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Pokémon Trainer revisions (RPG Edition)

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Levels and Base stats are game mechanics though. You can have a level 1 Rattata beat Ultra Necrozma using FEAR strategies, but that doesn't mean it scales to it
FEAR Rattata has nothing to do with levels or battle facilities. It's clearly indicated that all Pokemon are set to be at a certain strength, unless you think that 49+ random trainers that you battle are all champion+ tier trainers.
 
What do you think that we should do here, GyroNutz? Gilad seemed to have valid concerns above about the chain-scaling problems resulting from this.
 
FEAR Rattata has nothing to do with levels or battle facilities. It's clearly indicated that all Pokemon are set to be at a certain strength, unless you think that 49+ random trainers that you battle are all champion+ tier trainers.
I don't. But FEAR Rattata has nothing to do with battle facilities, considering you face Pokemon such as Dialga/Palkia and Giratina in the wild, without any kind of battle facilities, and FEAR Rattata solos them. In fact, FEAR Rattata is a very popular method to beat Ultra Necrozma, so that mean that Rattata > Necrozma?
 
FEAR Rattata is a competitive battle strat that abuses Game Mechanics, why are we considering that for scaling?
 
You can also use any Pokemon with Sturdy + Endeavor + Priority. And this can happen naturally as sturdy doesn't rely on sashes
Priority is the big one here, Quick Attack is not ALWAYS gonna go first in an actual match and can actually be dodged. Priority is a game mechanic
 
It would be like 6-C. Make it after he shows his full team
Fax, Zygarde can be knocked back by not very effective 6-C moves

I don't. But FEAR Rattata has nothing to do with battle facilities, considering you face Pokemon such as Dialga/Palkia and Giratina in the wild, without any kind of battle facilities, and FEAR Rattata solos them. In fact, FEAR Rattata is a very popular method to beat Ultra Necrozma, so that mean that Rattata > Necrozma?
This is a game mechanic dude, Cal told you why its not an argument
 
What? But "game mechanics" has been the most infamous arguments against some of the feats and scaling for a plethora of JRPG series for a while now regardless of how different the verses are, and I thought you were agreeing with OP. I'm also in support.
 
What? But "game mechanics" has been the most infamous arguments against some of the feats and scaling for a plethora of JRPG series for a while now regardless of how different the verses are, and I thought you were agreeing with OP. I'm also in support.
I am not in support, i just won't try to oppose it since 1. It's cal and people actually listen to him and 2. Just as there's a lack of arguments there's also a lack of counterarguments and i ain't got time to think out complex rebuttals and have wall of text arguments with a message response coming out every few days
 
Still disagree with OP, especially as it would be an outlier for Lucas and the rest to scale to 2-A based on a single instance (where you can: throw a master ball which basically mean you don't even battle Dialga/Palkia/Giratina, run away from the battle and not face them at all, or defeat them with game mechanics, as levels are game mechanics, unless people seriously want to say a Level 100 Pidgey is 2-A because it always one shots a Level 1 Arceus, even without FEAR strategies and the likes of that)
 
Can somebody list all of the staff members who have commented here previously please, so I can ask them for input?
 
I don't. But FEAR Rattata has nothing to do with battle facilities, considering you face Pokemon such as Dialga/Palkia and Giratina in the wild, without any kind of battle facilities, and FEAR Rattata solos them. In fact, FEAR Rattata is a very popular method to beat Ultra Necrozma, so that mean that Rattata > Necrozma?
I don't get what this has to do with my argument.

Can you actually read the OP for once? Nobody mentioned the game mechanics part of the Battle Tree, the main character canonically has to beat trainers in the Battle Tree
Context matters, the main character beats battle tree trainers when both teams are set to a specific strength level. That's not usable for scaling.
The Lake Trio can literally destroy the red chain which the Creation Trio couldn't, and their true forms have no indication of being stronger, in fact they use their avatars when going all out in the manga, games and anime
This is false, Giratina has shown to be capable of destroying the red chain. Dialga/Palkia break the red chain in legends: arceus too.
 
I think that to not break all scaling with levels (since you can get the 2-A Dialga/Palkia/Giratina from the Sinjoh Ruins event in HGSS at level 1, and at level 1 pretty much all Pokemon are capable to overpower and/or one shot them, despite them being 2-A), as well as other game mechanics, I think we should probably treat the scaling based on the lore and the Pokemon's canon feats
 
Okay so then the trainers can indeed fight these legendaries as they have specific dialogue when beating them and all and we know trained mon's potential is > wild Pokemon already
 
Arceus' avatar is amped by his plates, which sustains the Original Spirit, and can destroy the cosmology, including his own realm. Original Spirit is barely stronger than his avatar
Most of these don't line up with what I saw from PLA but you're the boss
 
I don't get what this has to do with my argument.


