Post-Crisis Wally West 2-A CRT

[Amakasu]

Three scans from different issues, and taken out of context, and yes the dimensions referred to here is not 'dimensionality" but 'space'.
Even if you get and say yes they are dimensionality you will have to prove they are higher infinities before you can even get a baseline 1-B rating.
And btw innumerable is not treated as infinite, at least not on this wiki.

Not my point to talk here, but want to clear something. In this comic it's stated there are infinte Universes and innumerable Dimensions, so by default it can't be pararel Universes as there's already given a set of Universes and a set of Dimensions which are not the same. I think Paul (the writer of the comic) said those are higher Dimensions and not pararel realities. And if I remember correctly Dimensions in dc are treated as higher infinty with captain adam and several myx and other scans.

btw I dont know anything about DC but yes this is not even a 1-C feat not to talk of high 1-B

....

 

[PrinceofPein]

Not my point to talk here, but want to clear something. In this comic it's stated there are infinte Universes and innumerable Dimensions,

You see why I said different scans taken out of context you can't really determine what they were referring to, cause one scan said infine realms and worlds within the realm e.t.c. thats a 1C structure at most.
Another said innumerable dimensions (wiki does not qualify that as infinite) and it said three steps above the characters dimensions and he can't understand it like a mosquito cant understand the depth of the ocean, anyone can argue that the dimensions are not higher infinities so yes still won't qualify for a 1B structure.

so by default it can't be pararel Universes as there's already given a set of Universes and a set of Dimensions which are not the same.

Different scans and issues taken out of context

I think Paul (the writer of the comic) said those are higher Dimensions and not pararel realities. And if I remember correctly Dimensions in dc are treated as higher infinty with captain adam and several myx and other scans.

Canon DC has just 5 higher dimensions as far as I know

 

[Amakasu]

You see why I said different scans taken out of context you can't really determine what they were referring to, cause one scan said infine realms and worlds within the realm e.t.c.

Oh, that one. I was talking about the Rama kushna one. Haven't read that Spectre or phantom stranger comicm

thats a 1C structure at most.
Another said innumerable dimensions (wiki does not qualify that as infinite) and it said three steps above the characters dimensions and he can't understand it like a mosquito cant understand the depth of the ocean, anyone can argue that the dimensions are not higher infinities so yes still won't qualify for a 1B structure.

No, the writer said innumerable is a number that's very high but still not infinte, therefore it's base minimum 1B. And deadman not understanding those Dimensions is a quality of higher dimensions. But Dimensions in dc are consistently higher infinties from my knowledge

Different scans and issues taken out of context

No, the only one I know is that Spectre comic Which I haven't read.

Canon DC has just 5 higher dimensions as far as I know

No, there are 6 which are not SPATIAL Dimensions.

 

[Amakasu]

Also let's not derail the thread

 

[PrinceofPein]

Oh, that one. I was talking about the Rama kushna one. Haven't read that Spectre or phantom stranger comicm

I haven't, I thought the only canon comics are new 52?

No, the writer said innumerable is a number that's very high but still not infinte, therefore it's base minimum 1B. And deadman not understanding those Dimensions is a quality of higher dimensions. But Dimensions in dc are consistently higher infinties from my knowledge

Well I think I will read the comics where this statement was made.
But for 1-B structure I dont think not comprehending higher dimensions is enough, it must be a reality-fiction difference

No, the only one I know is that Spectre comic Which I haven't read.

Neither have I, I will

No, there are 6 which are not SPATIAL Dimensions.

Yes

 

[Amakasu]

DC presents: issue 2 I guess

 

[manu_zarri]

Because, infinite energy is High 3-A, it has to be 4D in order to be 2-A, and pretty sure infinite 4D energy is just Low 2-C

Infinite energy is supposed to be High 3-A but if it's taked from each point of the timeline it can be even higher because it's uncontable infinite

4D Infinite is 2-A because it's a infinite collection of uncontable infinite, and simply being "infinitely" above baseline Low 2-C isn't infinite.

Just saying, im neutral with the CRT

also sorry for the derail

 

[Antvasima]

So what do Firestorm808, Eficiente, Medeus, and the knowledgeable members that I sent notifications to earlier, think that we should do here?

 

[sanicspood]

I completely agree with Wally getting upgraded to 2-C, possibly 2-A at peak. It should be fine.

i dont understand this "possibly" why put that if 1. there's more evidence for him being much higher and 2. he's literally done a 2-a feat. why should it be labeled as "possbily"

 

[Firestorm808]

So what do Firestorm808, Eficiente, Medeus, and the knowledgeable members that I sent notifications to earlier, think that we should do here?

Sorry. I'm still compiling stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

Sorry. I'm still compiling stuff.

Okay. No problem. We can wait.

