Pokemon Revision Thread

[The_real_cal_howard]

By your logic, Fire Blast doesn't create a blast that looks like the kanji for big, because the move data doesn't say that it does.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

And once again, my argument is not against attack animations in general l. Not once did I mention other attack animations. My focus is purely Seismic Toss.

Then you're cherrypicking, which is just as bad.

 

[Kepekley23]

...Just a downright ''terrible'' example. The description states it unleashes a large flame blast. Now you're just cherrypicking.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also, someone needs to calc stuff like Rain Dance/Hail and Sunny Day, which make a horizon to horizon storm and can instantly disperse one respectively

 

[Dark649]

Sub-Relativistic is from this: Can catch and dodge thrown, flung, or hurled items. Pokémon throw things much heavier at .034c.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Now you are accusing me of shit? Cherrypicking? Aren't we the same site that says things should evaluate it on a case by case basis? Not all attack animations can be used, especially when they are contradicted. And we can't just suddenly throw out anime interpretations either as they can be used to support moves and as such can be used to deny them as well.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're saying I'm using a terrible example when your entire argument hinges on freaking Moonlight. The description doesn't talk about the shape, so clearly it taking a fancy shape is just an animation according to your logic.

How about unlike Earthquake being called an earthquake in the flavor text, or Blizzard being called a blizzard, Hurricane isn't called a hurricane.

 

[Kepekley23]

Seismic Toss's description states that it is a gravity-powered throw. Now we say that's enough to legitimize it throwing people to space.

This is akin to me saying a telekinetic attack which has an animation of pulling down the Moon from the sky to hit foes is literal just because the description states it is a "powerful psychic attack that can toss or pull objects"

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

"A blast of such despair that it can send destruction even into other dimensions."

Guess what this flavor text is for?

 

[Kaltias]

Would you guys please calm down?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I started off apologizing and the like, saying that I didn't want to cause a sh*tstorm. For several posts at that. Yet they escalated it anyway. I don't like being argumentative. In fact, I hate it. Yet it happened anyway. Now someone's gonna attribute it to Pokemon being hard to deal with even though it's the arguments and not the verse that's causing it to be a problem.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

1. Everyone calm down.

2. It's not just about animation and description, it's a mixture of both. Neither exists in a vacuum isolated from the other.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Moonlight restores HP depending on the weather and the time of the day, which proves that the pokémon doesn't actually summon the moon at any time.

Basically it's just a healing technique that's stronger under the moonlight.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Again, someone needs to calc stuff like Rain Dance/Hail and Sunny Day, which make a horizon to horizon storm and can instantly disperse one respectively

 

[Kepekley23]

> 2. It's not just about animation and description, it's a mixture of both. Neither exists in a vacuum isolated from the other.

Seismic Toss's animation: throws people into space

Seismic Toss's description: a throw fueled by gravity

Immense gap.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not really? IT could use gravity manipulation to throw people into space. How are these two contradictory?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Outside of 3-D games. Seismic Toss portrayals with descriptions on what is happening.

I would also note that nothing I posted before Cal's comment was anything confrontational, only expressing my disagreement without any accusations or anything. Yet, here I am being accused of cherrypicking for no reason simply because I am in disagreement. Suddenly I'm the bad guy here. You realize how insulting that is. I have a very good reason to be upset here as none of this was called for.

 

[Kepekley23]

Because the description doesn't actually support the animation at all. Besides, by power of gravity, they're just talking about actual gravity.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Machamp is one of the few Pokémon who learn Seismic Toss by level, which their first description on the pokédex is this:

"Using its heavy muscles, it throws powerful punches that can send the victim clear over the horizon."

~Red/Blue

It's not really relevant, but I think it's worth pointing out...

 

[Kepekley23]

@NeoZex

Considering Seismic Toss is a throw that uses both hands and the description specifies a punch, I think it's pretty clear that it isn't talking about that at all.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Not really? IT could use gravity manipulation to throw people into space. How are these two contradictory?

^^^

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Nothing about the description contradicts the animation. To say that the throw works "by the power of gravity" doesn't tell you absolutely anything about the reach or potency of the throw.

 

[Kepekley23]

Worth noting that both the manga and the anime ''consistently'' portray Seismic Toss's earth view as non literal.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Is no one going to address my post. And just to make sure. Does anyone have the Hariyama clip, otherwise this is what we have for Hariyama's.

Hariyama grabs the opponent, jumps into the air and does many front flips, then it goes down and slams the opponent into the ground, or Hariyama grabs the opponent, spins around and throws the opponent into the ground.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Now Cal, you have the clip proving that he actually tossed them out of the planet. If so I agree to this, if not my point stays the same.

 

[Kepekley23]

The very first Seismic Toss in the anime: https://fat.gfycat.com/GrossDigitalAzurewingedmagpie.webm

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Out of curiosity, what do you even want the speeds to be?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Likely would be MHS+ by being faster than the First Stages.

 

[Overlord775]

Why would we take secondary canon showings of sismic toss over primary canon ones ?

 

[Kepekley23]

I ran through Google, and found out that image is from this episode: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x55fp18

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Kep's correct there. I saw that clip and there's a reason I removed my comment.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Out of curiosity, what do you even want the speeds to be?

^ this was directed to you too, Kep.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Likely would be MHS+ by being faster than the First Stages.

The multiple lightspeed moves that they can dodge sya otherwise

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why would we take secondary canon showings of sismic toss over primary canon ones ?

Because we use secondary source to support feats. Why can we not do so to deny them as well?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Likely would be MHS+ by being faster than the First Stages.

The multiple lightspeed moves that they can dodge sya otherwise

The fact that that has yet to be decided or accepted as of this moment says otherwise.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dragon Then decide it. Why go through downgrading them if there is still a discussion to be had?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I can accept reacting to Flash being an outlier. It would require humans that can react at relativistic speeds.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Dragon Then decide it. Why go through downgrading them if there is still a discussion to be had?

I am sorry Weekly but did you not read this thread? We aren't downgrading them yet. We are currently going over feats. Calm down and don't rush me.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Can't the pokémon moves be used in multiple ways? Dark Void for example can be used as both a projectile and BFR.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Cal Multiple humans in Pokemon have MHS-Rel feats going by our current proflies, why would it be an outlier?