Pre-Crisis Superman vs Jiren

[Toshiohex]

I don't know buddy, the way it's explained seems 50/50 to me. Either one of them could do something out of character to help or harm themselves.

But I wonder that since most don't believe supes is above baseline and Jiren is more powerful than the phantom timeline superman, isn't this a stomp? ƒñö

 

[The_Calaca]

Jiren has 3 options. Glare, punch or ki blast.

Sups has punch, heat vision, freeze breath, mindhax, phase and a buttload of other powers.

Aló of Jiren's moves will kill Sups but only one of Sups' moves would kill Jiren.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If you go with that argument then I have to question why Jiren doesn't just freeze Superman solid with telekinesis (a trait every fighter in DB uses for advanced ki techniques) and kill him.

Pretty sure Jiren doesn't have TK...

 

[Toshiohex]

Calaca Vs, so I take that it is stomp right?

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

If you go with that argument then I have to question why Jiren doesn't just freeze Superman solid with telekinesis (a trait every fighter in DB uses for advanced ki techniques) and kill him.

Pretty sure Jiren doesn't have TK...

Shouldn't he, though? He was levitating rocks easily enough while meditating.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Never mind then

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Isn't that like... what happens when they power up?

Pretty sure most DB characters had a moment where their power made rocks levitate, it happened a lot in the android saga for sure.


It's not something that can be concentrated into an attack.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

If you go with that argument then I have to question why Jiren doesn't just freeze Superman solid with telekinesis (a trait every fighter in DB uses for advanced ki techniques) and kill him.

Pretty sure Jiren doesn't have TK...

As Orc said...Jiren definitely has telekinesis. Practically every fighter since the Saiyan saga has displayed some talent or ability for it. How else do you think characters can manipulate the movement of their attacks? Jiren actively meditates in the ToP and is depicted as lifting Kachi Katchin, which is a material even heavier and harder than normal Katchin, with his mind.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Isn't that like... what happens when they power up?
Pretty sure most DB characters had a moment where their power made rocks levitate, it happened a lot in the android saga for sure.


It's not something that can be concentrated into an attack.

Jiren wasn't powering up, though, all he was doing was meditating. He assumed a floating cross-legged position, red energy surrounded him, and then debris around him lifted into the air, wreathed in a red outline, much like when Freeza uses his telekinesis.

 

[JackJoyce]

Jiren has 3 options. Glare, punch or ki blast.

Sups has punch, heat vision, freeze breath, mindhax, phase and a buttload of other powers.

Aló of Jiren's moves will kill Sups but only one of Sups' moves would kill Jiren.

Jiren has Attack Reflection and he can also block intangible attacks

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Jiren wasn't powering up, though, all he was doing was meditating. He assumed a floating cross-legged position, red energy surrounded him, and then debris around him lifted into the air, wreathed in a red outline, much like when Freeza uses his telekinesis.

Yeah, but he was concentrating his energy.

Plus, telekinesis was also shown without outline.


Eh, doesn't matter much here.

 

[The_Calaca]

@Toshio stomp why?

@Jack only one of Sups' moves would kill Jire I'm pretty sure I didn't mentioned phase as an argument for Sups to win. Same with heat vision and freeze breath. I was talking about mindhax.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

When are we gonna realize that Hit's selective intangibility for his attacks aren't intangible when they make contact with an organic and are only intangible when passing through non-living objects?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I'm pretty sure Jiren punched Hit when Hit was still inside another dimension.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't remember that, but that would be pretty convincing evidence.

 

[The_Calaca]

Didn't Hit's attack phased Goku's body when he killed him? I thought that was the argument.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You mean like Frieza's do?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I don't remember that, but that would be pretty convincing evidence.

https://youtu.be/TXqsZ-mFss0?t=72

This is the scene in question. Hit is shown as going for an attack but we also clearly see that he was still intangible when Jiren punched him.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

You mean like Frieza's do?

He's referring to how Hit's shockwave punches go through clothing and cause a crumpling effect on the targeted location. Effectively appearing as him striking the target internally.

 

[JackJoyce]

I think baseline, but the DC universe is larger the usual one i believe. But Jiren is quite a bunch of times stronger than baseline low 2-C.

Pre-Crisis universe was never stated to be larger in the first place

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The size of a universe doesn't matter for low 2-C...

The amount of 3-D stuff that you destroy never does.


And if there are multiple timelines in it, it isn't really a universe.

 

[Toshiohex]

Ricsi-Viragosi, Im pretty sure the universe size does matter, that's why there's high universe level.

Also, you are correct, if it has multiple timelines, it's not a universe, it would actually be a Multiverse (which superman should be classed as). But it doesn't matter, it was counted as a outlier ƒÿó

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Universe size only matters for 3-A, not Low 2-C.

 

[Toshiohex]

Oh, I see what you're saying accel (The Divine Phoenix, your profile pic is accelerator right)?

It's all about DIMENSION size in order to be classed higher, not universe size, gotcha. That's what you were implying right?

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

It's Alcor.

That's about correct, Low 2-C is having the ability to destroy a single 4-D Space-Time continuum. The only way (I believe) to really scale Low 2-Cs is by being stronger than other Low 2-Cs.

 

[Toshiohex]

Alcor, according to what you believe (low 2-c being stronger than other low 2-C for a upgrade) and according to what everyone is saying about jiren being WAY above baseline, it seems that Jiren should be listed as at least low 2-C. ƒñö

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

No, that's not quite it, it's true that he's significantly above baseline, but the difference between Low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable and he doesn't have any higher feats. You should have a look at Tiering System.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Jiren doesn't exactly have feats hinting at 2-C so there is no need to say at least.

 

[Toshiohex]

Because I was wondering, in dragon ball super, there are only twelve universes and according to what I was told, Jiren is perhaps 30 or 40x universal. Zeno was listed at low multiversal while being able to destroy just only all twelve of them. ƒÿ▓ƒñö

 

[The_Smashor]

No. Do not use Emojis. It makes you sound dumb regardless of how right or wrong you are

 

[Yobo_Blue]

ƒæî

 

[Toshiohex]

Oh, it's against the policy?

 

[Dust_Collector]

There ain't nothing wrong with Emojis boi ƒÖâ

 

[Yobo_Blue]

ÔÿØ´©ÅÔÿØ´©ÅÔÿØ´©ÅÔÿØ´©Å

 

[Yobo_Blue]

It's all about placement.

 

[Toshiohex]

Maybe The Smasher somehow found it annoying, I'll stop. I just figured that its all just fun when it comes to these, but I don't wanna piss anyone off while doing it, that would take the fun away so I'll stop.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

You shouldn't use them when discussing something seriously or asking genuine questions.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Admittedly emojis aren't the best form of communication. They're better for abstract messages.

 

[Toshiohex]

Okay, I understand.

 

[Toshiohex]

So does this mean my question gets no reply for what I did?