 

[Greenshifter]

i dont understand this "possibly" why put that if 1. there's more evidence for him being much higher and 2. he's literally done a 2-a feat. why should it be labeled as "possbily"

The one with Barry is just range pretty sure, unless destabilization counts for 2-A. Scaling to the AM could give 2-C or 2-A depending on Spectre’s strength during the fight essentially.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

The one with Barry is just range pretty sure, unless destabilization counts for 2-A. Scaling to the AM could give 2-C or 2-A depending on Spectre’s strength during the fight essentially.

Isn't AM flat out 2-A tho

 

[Greenshifter]

He was weakened during his fight with Wally iirc.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

He was weakened during his fight with Wally iirc.

He regained his power after being supposedly defeated by pre crisis heroes

 

[Xearsay]

I haven't, I thought the only canon comics are new 52?

Well I think I will read the comics where this statement was made.
But for 1-B structure I dont think not comprehending higher dimensions is enough, it must be a reality-fiction difference

Neither have I, I will

Yes

Just saying. There’s a scan that compares higher dimensional perspectives to a reality to fiction difference. Not trying to derail or anything. I just wanted to let you know.

Issue: Multiversity Pax Americana.

 

[Greenshifter]

He regained his power after being supposedly defeated by pre crisis heroes

oh nvm then, I just knew people brought this up in a previous thread (and Nia as well). It's been a while since I last debated this.

 

[Gitagon]

Explain this then huh, this seems like it affected the Multiverse

Scales to Eobard who can knock out Super Woman who is a clone to Wonder Women

Can easily knock Hal Jordan with ease

Wanking Flash huh?

This sounds like some sort of bias, not accusing but this sounds like it.

I don't think using Superwoman is right of considering her durability is way below Wonder Woman, she got vaporized by Grail's Omega beams in Darkseid War.

It would have been one thing if Grail went on to be some High-tier villain but after that she remained a WW villain who the latter easily dispatched every fight they had since then.

 

[Deagonx]

There’s a statement that compares higher dimensional perspectives to a reality to fiction difference.

This is a misrepresentation of the text. The use of the comic book in his analogy isn't meant to highlight a reality->fiction difference, what he says in that scan is that he can willfully look through the entire story, forward or backwards, and plainly observe the thoughts of the characters, he never implies that he sees lower dimensions as fictional.

 

[Xearsay]

The use of the comic book in his analogy isn't meant to highlight a reality->fiction difference, what he says in that scan is that he can willfully look through the entire story, forward or backwards, and plainly observe the thoughts of the characters, he never implies that he sees lower dimensions as fictional.

Yes it is. He literally saids those things as he’s thinking about how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective.

“I’m thinking how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective.”

 

[Deagonx]

“I’m thinking how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective.”

I'm aware. Higher dimensional has nothing to do with fiction

 

[Xearsay]

I'm aware. Higher dimensional has nothing to do with fiction

What do you mean by "higher dimensional has nothing to do with fiction"? I don't really understand what you're trying to say here.

 

[Deagonx]

I don't really understand what you're trying to say

It's pretty straightforward. I explained how the comic book analogy wasn't indicative of him saying he sees the 3D world as fiction, based on what he actually said. You said it did, and followed that with his comment about a higher dimensional perspective, why did you do that if you didn't intend for that phrase to be evidence for him talking about fictionality? Higher dimensions don't see lower ones as fictional inherently.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Higher dimensions don't see lower ones as fictional inherently.

It also mentions to see it as ''FLAT'', u have Higher D and Flat statements

 

[Deagonx]

It also mentions to see it as ''FLAT'', u have Higher D and Flat statements

....neither of which imply fictionality. A 2D object is flat by definition, whether or not it's fictional.

 

[Bernkastelll]

....neither of which imply fictionality. A 2D object is flat by definition, whether or not it's fictional.

I know?

“I’m thinking how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective, Flat''

 

[Deagonx]

I know?

“I’m thinking how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective, Flat''

What point are you trying to make? If you don't state your conclusions from the evidence you're providing, then I have no way of knowing what you're trying to say.

 

[Xearsay]

It's pretty straightforward. I explained how the comic book analogy wasn't indicative of him saying he sees the 3D world as fiction, based on what he actually said. You said it did, and followed that with his comment about a higher dimensional perspective, why did you do that if you didn't intend for that phrase to be evidence for him talking about fictionality? Higher dimensions don't see lower ones as fictional inherently.

I highlighted the sentence to showcase that he's thinking about how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective while using the comic book analogy. I wasn't using it to argue that higher dimensions inherently see lower one's as fiction.

 

[Deagonx]

I highlighted the sentence to showcase that he's thinking about how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective while using the comic book analogy.

Yes, I'm aware. How is this evidence for your case that he's saying higher dimensions see lower dimensions as fictional? The fact that he's comparing a higher dimensional perspective was addressed in my initial response.

 

[Xearsay]

Yes, I'm aware. How is this evidence for your case that he's saying higher dimensions see lower dimensions as fictional? The fact that he's comparing a higher dimensional perspective was addressed in my initial response.

I'm not using that one statement within the scan as evidence.

