Pokemon God Tier actual Revisions

[Xerkser500]

Suppose that there are five Palkia avatars. One of them dies. The other four won't suddenly be aware of this nor will they suddenly gain memories exclusive to the other Palkia. Only avatars created after the dead Palkia will be aware of this.

Kep thats not what im saying, this isnt a Naruto Shadow Clone experience.

I never meant that the Palkia avatars would suddenly gain the memories and experiences of other Avatars. I meant that the avatars would gain the memories and minsets of the actual Palkia. Or in what Cal calls it, "Dialga/Palkia prime".

 

[DragonEmperor23]

how come Zekrom and Reshiram don't have an OG page for before the fusion?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

how come Zekrom and Reshiram don't have an OG page for before the fusion?

Kyurem

Also you mean fission.

 

[Kepekley23]

Sure, but Arceus is the one who needs to recreate their avatars. That wouldn't be Type 1.

 

[Xerkser500]

Sure, but Arceus is the one who needs to recreate their avatars. That wouldn't be Type 1.

I dont think the discussiin involving the Avatars was meant to try and support T1.

Unless was it??

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Kyurem was the base all along ''nani''

 

[Kirby71]

Wait, i can't believe no one mentioned that Pokemon Gold/Silver remake event.

Also, Dialga being affected by time corruptions means that Dialga is bound by linear time and has no acausality, also, this means Dialga is literally the timeline itself.

 

[Everything12]

I don't know if this is a feat or not but I think it's better to ask, in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky the story is that the collapse of Temporal Tower caused time to freeze and this lead to Dialga going insane and becoming Primal Dialga, does that count as a feat because a change in time lead to a change in Dialga.

 

[Elizhaa]

Maybe I sounded too harsh, but its just that Pokemon has been a constant back and forth regarding the CT and Arceus. And skipping the procedure to get an upgrade will backfire nearly with 99% of probability. Again, I apologize if I was rude to anyone.
If anyone could copy the arguments and justifications for everything that was added to the profiles, I'd appreciate it since I lack the time to look it up.

I will be honest as I never replied. I forgot to say, I did change the title and added others to refer it was not just a Speed Downgrade. The current OP sound rude and the past title was worse as Appeal to motive. This point is also an example of Appeal to Motive for the thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2525227#1. I also think the past OP title, the OP, and the reply 1 at least was rude to others who participated in what the discussion on what was to be added. It also did cause misinformation on the other thread about why the changes were made as shown here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2540840#129. I currently predict most are not going to read the This thread any and only the OP, not seeing the reasoning for additions.

The whole confusion, I believe, could have stopped if you contact me, the OP first.

Nevertheless, I forgive you, PaChi2.

 

[Dragopentling]

The thing with Giratina was trippy, too, regarding Type 8 immortality.

A bit off topic, but I need to get it off my mind: I will apologize and say that it's partially my fault for not being aware of what's right or wrong on any particular profile. I had been that one person previously assuming that any ability on a profile goes, due to having had opened versus threads shut down due to haxes and their potencies where I've never really gotten enough details, and thus it's like "well I guess if they have it, they win with it, and vice versa".

 

[Elizhaa]

The thing with Giratina was trippy, too, regarding Type 8 immortality.

That was way before the last CRT as it was already there on his page.

 

[Xerkser500]

Also, Dialga being affected by time corruptions means that Dialga is bound by linear time and has no acausality, also, this means Dialga is literally the timeline itself.

They aren't "time corruptions" in the sense of it messing with timelines, it's simply an un-natural process that corrupts Dialga and time itself.

It has nothing to do with being bound by time.

 

[Dragopentling]

That was way before the last CRT as it was already there on his page.

I knew that. I just wanted to bring that up. Also, read the edited comment again.

 

[Dragopentling]

They aren't "time corruptions" in the sense of it messing with timelines, it's simply an un-natural process that corrupts Dialga and time itself.

It has nothing to do with being bound by time.

This is probably the best explanation so far. Acausality doesn't prevent one from being affected by corruption of the concept of Time itself.

 

[Elizhaa]

They aren't "time corruptions" in the sense of it messing with timelines, it's simply an un-natural process that corrupts Dialga and time itself.
It has nothing to do with being bound by time.

This is probably the best explanation so far. Acausality doesn't prevent one from being affected by corruption of the concept of Time itself.

It would be Type 1 at best:

Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity:Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes, but remain just as vulnerable in the present and can be affected by normal Causality Manipulation and similar abilities.

