Classroom Of The Elite revamp - White Room Edition + Accepted calcs and scaling

[XxZetsuxX]

 

[Qawsedf234]

don't understand what you mean with this, I'm sorry ;-;

You need to provide a source like this profile or this profile. You have to give tbe chapter or at least the volume the material comes from in the source.

It's mainly to make the profile look good really

I don't see the point ngl

The intelligence and Standard tactic are different, Also to make the profile look good

The former can be turned with standard separator tabs and I don't agree with the latter.

I want to keep it as it is, Because i think it makes the profile look good

It makes it look bloated.

The reason for this is because they did the level 10 curriculum, While Takuya and Ichika did level 4 with level 10 being considered an extreme level of training that the 5th generation (Level 4) had no hope to achieve

That would need to be explained on the profile then. Such as (In a superior Class compared to X or Y). Currently there's no proper justification.

Ayanokouji wasn't at his absolute peak when he was sparring with Shiro or Yuki

The profile just has it thst they tanked multiple attacks. Which doesn't make sense as a justification if the other person was holding back. That justification would need to be removed.

It's not dodging an attack from someone you know, Ibuki went for a sneak attack against Takuya which he evaded and countered her without looking

Your passage has the character acknowledge that the person they're fighting is aware of both of them. Or at least that's how I'm reading it.

The 4.6 KJ AP comes from Takuya and Ichika being superior than Manabu who tanked a fall from the 2nd floor

While the speed feat comes from Ichika upscaling by a very good margin Housen who did a feat close to subsonic, And speed blitzed Kushida to the point she registered the sound of the punch after already being at the ground

As for Takuya, He perception (or reaction) blitzed Ichika

Yuki and Shiro have done the level 10 of the white room which is vastly superior than the level 4 which automatically makes them superior than Takuya and Ichika

As before, all those points need to be on the profile. You shouldn't just say that he's better without explaining why he's better.

They have their own intelligence feats that come from outside of the WR

The complaint was the separation between the two. There's no reason to have "Genius, Genius in combat". It would just be Genius.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

You need to provide a source like this profile or this profile. You have to give tbe chapter or at least the volume the material comes from in the source.

This will take me an eternity :c

That would need to be explained on the profile then. Such as (In a superior Class compared to X or Y). Currently there's no proper justification.

Ok

The profile just has it thst they tanked multiple attacks. Which doesn't make sense as a justification if the other person was holding back. That justification would need to be removed.

What i'm trying to say is that Koji wasn't at the peak of his kid self Key

The rules say to use the peak of the characters key or smth, Which Koji wasn't

Hence they why they are 4,6 Kj

As before, all those points need to be on the profile. You shouldn't just say that he's better without explaining why he's better.

Its on the WR page actually

The wr page says 4th generation are better than the 5th one

The complaint was the separation between the two. There's no reason to have "Genius, Genius in combat". It would just be Genius.

Oh, Ok

 

[Qawsedf234]

What i'm trying to say is that Koji wasn't at the peak of his kid self Key

So it should be removed from his justification. Since right now it doesn't make sense.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Its on the WR page actually

It would still need to be included in some fashion for their justifications.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

So it should be removed from his justification. Since right now it doesn't make sense.

Ok

It would still need to be included in some fashion for their justifications.

Alright

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Done

 

[XxZetsuxX]

What about the ap proposal?

 

[RoggerReggor]

it simply is not, they aren't resistant being read... They are still being read only that the other character is reading even further... Countering them. There's no resistance

Ichika did actually resist Suzune's analytical prediction, but somehow a large part of the fights in COTE happen off-screen, and there are only traces of her outpredicting her simply. But this should be a cool thing:

First of all, I will mention that I didn't plan to add Analytical Prediction this early on, I really wanted to do a whole separate thread. But here we go...


So, first of all, Suzune was using her predictions of using micromovements (small-scale movements to predict attacks) to predict attacks.

So, she was trying to do watch all the slight changes.

And she also succeeded, only that Ichika had simply resisted this quite easily, outpredicted her, and had used her right leg as a feint, and using her left leg as the real attack.

Narratively, Suzune admitted that she couldn't predict Amasawa.

(first page)

(the very next page)

She had literally lost her hope in even trying to predict her attacks and had forgotten about winning the match.

Another example would be this (where she ultimately ends up reading Suzune's thoughts).

COTE being more centered around battle intelligence, Suzune develops a strategy where she can counter Ichika's judo throws, but Ichika reads her, switches to a different fighting style, humiliates her, and tells her the thoughts of opponent, mentioning "Did you think this fight was mostly going to be judo?", demonstrating that she had picked on Suzune's entire battle strategy, and outpredicted her. Though this isn't about resistance to Analytical Prediction, I am sending this for the Analytical Prediction part only.

