Pokemon Revision Thread

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So this is continued from this thread. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2254957.

Basically this thread is made for us to finish and sort out all the Pokemon Revisions. The OP will be updated with relevant information so that the current state of the revision can easily be seen for all users. This OP will not detail the changes, but only keep track of them. For context, it is best to follow the thread and read the previous one.

Fully Evolved Pokemon Stats
Current Rating: High 6-C - Large Island level

New Rating: 7-A - Mountain level+

Mega Pokemo
Current Rating: At least High 6-C - At least Large Island level

New Rating: Undecided

Mid Staged Pokemo
Current Rating: Low 7-B - Small City level

New Rating: Undecided

Weaker Legendary and Mythical Pokemo
Current Rating: At least 6-B - At least Country level+

New Rating: Undecided

Ho-Oh and Lugia and those who scale
Current Rating: At least High 6-B - At least Large Country level

New Rating: Undecided

Fully Evolved and Legendary Pokemon Speeds
Current Rating: Relativistic

New Rating: Undecided

Mid-Stage Pokemon Speeds
Current Rating: Sub-Relativistic

New Rating: Undecided

Current Discussion: Lightspeed Attacks

 

[WeeklyBattles]

We may want to keep this just for ap, the speed thing is a whole other can of worms given the lightspeed attacks argument

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well this is an overall revision. But I'll see what others decide. Also, I will just say that I am not a fan of using Fling for speed. Also where does Low 7-B Mid-Stages come from?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The calc for Seismic Toss

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Could you link it?

 

[The_Calaca]

For Mega Likley High 7-A is good enough or an At least 7-A+.

 

[Dark649]

It's this one Dragon, there is also this one for Charizard but was rejected.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why are we using the Seismic Toss Animation? Especially when when it's never displayed according to that animation.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragon It is actually displayed in the animations, there's a link to the animation in the calc itself, and the description backs it up

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That doesn't answer my question as this is completely inconsistent with every usage of it outside of the 3-D games. I am vehemently against using it seeing as it is never shown to flip the planet either.

 

[Overlord775]

Someone shoud re-calc Tyranitar's feat

It doesn't feel right that his feat is below that of his pre-evolution

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I love how the "The animation doesn't count" argument comes into play here when I can name three franchises that are freaking planet level or higher due to attack animations. That argument is just bias.

Sorry I had to say that. I don't want this thread to turn into a sh*tstorm due to my post so I'm actually gonna apologize. I know it sounds mean and that is kinda its intent, but I had to get my point across.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean youre not wrong Cal...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Someone shoud re-calc Tyranitar's feat

It doesn't feel right that his feat is below that of his pre-evolution

Mountain destroying earthquakes should get very high, but no one bothers to calc that, including myself (though I don't know how to do it).

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You mean Dis-whatever it's called, Gulty Gear and FFVll right? Isn't there extensive evidence for this tho? (I know FF and GG has the evidence for it) And just because they do it doesn't mean Pokemon can. You know his. Prove this animation is reliable to me because everytime we've seen Seismic Toss outside of the 3-D games, it has never done what you've shown. We make it clear that not all attack animations can be used. Hence why I haven't used the likes of Under Night Infinite Worths, Crescemon's apparent moon creation feat from Cyber Sleuth or how we can't use Blazblue Astral Heats etc.

What you said proves nothing and is simply trying to force a double standard without giving a single lick of context. You drecting that comment at me is not a smart move seeing as I know nothing of what verses you are talking about.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Under Night does use animations though, as does stuff like Fate

 

[Kepekley23]

Tyranitar's calc uses the world's most voluminous mountain to scale. If anything, that's a huge high end. And I think DontTalk corrected that calc.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Under Night does use animations though, as does stuff like Fate

If you actually read my comment, I mentioned Infinite Worths not anything else regarding the verse.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Iirc, some mountain in Hawaii is the most voluminous mountain. Mt. Fuji is just the biggest.

 

[Kepekley23]

Tyranitar's 7-A+ calc uses Mauna Loa, the world's most voluminous mountain. Mt. Fuji, which was the suggested mid-end, is considerably less voluminous.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Attack Animations are used for basically every JRPG setting ever, but this doesn't mean we can't be reasonable with the calcs in those either.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Dragon. Again, sorry if I'm being too rude or causing a sh*tstorm. And I'm sorry for directing that comment to you. I edited the call-out out because that was inappropriate of me.

I'm trying to force a double standard because it is a double standard. I'm calling a spade a spade. I was referring to Mugen Souls, Hyperdimension Neptunia, and FFVII, but those too (also, it's called Disgaea).

Blazblue isn't used because we know it can't be legit because the low tier is the one that's performing the feat. The god tier outright states that she can perform a feat far less than that with considerable effort.