• Examples: The Doctor (Doctor Who), Goku Black with Time Ring (Dragon Ball), Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear)

 

[Dragopentling]

At least Type 1.

I╠ ╠Âd╠Âe╠Âs╠Âp╠Âi╠Ât╠Âe╠ ╠Âi╠Ât╠ ╠Âw╠Âh╠Âe╠Ân╠ ╠Âp╠Âe╠Âo╠Âp╠Âl╠Âe╠ ╠Ât╠Âa╠Âl╠Âk╠ ╠Ât╠Âo╠ ╠Âu╠Âs╠ ╠Âa╠Âs╠ ╠Âi╠Âf╠ ╠ÂI╠Â'╠Âm╠ ╠Âs╠Âu╠Âp╠Âp╠Âo╠Âs╠Âe╠Âd╠ ╠Ât╠Âo╠ ╠Âl╠Âi╠Âs╠Ât╠Âe╠Ân╠Â,╠ ╠Ây╠Âe╠Ât╠ ╠Âb╠Âa╠Âr╠Âe╠Âl╠Ây╠ ╠Âl╠Âi╠Âs╠Ât╠Âe╠Ân╠ ╠Ât╠Âo╠ ╠Âm╠Ây╠ ╠Âo╠Âw╠Ân╠ ╠Âq╠Âu╠Âe╠Âs╠Ât╠Âi╠Âo╠Ân╠Âs╠Â.╠Â

 

[Xerkser500]

Honestly, the literal only evidence that Mystery Dungeon gives to go against Acasuality is when Dialga was almost destroyed with the timeline but was saved by Arceus.

And people need to understand something here.

Dialga in those moments was still Primal Dialga. He wasn't his regular self at that point, he was still Primal DIalga, whose control and manipulation over time is complete and utter crap compared to Normal Dialga. That entire scene, at best, only proves Primal Dialga is bound by time and given the entire existence of the form in general, this is very very reasonable. Self explanatory actually.

Not to mention, on top of still being Primal Dialga, he was also very weakened because before the changes in time, he was literally just defeated by the combined assault of Celebi, Dusknoir and Grovyle.

So the "evidence" in general is just....point blank flawed.

 

[Elizhaa]

At least Type 1.
I╠ ╠Âd╠Âe╠Âs╠Âp╠Âi╠Ât╠Âe╠ ╠Âi╠Ât╠ ╠Âw╠Âh╠Âe╠Ân╠ ╠Âp╠Âe╠Âo╠Âp╠Âl╠Âe╠ ╠Ât╠Âa╠Âl╠Âk╠ ╠Ât╠Âo╠ ╠Âu╠Âs╠ ╠Âa╠Âs╠ ╠Âi╠Âf╠ ╠ÂI╠Â'╠Âm╠ ╠Âs╠Âu╠Âp╠Âp╠Âo╠Âs╠Âe╠Âd╠ ╠Ât╠Âo╠ ╠Âl╠Âi╠Âs╠Ât╠Âe╠Ân╠Â,╠ ╠Ây╠Âe╠Ât╠ ╠Âb╠Âa╠Âr╠Âe╠Âl╠Ây╠ ╠Âl╠Âi╠Âs╠Ât╠Âe╠Ân╠ ╠Ât╠Âo╠ ╠Âm╠Ây╠ ╠Âo╠Âw╠Ân╠ ╠Âq╠Âu╠Âe╠Âs╠Ât╠Âi╠Âo╠Ân╠Âs╠Â.╠Â

About Type 1 some might think they don't deserve it. Well, about the other part, it is best to quote a person's response and ask for a reply.

 

[Dragopentling]

I'm gonna be that one guy to say that I hated the primal Dialga bit (at least it made good storywriting material for the game, I guess.) He's weak as shit compared to his normal true self. Like probably Low 2-C at best. I hope the Primal Dialga thing wasn't a prime catalyst for questioning the actual Dia's abilities by itself.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Inb4 Primal makes the Creation Trio weaker instead of how it made the Weather Trio stronger

 

[Xerkser500]

Lets stay on topic.

Without the MD "evidence", is there anything else that actually goes against Acasuality?

 

[Everything12]

Inb4 Primal makes the Creation Trio weaker instead of how it made the Weather Trio stronger

Primal Dialga is known as Dark Dialga in Japan, while the Primal Wether duo is still Primal in Japan.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I c

 

[Dragopentling]

Instead if you count any PIS from the anime (not that I remember all of them), then no, nothing contradicting Time Doge's Acasuality unless Nedge wants more.