(All the above scans come from Year 2 arc, Volume 4).

Yee these are not proof, they've gained higher mental endurance and resistance towards pain and was able to adapt to it better than the rest... There's no proof they've used their willpower to endure and overcome something...

Willpower is based on you wanting something and being ambitious towards something and using that in a supernatural way, kids getting tortured over and over until they feel no pain for example and are fine afterwards has nothing to do with willpower unless specifically stated... They've gained, I'm assuming, superhuman endurance and mental fortitude... Not supernatural willpower

So, supernatural willpower is basically displaying extreme amounts of endurances and mental tolerance against adversities for some goal (where the character can show some willpower)?

I guess I will not have to debate about mental tolerance and endurance part, but about their will, there's a proof enough.

White Room allegedly manipulated its subjects to basically reach their own goals, that's why, despite them being tortured as a toddler or even being thrown around and beaten aggressively (which again is not a thing which a child can endure, a subject had to drop out, this would be the scan for both the "subject had to drop out" and their mental endurance). Despite them being tortured, the children continued to strive and live in the program, because they wanted to survive in the program and live up to the expectations of the instructors. Ayanokouji, the protagonist and also the subject of the program also mentioned that his only will was to survive until the end in the program, he even mentioned that if he couldn't live up to those expectations, "it was a denial of all they were", directly mentioning about how his own existence was at risk when getting denied out of the room (source).


All the scans above are from Volume 0.

With this, I hope this proves that they do have a will, which is the will to survive. As Zetsu mentioned, dropping out of the White Room is considered a phase of life where the trauma can ultimately kill a person, and no amount of counselling sessions can heal the affected.

Reggor is simply not him, don't let him deceive you

"Mahoraga help me!!" Ahh comment

"Kiyotaka help me!!" ahh moment as well.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Though this isn't about resistance to Analytical Prediction, I am sending this for the Analytical Prediction part only.

(All the above scans come from Year 2 arc, Volume 4).

Of course they are analytical predictions feats… that’s fine, resistance to it tho should get removed since she isn’t resisting being read, simply counter her by out predicting

So, supernatural willpower is basically displaying extreme amounts of endurances and mental tolerance against adversities for some goal (where the character can show some willpower)?

I guess I will not have to debate about mental tolerance and endurance part, but about their will, there's a proof enough.

White Room allegedly manipulated its subjects to basically reach their own goals, that's why, despite them being tortured as a toddler or even being thrown around and beaten aggressively (which again is not a thing which a child can endure, a subject had to drop out, this would be the scan for both the "subject had to drop out" and their mental endurance). Despite them being tortured, the children continued to strive and live in the program, because they wanted to survive in the program and live up to the expectations of the instructors. Ayanokouji, the protagonist and also the subject of the program also mentioned that his only will was to survive until the end in the program, he even mentioned that if he couldn't live up to those expectations, "it was a denial of all they were", directly mentioning about how his own existence was at risk when getting denied out of the room (source).


All the scans above are from Volume 0.

With this, I hope this proves that they do have a will, which is the will to survive. As Zetsu mentioned, dropping out of the White Room is considered a phase of life where the trauma can ultimately kill a person, and no amount of counselling sessions can heal the affected.

Them getting forcefully changed and feeling that getting hurt and tortured and stuff is natural, is proof that they didn’t have supernatural strong willpower… if they did, they would for example be nearly completely fine as if nothing happened, yet they fully changed and couldn’t escape from what they’ve become… that would just be having superhuman endurance for the years of adapting towards the pain and having to change to live like that… Having the will to just survive and using your willpower to actually overcome situations is different…

Not only isn’t there anything supernatural to it, but they didn’t get unaffected by the experiment, which is them not having enough willpower and getting broken to the point of adapting to it

Hopefully you understand what I’m saying, not only isn’t there proof of anything supernatural, there’s proof against them having strong willpower… via having to adapt towards it and having the experiment affect you

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Of course they are analytical predictions feats… that’s fine, resistance to it tho should get removed since she isn’t resisting being read, simply counter her by out predicting

I'm pretty sure this indirectly proves she can't read Ichika at all;

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The white room also legit gave them ginourmous amounts of pain

4 year old children needing to get up despite being injured, tired, after vomiting all over the place on the verge of losing conciousness due to the beatings with adults who have no problem in hospitalizing/killing children legit is supernatural willpower (Pain tolerance type)

