? I think I can help explain. This is a actual statement about a DC Universe being bigger than a regular universe (Though I may need help finding it, but I can swear it's there ). Also, it is possible that supes may be able to attack with that degree of power, but probably not flat out cause a big bang in every panel like some computer screen saver 3-D animation or fireworks display. It's like him having the "mass" of a Multiverse but not the environmental destruction.

Or perhaps did you mean something else I'm not quite getting?

 

[Hans0l013123897]

Jiren glares

 

[KLOL506]

KLOL506, Outlier? You mean it was inconsistent? I think I can help explain. This is a actual statement about a DC Universe being bigger than a regular universe (Though I may need help finding it, but I can swear it's there ). Also, it is possible that supes may be able to attack with that degree of power, but probably not flat out cause a big bang in every panel like some computer screen saver 3-D animation or fireworks display. It's like him having the "mass" of a Multiverse but not the environmental destruction.
Or perhaps did you mean something else I'm not quite getting?

Said statement about the universe being bigger than ours applies exclusively to the Post-Crisis Universe, not the Pre-Crisis one.

 

[IvoryAS]

Superman is also far above baseline . So Jiren doesnt one shot. Superman is stronger more intelligent and outhaxes him really bad. Superman wins easily.

So how does Jiren beat someone literally just off of infinitely baseline again?

 

[Warren_Valion]

So how does Jiren beat someone literally just off of infinitely baseline again?

Because that feat:

1. Isn't infinitely above baseline, its at least 2-C to what could be 2-A.

2. Not applied to the profile

3. Likely a big ******* outlier

 

[CryoTheMayo]

If it's not included Jiren stomps. If that feat is included then Superman obviously stomps and should get a CRT to 2-C upwards to 2-A.

 

[Warren_Valion]

If it's not included Jiren stomps. If that feat is included then Superman obviously stomps and should get a CRT to 2-C upwards to 2-A.

Jiren doesn't stomp for reasons stated above.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

You'll have to point me to it. Do you refer to Superman stomping with the feat that I just said would be a stomp if it is included? or do you refer to the hax that requires Superman to concentrate incredibly hard to perform? There's a LOT of posts here that go both ways.

Supes is either baseline or ridiculously above Low 2-C from what I have seen here whereas Jiren is blatantly hunderds of times baseline upwards to thousands of times.

 

[Warren_Valion]

You'll have to point me to it. Do you refer to Superman stomping with the feat that I just said would be a stomp if it is included? or do you refer to the hax that requires Superman to concentrate incredibly hard to perform? There's a LOT of posts here that go both ways.

Supes is either baseline or ridiculously above Low 2-C from what I have seen here whereas Jiren is blatantly hunderds of times baseline upwards to thousands of times.

This part of the thread.

This is the most likely solution of what would happen.

Either Jiren fires out a Ki blast and because he's so much stronger physically, he wins or Superman mind controls him.

Since we don't know what would happen first, this is an inconclusive.

 

[The_Calaca]

I think it comes to wheter is a most possible outcome: how often does Jiren goes Owari Da or Sups mindhaxes.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I think it comes to wheter is a most possible outcome: how often does Jiren goes Owari Da or Sups mindhaxes.

They are going to use everything in their arsenal because they are bloodlusted, so it really comes down to which one does their thing first.

 

[The_Calaca]

I know but Sups would likely try to mindhax after trying something else, like punching or heat visioning which is a most possible way to start a fight if the mindhax isn't 100% in-character like it would to for Uchihas.

 

[Paul_Frank]

So jiren goes owari da

Supes mindhax because the wikis definition of bloodlust is dumb

Supes still dies because mindhax doesn't stop him from being hit

 

[Warren_Valion]

I know but Sups would likely try to mindhax after trying something else, like punching or heat visioning which is a most possible way to start a fight if the mindhax isn't 100% in-character like it would to for Uchihas.

The contestants are bloodlusted, they are explicitly OoC.

 

[The_Calaca]

Yes, but in the plethora of possibilities Sups leading with mindhax is more unlikely than Jiren glaring.

 

[Paul_Frank]

The problem with the wikis definition of bloodlust is

Since bloodlust here means acts out of character and does anything to win rather than kill we still can't act like they know what is needed to win

Supes never really mindhaxed in character but being bloodlusted means he's ooc

that still doesn't mean he starts with mindhax out of everything he has why would he chose mindhax still

 

[The_Calaca]

>that still doesn't mean he starts with mindhax

This.

 

[Toshiohex]

Being out of character means a lot of things. This means superman can be anything BUT heroic. So he could use mind hax just to show jiren that "Hey, I can beat you, even without punching you"! Or he can do it just to be a evil jerk. There are so many ways.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Difference is that Jiren wins with anything that isn't "not attacking". Supes has one thing out of a multitude that we can't even say if he will use that before anything useless. Jiren one shots.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Being ooc can also mean he's just as likely to start out with heat vision or punch him full force ot try bfr

We can't assume that morals off ooc=mindhax first move

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I see. Changing my vote to Jiren fra.

 

[Toshiohex]

Paul Frank, bro, that means that we also can't assume he WOULDN'T use mind hax out of character. Being out of character could also mean that jiren would just jump in and try and choke superman, giving him a chance to mind hax. This could also mean that Jiren WOULD NOT use his expert hand to hand skill due to being blood-lusted and out of character. He would just try and swing till he knocks out superman. I mean, it can mean so much more than we think for both characters.

 

[Toshiohex]

BTW, does that mean kicking in the balls is allowed? (blood-lusted, out of character)

 

[JackJoyce]

Superman's mindhax is a joke and he never used it against someone comparable to his strength. Also he needs a fair amount of time to concentrate. Jiren stomps being way above baseline and having far better skillsets

 

[CryoTheMayo]

If you go with that argument then I have to question why Jiren doesn't just freeze Superman solid with telekinesis (a trait every fighter in DB uses for advanced ki techniques) and kill him.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Because literally anything jiren does that can hurt kills supes

Meanwhile supes has to use mindhax which even with bloodlust we can't say he just starts out with