At least not that I know of yet.

 

[Executor_N0]

Honestly, the literal only evidence that Mystery Dungeon gives to go against Acasuality is when Dialga was almost destroyed with the timeline but was saved by Arceus. . . .

So what about this: Everyone says the reasons to Dialga have acausality, then the reasons for why he don't have acausality.


Then by this, we can really see what is the better.

 

[Elizhaa]

First, we need to make a distinction which Acausality Type is being discussed, is it type 4 or 1 because I believe Type 4 was rejected and we are discussing Type 1?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Still believe there should only be two types of acasuality. And that idea didn't originate from me.

 

[PaChi2]

For the record, I dont even know what's being discussed any more.

 

[Xerkser500]

So what about this: Everyone says the reasons to Dialga have acausality, then the reasons for why he don't have acausality.

Then by this, we can really see what is the better.

I thought MD and, like, one other thing were the only things against it. But yeah Im down with that.

Also, yeah im with Nedge. IDK what kind of Acasulity is even being sugggested for these guys specifically.

 

[Executor_N0]

To be fair I think that the biggest argument against this...is the fact that so far I have not understood why Dialga should have acausality. To say the argument in favor of it would greatly facilitate the analysis of why Dialga should have acausalty, so ... what is the reason?

 

[Elizhaa]

To be honest, I think the Opening Statement should clarify what is accepted, rejected and left to be discussed because we can end up in situations where we have no idea what is left to be discussed.

 

[Elizhaa]

Here what were really accepted in the other thread:

Others: regarding missing abilities:

Acausality (Type 4) for Arceus, Lake Trio and Creation Trio

Self-Sustenence (Types 1, 2 and 3) for Arceus, LT and CT

Abstract Existence (Type 1) for Arceus and CT

Abstract Existence (Type 3) for LT

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3) for Arceus and CT

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 4) for LT

Avatar Creation for Arceus, LT and CT

About Non-Physical Interaction, this is very normal in the Pokémon Multiverse

We even got the result accepted by admins only these below were rejected.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3) for CT


Conceptual Manipulation (Type 4) for LT

 

[Xerkser500]

If Dialga had Acasuality listed, that means past threads should have reasons why he had it in the first place.

Im still kinda new here, so I don't know if such threads for it existed. Do they?

 

[DMB_1]

Wait, why does the Ct have Conceptual manipulation though?

 

[Elizhaa]

From the other thread where Acausility change were rejected. (it had overlook evidence here):

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1900154#2

Causality Manipulation & Acausality: "Distorting natural law" needs to be put into context here. The CT using their powers to distort the world is not causality manipulation. It is just Space, Time, and Antimatter manipulation, respectively. Causality or causal progression is never broken, and Arceus is directly subject to causality, as shown by the entire plot of Arceus and the Jewel of Life.

• I don't know where you got "natural" law from, because the profiles state causal law. That comes from those textdumps that were released on the JP website. I had Reppu translate it for me for extra measure. Acausality comes from a number of things. Arceus lolnope'ing the events of PMD2, whatever's on Giratina's profile about it, every one of them no-selling the side effects to their causal law distorting basic attacks.

 

[Executor_N0]

Giratina was because of the movie, for some reason there's something in the past that said that Giratina is acausal in Origin Form but not in the other form, because it was affected by the Time Lop only when it need to go outside the Distortion World.

 

[Elizhaa]

Wait, why does the Ct have Conceptual manipulation though?

It was clarified here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2509420

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Nedge

All of that was absolutely not accepted, definitely not the Concept manip.

 

[DMB_1]

You mean because of the whole "shaping the world" thing?

I disagree. they are just creating the multiverse. Arceus already created these concepts.

 

[Xerkser500]

Other than what that bottom bullet point says about the casulity manip and acasuality, that entire thing's basis for disagreeing with it is using the PIS-filled Jewel of Life movie, and as I already pointed out above, even the movie didnt make that to be the case.

Arceus and the trio were absolutely never subjected to the time changes after the event in the past. Once returning to the future, everything from before was still the exact same. It was only when bloodlusted Arceus himself realized what happened in the past from Ash's friendship BS that the changes in time began to happen, proving or heavily suggesting the changes happened because Arceus selectively allowed it.