4 year old children who have barely muscle mass or anything close to make them durable against adults and after that they still need to study with minimal breaks which also supports mental endurance

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I'm pretty sure this indirectly proves she can't read Ichika at all;

she could still read the attack, just not read her predictions so she just went in

 

[XxZetsuxX]

she could still read the attack, just not read her predictions so she just went in

She outright resisted here imo

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The white room also legit gave them ginourmous amounts of pain

4 year old children needing to get up despite being injured, tired, after vomiting all over the place on the verge of losing conciousness due to the beatings with adults who have no problem in hospitalizing/killing children legit is supernatural willpower (Pain tolerance type)

4 year old children who have barely muscle mass or anything close to make them durable against adults and after that they still need to study with minimal breaks which also supports mental endurance

Having high pain tolerance is not having strong willpower... It's the opposite, you have high pain tolerance because of your strong willpower... Not the other way around

4 year old children needing to get up despite being injured, tired, after vomiting all over the place on the verge of losing conciousness due to the beatings with adults who have no problem in hospitalizing/killing children legit is supernatural willpower (Pain tolerance type)

And I also don't understand at all how you view it as even supernatural...

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

She outright resisted here imo

she could still read the attack, just not read her predictions

Read the attack, the other read them so they switched and countered they're prediction... Both read each other but one has superior predictions

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Read the attack, the other read them so they switched and countered they're prediction... Both read each other but one has superior predictions

Having high pain tolerance is not having strong willpower... It's the opposite, you have high pain tolerance because of your strong willpower... Not the other way around

And I also don't understand at all how you view it as even supernatural...

I think it's best if we wait for Qawsed opinion, I don't think we will reach into an agreement XD

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I think it's best if we wait for Qawsed opinion, I don't think we will reach into an agreement XD

I mean sure but that's how it works

Every boxer do not having resistance to Analytical predictions just because they switched their move and countered their prediction

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I mean sure but that's how it works

Every boxer do not having resistance to Analytical predictions just because they switched their move and countered their prediction

 

[RoggerReggor]

Of course they are analytical predictions feats… that’s fine, resistance to it tho should get removed since she isn’t resisting being read, simply counter her by out predicting

Alright, but what according to you classifies as Analytical Prediction? Because the character here outpredicted her opponent, and at the same time, she saw the limits of her predictions, and somehow resisted her by using her own attacks as a feint and showing complete false intent there.

Them getting forcefully changed and feeling that getting hurt and tortured and stuff is natural, is proof that they didn’t have supernatural strong willpower… if they did, they would for example be nearly completely fine as if nothing happened, yet they fully changed and couldn’t escape from what they’ve become… that would just be having superhuman endurance for the years of adapting towards the pain and having to change to live like that… Having the will to just survive and using your willpower to actually overcome situations is different…


Not only isn’t there anything supernatural to it, but they didn’t get unaffected by the experiment, which is them not having enough willpower and getting broken to the point of adapting to it

Hopefully you understand what I’m saying, not only isn’t there proof of anything supernatural, there’s proof against them having strong willpower… via having to adapt towards it and having the experiment affect you

There actually is supernaturality, the training is considered above the human standards and is above what a human can naturally go to. But still, I see your point.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

There actually is supernaturality, the training is considered above the human standards and is above what a human can naturally go to. But still, I see your point.

yee I know, tho its superhuman endurance to pain, both mentally and physically I believe

but what according to you classifies as Analytical Prediction?

Someone who predicts/guesses your action based on stuff

Because the character here outpredicted her opponent, and at the same time, she saw the limits of her predictions, and somehow resisted her by using her own attacks as a feint and showing complete false intent there.

Yee that happens when you predict further/being a step ahead on someone... They won't be able to predict your attacks because you are predicting them predict your attack basically is higher prediction potency/skill

 

[RoggerReggor]

yee I know, tho its superhuman endurance to pain, both mentally and physically I believe

I think it can be removed then, once Qawsed verifies that. I still appreciate the fact that you were reading all through that lol.

Someone who predicts/guesses your action based on stuff

Thank you fr. And how does resistance be defined against it?

