Pokemon God Tier actual Revisions

[Executor_N0]

I mean, with Solaris a similar thing happened, but I don't really know.

Wrong. It's said that even if Solaris was defeated in the present, he would still exist in all the other instants of time. It's necessary to defeat Solaris in all of the past, presente and future at once to truly destroy Solaris (People forget the entire fight between Solaris end the Hedgehogs that's is in all of the time and only talk about the end of the battle when Elise destroy the flame of Solaris, when all the other time moments of Solaris already has been destroyed).

It's not equal to a scene of someone like Dialga and others begin destroyed because of a time paradox.

 

[DMB_1]

Oh. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Executor_N0]

Anyway, It's still strange to Dialga begin destroyed by a time paradox, when Dialga saved someone from a time paradox. So Dialga can trun someone immune to time paradox, but not himself ?

 

[Everything12]

I was curious about the above as well so I rewatched the ending of the Special Episode to see if that was explained and I noticed something. The quote eveyone is talking about goes 'I DON'T HAVE THE POWER NECESSARY TO STOP YOU FROM DISAPPEARING.' The you being mentioned is Celebi, Grovyle, and Dusknoir, and the one talking is Dialga, their doesn't seem to be any mention of Dialga disappearing because of the paradox so the time paradox might not have effected Dialga, though why he couldn't save them when he could save the main character from disappearing is still something I don't understand.

 

[Kepekley23]

Uh, what? Dialga is the first one who starts to get affected by the paradox. Celebi asks what is happening to Dialga and then they notice that the same thing is happening to them, to which Celebi deduces that history is getting distorted.

 

[Xerkser500]

Again, Dialga is never stated nor implied anywhere to be omnipresent through the timeline. He is only omnipresent inside his own dimension.

Im sorry, but no. This is not remotely true.

People seem to be ignoring the fact that Sheena was able to contact Dialga, from the past, while Dialga's physical self was unconscious during the CT vs Arceus fight asking it to send them further into the past and Dialga does so without being physically present in the past. And when they successfully give the Jewel of Life back to Arceus, Dialga immediately becomes aware of this and sends them back to their own time.

And from those links that Nedge uploaded from that user TheMightyRegulator, this is even noted and explained to be the case and those blogs im assuming have been accepted since day 1?

Dialga not being omnipresent throughout time is complete and utter bullshit to be blatant.

 

[Xerkser500]

I was curious about the above as well so I rewatched the ending of the Special Episode to see if that was explained and I noticed something. The quote eveyone is talking about goes 'I DON'T HAVE THE POWER NECESSARY TO STOP YOU FROM DISAPPEARING.' The you being mentioned is Celebi, Grovyle, and Dusknoir, and the one talking is Dialga, their doesn't seem to be any mention of Dialga disappearing because of the paradox so the time paradox might not have effected Dialga, though why he couldn't save them when he could save the main character from disappearing is still something I don't understand.

Because Dialga was still Primal Dialga, a much much weaker version of it. Dialga did bring back the player from being erased from existence, but when he was normal Dialga, not Primal.

This also seems to be getting ignored too.

 

[Everything12]

Question, because I like most people am confused by the mechanics of time travel, if Dialga was immune to time paradoxes how would fixing temporal tower in the past effect Primal Dialga in the dark future if it was immune to paradoxes?

 

[Kepekley23]

Jewel of Life is the same movie that has Arceus be affected by causality. Don't cherrypick.

 

[Xerkser500]

Jewel of Life is the same movie that has Arceus be affected by causality. Don't cherrypick.

Actively affected and this very much implied as soon as Ash and co. come back from the past.

Arceus was still rampaging and only selectively chose to allow changes in time to happen because Ash pulled a "power of friendship" BS moment.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, the fact that Dialga is aware of the fact that Sheena and the others have succeeded actually means he is bound by causality. Otherwise the changes would have had zero effect on him. Derp.

 

[Xerkser500]

Also, the fact that Dialga is aware of the fact that Sheena and the others have succeeded actually means he is bound by causality. Otherwise the changes would have had zero effect on him. Derp.

But. The changes did have 0 effect on him.

The CT are still knocked out, damaged and unconscious by Arceus, by the time they get back. Kinda rules out being effected when he clearly wasnt. Not until Arceus saw Ash say "Arceus stop!", he goes "Okay" and changes occur.

Another argument besides PIS.

 

[Kepekley23]

> Dialga/Arceus remembers the changes and is clearly affected by them.

> Not affected.

Pick one.

 

[Xerkser500]

> Dialga/Arceus remembers the changes and is clearly affected by them.

Because they selectively chose to be effected by them.

 

[Kepekley23]

Scans of that statement?

 

[Xerkser500]

How about the entire scene we are talking about?

If they didn't selectively allow changes in time to happen, Arceus wouldnt have continued rampaging and the CT wouldnt have been damaged and knocked unconscious by the time they came back to the Future. They would've been the exact opposite.

Unless you can provide a good explanation for this, the scene is evidence in itself.

 

[SomebodyData]

So you're saying they have the power to selectively be affected by time changes, but normally are acasual? Is that right?

 

[Kepekley23]

Arceus remembered as soon as he saw Ash. He didn't activate or selectively choose anything.

 

[Xerkser500]

Arceus remembered as soon as he saw Ash. He didn't activate or selectively choose anything.

Realizing all of the past events that transpired with Ash and co. is what implies it.