Context matters, the main character beats battle tree trainers when both teams are set to a specific strength level. That's not usable for scaling.

This is false, Giratina has shown to be capable of destroying the red chain. Dialga/Palkia break the red chain in legends: arceus too.
Why is it not usable for scaling? There's dialogue for it as well

Giratina is a lot stronger than Dialga and Palkia. The Red Chain in PLA is not as powerful as the one in the anime as palkia and dialga needed help to break it
 
Why is it not usable for scaling? There's dialogue for it as well

Giratina is a lot stronger than Dialga and Palkia. The Red Chain in PLA is not as powerful as the one in the anime as palkia and dialga needed help to break it
lv 100 charmander is NOT 2-A just because it beats arceus in-game

however
lv 1 arceus is 2-A despite losing to a caterpie because lore

as such, since the trainer can capture arceus, giratina and etc, the trainer can be 2-A via pokemon

so i agree with 2-A trainers
 
I've mentioned this before, but Gilad's concerns are almost entirely founded on Game Mechanics (like relying on levels and the whole "level 1 vs. level 100" argument and competitive strats like FEAR Rattata)

So, I still agree with this
 
Okay. Thank you for the reply.
 
Why is it not usable for scaling? There's dialogue for it as well

Giratina is a lot stronger than Dialga and Palkia. The Red Chain in PLA is not as powerful as the one in the anime as palkia and dialga needed help to break it
They're set to specific strength levels. The "dialogue" can simply be referring to skill.

Palkia and Dialga were being controlled by the red chain in the anime/games, they didn't have the will to break the chains. Also that seems like circular reasoning - why do you think that the red chain is weaker in PLA?
 
They're set to specific strength levels. The "dialogue" can simply be referring to skill.

Palkia and Dialga were being controlled by the red chain in the anime/games, they didn't have the will to break the chains. Also that seems like circular reasoning - why do you think that the red chain is weaker in PLA?
If anything, the Red Chain should be stronger in PLA, given the gods themselves helped Rei build it.
 
I never said it wasn't. I just said it doesn't make sense for it to be considerably more powerful like the one user claimed. The Creation Trio should all be on par with each other and if any one is stronger it should only be slightly.
 
Thank you for helping out, GyroNutz.
 
I mean yeah, Dialga was overpowered but was still able to fight off Giratina and escape.

But this is irrelevant, my main point was that Battle Tree and any other battle facilities should not be used for scaling.
I mean yeah, Dialga was overpowered but was still able to fight off Giratina and escape.

Giratina wasn't even harmed for that

But this is irrelevant, my main point was that Battle Tree and any other battle facilities should not be used for scaling.

Why do you think they are set to a specific strength level? Do you think its not a game mechanic?
 
Giratina wasn't even harmed for that

Why do you think they are set to a specific strength level? Do you think its not a game mechanic?
Not sure what the gif is meant to prove.

The entire point of the battle facilities is to battle with Pokemon set to a specific level. And I feel like you and others are misusing the game mechanics argument here - the only reason trainers are able to put up a fight against the player is because of this mechanic. Ignore the "game mechanics" and there's no scaling.
 
Not sure what the gif is meant to prove.

The entire point of the battle facilities is to battle with Pokemon set to a specific level. And I feel like you and others are misusing the game mechanics argument here - the only reason trainers are able to put up a fight against the player is because of this mechanic. Ignore the "game mechanics" and there's no scaling.
Yes, but the Levels being equalized shouldn't discredit the dialogue literally meant to set up the player character & other trainers as seemingly being on equal footing, no?
 
So what do you think that we should do here, GyroNutz?
 
Yes, but the Levels being equalized shouldn't discredit the dialogue literally meant to set up the player character & other trainers as seemingly being on equal footing, no?
Which dialogue specifically?

So what do you think that we should do here, GyroNutz?
Each protagonist scaling to their respective box art legend is fine, though I'm not fully convinced about the creation trio inside pokeballs and am against scaling via battle facilities. The former is mostly unanimous at this point, though if someone can do a vote tally to confirm that'd be great.
 
Not sure what the gif is meant to prove.

The entire point of the battle facilities is to battle with Pokemon set to a specific level. And I feel like you and others are misusing the game mechanics argument here - the only reason trainers are able to put up a fight against the player is because of this mechanic. Ignore the "game mechanics" and there's no scaling.


the only reason trainers are able to put up a fight against the player is because of this mechanic

And why is that?
 
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