Yee that happens when you predict further/being a step ahead on someone... They won't be able to predict your attacks because you are predicting them predict your attack basically is higher prediction potency/skill

Alright.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

And how does resistance be defined against it?

you mean how do you get a resistance to it? If that the question... Then it's by you being unable to read their movements either by their body not being normal or by using some weird techniques that makes it so that you can't read their movements or vs random based movements, tho very much is based on context still

 

[XxZetsuxX]

you mean how do you get a resistance to it? If that the question... Then it's by you being unable to read their movements either by their body not being normal or by using some weird techniques that makes it so that you can't read their movements or vs random based movements, tho very much is based on context still

Ichika had her full attention on Takuya because she was afraid of him

It was also said she couldn't even blink around him because he could attack her during that split second

And yet she couldn't predict Takuya blitzing her, Does that count for Takuya at least?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Ichika had her full attention on Takuya because she was afraid of him

It was also said she couldn't even blink around him because he could attack her during that split second

And yet she couldn't predict Takuya blitzing her, Does that count for Takuya at least?

nah... That's just skill via attacking their blindspot with very good timing when they blink or drop their guard

These are things I can do against you... For example you think I'm about to punch you, And out of no where from your blind spot you get hit with a kick for not being able to actually see the movements, not able to even try reading the attack to begin with

That's just a speed feat, even if I predict your actions... That doesn't mean I'll be fast enough to dodge it

 

[XxZetsuxX]

nah... That's just skill via attacking their blindspot with very good timing when they blink or drop their guard

These are things I can do against you... For example you think I'm about to punch you, And out of no where from your blind spot you get hit with a kick for not being able to actually see the movements, not able to even try reading the attack to begin with

There's nothing about blind spots though?

Takuya was in a fair distance from Ichika, She could see all of his body

Btw, The scan 1 and 2 are not in the same scene btw

Scan 1 is just to show you she is highly alert on him

Scan 2 is when they are inside a hut (I don't remember what it's called but it's a smol house)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

There's nothing about blind spots though?

Takuya was in a fair distance from Ichika, She could see all of his body

Btw, The scan 1 and 2 are not in the same scene btw

Scan 1 is just to show you she is highly alert on him

Scan 2 is when they are inside a hut (I don't remember what what it's called but it's a smol house)

That's just a speed feat, even if I predict your actions... That doesn't mean I'll be fast enough to dodge it

Do you not understand how Analytical predictions works?... Think like this, you see a guy about a shot a gun (predicting the attack)... But your too slow to move out of the way, does that mean the gun has resistance to analytical predictions because it hit you?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Do you not understand how Analytical predictions works?... Think like this, you see a guy about a shot a gun (predicting the attack)... But your too slow to move out of the way, does that mean the gun has resistance to analytical predictions because it hit you?

No, The point is, Ichika was literally on full alert around him, Meaning she was watching him for any incoming attack and then Takuya blitzed her with her not being capable of reading his attack beforehand

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

then Takuya blitzed her with her not being capable of reading his attack beforehand

you literally are saying that he blitzed her... Which is how she wasn't able to read his attack...

Meaning he was just too fast for her to read...?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

you literally are saying that he blitzed her... Which is how she wasn't able to read his attack...

Meaning he was just too fast for her to read...?

:T

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Fine, I removed both ;-;

So, The rest fine now?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Can this be applied, Qawsed?

I fixed everything about what you said + Monkey's suggestion

 

[XxZetsuxX]

All of these scans are cropped LN passages. Those are fine, but for literature a source is what novel or volume said that feat appears in rather than a scan of the book itself.

Except this, This will take me a good while, Considering i don't even know how to do what you showed in the profiles of other characters

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So, The rest fine now?

Ayanokouji still has resistance towards analytical predictions... Otherwise in terms of powers and abilities, it seems fine

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Except this, This will take me a good while, Considering i don't even know how to do what you showed in the profiles of other characters

I'm assuming he means adding references...? Since I'm assuming the scans are in imgur, I think you could add the texts there if you don't know how to on the wiki (Chapter and volume and stuff)

On the wiki you just add the texts like this <ref>Vol 5 Chapter 3</ref>

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Ayanokouji still has resistance towards analytical predictions... Otherwise in terms of powers and abilities, it seems fine

Ayanokoji is actively not letting Tsukishiro reading his moves or smth

 

[XxZetsuxX]

He notes exactly how Tsukishiro had been trying to read him but that he won't let him analyze his true thoughts/intentions.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm assuming he means adding references...? Since I'm assuming the scans are in imgur, I think you could add the texts there if you don't know how to on the wiki (Chapter and volume and stuff)

On the wiki you just add the texts like this <ref>Vol 5 Chapter 3</ref>

I will have to do more than 200+ edits and have to remember which volumes and chapters it takes place ;c

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Ayanokoji is actively not letting Tsukishiro reading his moves or smth

yee that's him having much better predictions and skill... Similar to this but even more potent and advanced

They are still being read only that the other character is reading even further... Countering them. There's no resistance

He's reading him and making moves that will counter you trying to read him