I don't know much about UNiB's Infinite Worths, but Crescemon's moon creation can be considered an illusion. It's a matter of common sense. Which is why no one is saying Moonlight is a moon level feat for creating a moon, because it's clearly either an illusion or not a real moon but some energy copy. You can't argue illusion for Seismic Toss.

Pokemon is a JRPG first, anime second. Anime can definitely be used, as Masuda himself said that if a Pokemon can do it in the anime, they most likely can do it in the games, but still.

 

[Kepekley23]

I have a relatively major issue with Hyperdimension Neptunia, considering the description literally notes that the animation is a mere gag and doesn't actually happen, but I will take my gripes with it later in a thread.

Attack animations in Pokémon should not be used. Again, I'll bring the example of Moonlight for Volbeat and Umbreon, which shows a moon suddenly appearing. If taken literally, that'd mean they flipped the earth upside down. Which doesn't happen, it's just a fancy way of showing the attack.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Hyperdimension Neptunia has other planet-level attacks which are legit.

And just because a few animations aren't literal doesn't mean we should throw every single animation off the window, Kep.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No offense, dude, but that's a terrible example. Use common sense, not the most out-there animation that's not a Z-Move. Clearly that move isn't real. Are you going to argue that Tackle isn't portrayed correctly as well?

Again, no offense. I don't want to come off as a douche.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kep Cal literally just explained why we dont use Moonlight

 

[Kepekley23]

They shouldn't be taken literally unless the description states that's what is actually happening.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I mean, don't we use animations just to understand how strong is an attack, indipendently, from whatever that happened?

I can think of a couple of verse who are tier 5 thanks to destroying the planet and after the animation ends they're still back on the planet.

Seismic toss is nothing compared to this.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kep Which is the case here

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Bu Matt we aren't throwing out every animation. We are dealing with the fact that we are assuming go8ng by animation that every Pokemon literally drags their opponent in space in order to toss them down. This is a blatant contradiction to how it is portrayed in every facet of the series.

 

[NeoZex6399]

These are the descriptions of Seismic Toss:

Games	Description
Stad	A Fighting-type attack. Throws the target with enough force to flip the world upside down.
Stad2	A Fighting-type attack. Throws the target with enough force to flip the world.
GSC	The user's level equals damage HP.
RSE 'Colo.'XD	Inflicts damage identical to the user's level.
FRLG	A gravity-fed throw that causes damage matching the user's level.
DPPtHGSS PBR	The foe is thrown using the power of gravity. It inflicts damage equal to the user's level.
BWB2W2 XYORAS SMUSUM	The target is thrown using the power of gravity. It inflicts damage equal to the user's level.

 

[Kepekley23]

> Crescemon's moon creation can be considered an illusion. It's a matter of common sense. Which is why no one is saying Moonlight is a moon level feat for creating a moon, because it's clearly either an illusion or not a real moon but some energy copy.

It's "clearly" an ilusion? Show the proof. You can't throw baseless headcanosn around and act like it's all legitimate, Cal.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Weekly

The description literally says that it has enough force to flip the planet. I believe that would be higherthan Low 7-B would it not?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

And what's more legitimate? That they actually create a moon or rotate the planet? I know I calc'd that, but they were just joke calcs. Common sense isn't headcanon. Heck, the animation in Pokemon Battle Revolution shows that it's an energy creation.

 

[Kepekley23]

Weekly, the description doesn't say anything that would legitimize the animation. In fact, it just shows how it's not meant to be taken literally at all.

"Flipping the world upside down" is a High 5-A feat.

 

[RKGenki]

I was referring to Mugen Souls, Hyperdimension Neptunia, and FFVII, but those too (also, it's called Disgaea).

Just wanted to point out that HDN doesn't even use the attack animations for the planet level rating. It comes from a clear cut statement.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And what's more legitimate? That they actually create a moon or rotate the planet? I know I calc'd that, but they were just joke calcs. Common sense isn't headcanon. Heck, the animation in Pokemon Battle Revolution shows that it's an energy creation.

Maybe I am not understanding this correctly. What about ST makes them Sub Rel and Low 7-B if this is just an energy creation?

 

[Kepekley23]

> And what's more legitimate? That they actually create a moon or rotate the planet?

That they don't do that, because it's just a fancy way of showing off the attack. Again, if Seismic Toss is to be taken literally, Moonlight would need to be as well. You can't invent explanations.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Maybe I am not understanding this correctly. What about ST makes them Sub Rel and Low 7-B if this is just an energy creation?

He's talking about Moonlight being energy creation not Seismic Toss

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And once again, my argument is not against attack animations in general l. Not once did I mention other attack animations. My focus is purely Seismic Toss.