Damos made up for the "betrayal" by returning the jewel and Ash and co.'s involvement. Arceus realizes that and then all of a sudden changes in time happen?

Why wouldnt Arceus selectively choose for those changes to happen when he no longer has a reason to be pissed?

 

[Kepekley23]

Because he wasn't portrayed as Acausal in the movie and stops his attack as soon as he sees Ash.

 

[Xerkser500]

And as soon as he realizes what happened, the attack stops and time begins to change.

Either thats one hell of a coincidence, or Arceus chose to allow those changes to happen. And everything in that scene points to the latter.

 

[Kepekley23]

Everything as in...?

 

[Xerkser500]

So you're saying they have the power to selectively be affected by time changes, but normally are acasual? Is that right?

Sorry. To answer this, yes. The entire scene with Ash and co's re-arrival in the future either proves or strongly implies it to be the case more than any other explanation.

Arceus and the trio are clearly shown not to be the effected by the time changes. Why? Because Arceus is still pissed and rampaging, Michiena Town is still damaged, Team Rocket still had the present Jewel of Life in their possession, the CT are all damaged and knocked unconscious, etc. Literally none of this would be the case if they were effected by history being changed, it would have all been reverted the instant Ash and co. came back.

But yet when Ash calls out to Arceus, the latter realizing the said past events, changes in time suddenly start to happen? I'd very much call that Arceus selectively allowing it since he no longer has any reason to destroy mankind, he makes up with Damos in the past and befriends Ash.

What other explanation takes precedence over this?

 

[Kepekley23]

How can Arceus remember the changes before he allows them, actually?

 

[Everything12]

This talk about time travel, acasualty, and paradox's are confusing me.


So if Arceus is acasual then when Ash returns to the present after saving Arceus in the past and the Arceus in the present is completely unchanged by the events in the past and doesn't have any memory of them, then what would happen to the Arceus of the past? Would a new timeline where the events of the altered past happen come into existence separate from the original timeline? Would the Arceus of the altered past cease to exist/never existed because the present Arceus is unaffected by the altered past? What would happen? Would it be a case of you can't change the events of the past when time travelling and everything that did happen would always happen, even with Ash and the gang now in the past thus making it impossible for changes not to happen because of the Butterfly (or Butterfree) Effect?


Keep in mind that this is a hypothetical situation where Dialga and Arceus are acasual and thus both uneffeced by the laws of time, so the time travel caused by Dialga should also be a acasual event so it can't have always have and always will happen, so Ash and he gang must be new additions to the past so they must cause changed because of the Butterfly (Butterfree) Effect and thus those changes will then effect and change Arceus in the past.

 

[Dragopentling]

It's really PIS....I never liked how the anime fails to properly explain things.

P.S. still related to the thread, but kinda spurred by the comments from a certain someone on YT who doesn't agree that Cthulhu is inferior to Giratina...smh

 

[PaChi2]

Le bump

 

[DMB_1]

By the way, what's Giratina's Type 8 Immortality based on?

 

[PaChi2]

Antimatter? (Thinks)

 

[DMB_1]

It's weird because it's also stated that if Giratina dies, the Distortion World dies as well.

 

[DMB_1]

Ok. According to Cal, Giratina has Immortality reliant on the Distotsion World.

The problem, is that the profile states that if Giratina dies, the Distortion World dieswith him, and from what I can understand, even Antimatter itself.

 

[Executor_N0]

I believe the idea is that a manifestation of Giratina be destroyed, the original existence of Giratina (which would be the Distortion World itself) would still be able to create more physical bodies.


Anyway, the original reason that is kept is based on the manga. In the manga some characters are attacked by Giratina and have their bodies sent to the Distortion World, somehow it was interpreted that these people for having connections with the Distortion World they had been saved by the world instead of being killed, although it seems to be clear that they were simply sent to the Distorted World, as if it were a BFR that can be done via physical contact.

Anyway, the subject about Giratina and the Distorted World is very contradictory. Cyrus was the one who explained that Giratina and the Distorted World were one, and so if Giratina died, the Distorted World would also be.

However there are those who argue that Giratina is immortal because of the Distorted World, since in case the trainer does not capture Giratina, the world will still exist and in the future Giratina would be seen again. Whoever defends this idea is based on a speech by Cynthia that claims that Cyrus was lying because no Pokémon could destroy the world in the way Cyrus was claiming.

 

[DMB_1]

So what should we do?

 

[Kepekley23]

@EX

• Cynthia: "Don't believe his lies. It's not possible that a Pokemon can make the world disappear."

Cynthia is...well, wrong.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Clearly all universal statements in Pokémon are hyperboles and Cynthia's word should be followed.

 

[Zeifyl]

Clearly all universal statements in Pokémon are hyperboles and Cynthia's word should be followed.

Yes, especially the one that has an eye witness

 

[Elizhaa]

Well, Cynthia is wrong

 

[DMB_1]

Another thing: the CT's type 4 immortality should be removed, as they were there before the Type 4 immortality revisions.

In other words, they have it only because "they are gods".

 

[Elizhaa]

Another thing: the CT's type 4 immortality should be removed, as they were there before the Type 4 immortality revisions.
In other words, they have it only because "they are gods".

The Type 4 Immortalities were all removed. After Pachi asked, I did revert all the edits so the changes are removed. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Dialga?oldid=3780913

 

[DMB_1]

They were supposed to be removed even before this or the other CTR. In fact, I think it was removed from Arceus, but not from them (for some reason).