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That works too
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Pokémon Trainer revisions (RPG Edition)
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
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FEAR Rattata has nothing to do with levels or battle facilities. It's clearly indicated that all Pokemon are set to be at a certain strength, unless you think that 49+ random trainers that you battle are all champion+ tier trainers.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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I don't. But FEAR Rattata has nothing to do with battle facilities, considering you face Pokemon such as Dialga/Palkia and Giratina in the wild, without any kind of battle facilities, and FEAR Rattata solos them. In fact, FEAR Rattata is a very popular method to beat Ultra Necrozma, so that mean that Rattata > Necrozma?
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FEAR Rattata is a competitive battle strat that abuses Game Mechanics, why are we considering that for scaling?
Gilad_Hyperstar
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You can also use any Pokemon with Sturdy + Endeavor + Priority. And this can happen naturally as sturdy doesn't rely on sashes
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Priority is the big one here, Quick Attack is not ALWAYS gonna go first in an actual match and can actually be dodged. Priority is a game mechanic
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Fax, Zygarde can be knocked back by not very effective 6-C moves
This is a game mechanic dude, Cal told you why its not an argument
Gilad_Hyperstar
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And scaling everyone to 2-A because of Battle Tree and such isn't game mechanics?
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Unless you want to claim every other JRPG are full of game mechanics, no.
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Can you actually read the OP for once? Nobody mentioned the game mechanics part of the Battle Tree, the main character canonically has to beat trainers in the Battle Tree
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Stop using JRPGs as a basis to your arguments, just because it shares a genre doesn't mean it is the same
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What? But "game mechanics" has been the most infamous arguments against some of the feats and scaling for a plethora of JRPG series for a while now regardless of how different the verses are, and I thought you were agreeing with OP. I'm also in support.
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I am not in support, i just won't try to oppose it since 1. It's cal and people actually listen to him and 2. Just as there's a lack of arguments there's also a lack of counterarguments and i ain't got time to think out complex rebuttals and have wall of text arguments with a message response coming out every few days
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Still disagree with OP, especially as it would be an outlier for Lucas and the rest to scale to 2-A based on a single instance (where you can: throw a master ball which basically mean you don't even battle Dialga/Palkia/Giratina, run away from the battle and not face them at all, or defeat them with game mechanics, as levels are game mechanics, unless people seriously want to say a Level 100 Pidgey is 2-A because it always one shots a Level 1 Arceus, even without FEAR strategies and the likes of that)
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I don't get what this has to do with my argument.
Context matters, the main character beats battle tree trainers when both teams are set to a specific strength level. That's not usable for scaling.
This is false, Giratina has shown to be capable of destroying the red chain. Dialga/Palkia break the red chain in legends: arceus too.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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I think that to not break all scaling with levels (since you can get the 2-A Dialga/Palkia/Giratina from the Sinjoh Ruins event in HGSS at level 1, and at level 1 pretty much all Pokemon are capable to overpower and/or one shot them, despite them being 2-A), as well as other game mechanics, I think we should probably treat the scaling based on the lore and the Pokemon's canon feats
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Okay so then the trainers can indeed fight these legendaries as they have specific dialogue when beating them and all and we know trained mon's potential is > wild Pokemon already
Sniper670
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Most of these don't line up with what I saw from PLA but you're the boss
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Why is it not usable for scaling? There's dialogue for it as well
Giratina is a lot stronger than Dialga and Palkia. The Red Chain in PLA is not as powerful as the one in the anime as palkia and dialga needed help to break it
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gyro, clover, starterpack, justsomeweirdo, DemonGodMitchAubin
XVII
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lv 100 charmander is NOT 2-A just because it beats arceus in-game
however
lv 1 arceus is 2-A despite losing to a caterpie because lore
as such, since the trainer can capture arceus, giratina and etc, the trainer can be 2-A via pokemon
so i agree with 2-A trainers
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@GyroNutz @CloverDragon03 @Starter_Pack @JustSomeWeirdo @DemonGodMitchAubin
What do you think about Gilad's concerns above?
What do you think about Gilad's concerns above?
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I've mentioned this before, but Gilad's concerns are almost entirely founded on Game Mechanics (like relying on levels and the whole "level 1 vs. level 100" argument and competitive strats like FEAR Rattata)
So, I still agree with this
So, I still agree with this
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They're set to specific strength levels. The "dialogue" can simply be referring to skill.
Palkia and Dialga were being controlled by the red chain in the anime/games, they didn't have the will to break the chains. Also that seems like circular reasoning - why do you think that the red chain is weaker in PLA?
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- Thread starter
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If anything, the Red Chain should be stronger in PLA, given the gods themselves helped Rei build it.
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Wouldn't make sense for Giratina to be a lot stronger anyways.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Giratina has always been stronger than Dialga and Palkia every single time.
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I never said it wasn't. I just said it doesn't make sense for it to be considerably more powerful like the one user claimed. The Creation Trio should all be on par with each other and if any one is stronger it should only be slightly.
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I mean yeah, Dialga was overpowered but was still able to fight off Giratina and escape.
But this is irrelevant, my main point was that Battle Tree and any other battle facilities should not be used for scaling.
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Giratina wasn't even harmed for that
Why do you think they are set to a specific strength level? Do you think its not a game mechanic?
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Not sure what the gif is meant to prove.
The entire point of the battle facilities is to battle with Pokemon set to a specific level. And I feel like you and others are misusing the game mechanics argument here - the only reason trainers are able to put up a fight against the player is because of this mechanic. Ignore the "game mechanics" and there's no scaling.
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Yes, but the Levels being equalized shouldn't discredit the dialogue literally meant to set up the player character & other trainers as seemingly being on equal footing, no?
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Which dialogue specifically?
Each protagonist scaling to their respective box art legend is fine, though I'm not fully convinced about the creation trio inside pokeballs and am against scaling via battle facilities. The former is mostly unanimous at this point, though if someone can do a vote tally to confirm that'd be great.
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