You didn't address anything in your initial comment. You just claimed the scan wasn't expressing that higher dimensions see lower one's as fiction and then paraphrased a small part of the text that mentions the comic book analogy, while leaving out the part where he mentions thinking about a higher dimensional perspective prior to using the comic book analogy.

 

[Deagonx]

I'm not using that one statement within the scan as evidence.

Then why did you bring it up?

You didn't address anything in your initial comment. You just claimed the scan wasn't expressing that higher dimensions see lower one's as fiction and then paraphrased a small part of the text that mentions the comic book analogy

Yes, I was demonstrating what the comic book analogy meant using his own words.

while leaving out the part where he mentions thinking about a higher dimensional perspective prior to using the comic book analogy.

Because it wasn't critical to explaining the discrepancy between what you were saying and what the comic said. He was using a comic book as an analogy to explain the difference in a higher dimensional perspective, what he says in that scan is that he can willfully look through the entire story, forward or backwards, and plainly observe the thoughts of the characters, he never implies that he sees lower dimensions as fictional. The difference he highlights in his higher dimensional perspective is compared to the temporal transcendence one experiences when viewing a comic book (but I can flip through the pages in any order, any direction), and how the thoughts of the characters are plain to see.

Those are the sole aspects of reading a comic book he compares his higher dimensional perspective to, he never alludes to the notion that lower dimensions are fictional, nor is it implied anywhere in the text. Do you understand now?

 

[Xearsay]

Then why did you bring it up?

I highlighted the sentence to support that he's thinking about how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective while using the comic book analogy.

Those are the sole aspects of reading a comic book he compares his higher dimensional perspective to, he never alludes to the notion that lower dimensions are fictional, nor is it implied anywhere in the text. Do you understand now?

You realize that seeing the universe like how one see's a comic book is a reality to fiction difference right?

 

[Deagonx]

You realize that seeing the universe like how one see's a comic book is a reality to fiction difference right?

Analogies are not all encompassing, what an analogy means depends on how its used. He used the comic book as an analogy to demonstrate temporal transcendence, among other things, like being able to see thoughts.

He never alludes to fictionality being part of the higher dimensional perspective, that simply isn't anywhere in the scan. You're taking the comparison literally, despite him only using it to highlight a couple of specific aspects of reading a comic book. A reality fiction difference simply isn't implied anywhere in his analogy.

Likewise, Perpetua is far above Quantum Superman, yet doesn't have a reality->fiction layer separating her and the Justice League, which means even the highest beings in DC are on the same level of fictionality as the lowest.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Using all speed force is 2-A cause it moves the infinite multiverse, what’s so hard to understand here?

 

[Deagonx]

The multiverse wasn't infinite during this storyline, but I don't think moving a universe should be equated to beings who can destroy one. I can move a lot of things I couldn't destroy.

 

[Xearsay]

He used the comic book as an analogy to demonstrate temporal transcendence, among other things, like being able to see thoughts.

Yeah and with how it appears.

He never alludes to fictionality being part of the higher dimensional perspective, that simply isn't anywhere in the scan. You're taking the comparison literally, despite him only using it to highlight a couple of specific aspects of reading a comic book. A reality fiction difference simply isn't implied anywhere in his analogy.

He literally compared how one see's a comic book to how the universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective. That's implication of a reality fiction difference right there.

 

[Deagonx]

Yeah and with how it appears.

That's not an additional aspect, that's the context of what he is referring to by outlining the temporal transcendence.

He literally compared how one see's a comic book to how the universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective. That's implication of a reality fiction difference right there.

You're just repeating yourself without actually addressing the logical errors pointed out in my comment, so I'll respond in kind, until you're able to muster some kind of defense to the debunk other than repeating yourself:

Analogies are not all encompassing, what an analogy means depends on how its used. He used the comic book as an analogy to demonstrate temporal transcendence, among other things, like being able to see thoughts.

He never alludes to fictionality being part of the higher dimensional perspective, that simply isn't anywhere in the scan. You're taking the comparison literally, despite him only using it to highlight a couple of specific aspects of reading a comic book. A reality fiction difference simply isn't implied anywhere in his analogy.

Likewise, Perpetua is far above Quantum Superman, yet doesn't have a reality->fiction layer separating her and the Justice League, which means even the highest beings in DC are on the same level of fictionality as the lowest.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Likewise, Perpetua is far above Quantum Superman, yet doesn't have a reality->fiction layer separating her and the Justice League, which means even the highest beings in DC are on the same level of fictionality as the lowest.

Thats not true

 

[Alphaapexnep00]

Can we leave discussion of higher -d for another thread.

 

[Xearsay]

You're just repeating yourself without actually addressing the logical errors pointed out in my comment, so I'll respond in kind, until you're able to muster some kind of defense to the debunk other than repeating yourself:

You didn't point out any logical errors. You literally brought up Allen Adam using the comic book to compare how see's the universe as a way to debunk Allen Adam using the comic book to compare how he see's the universe. Which makes no sense btw.