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One sword vs Every Sword: Ikki vs Gilgamesh

Yes Earl, let's ignore every single time that Gilgamesh sees through people, up to and even guessing how many mental schematics Shirou has ready in his head to Trace weapons, and lets also assume he'd go through the trouble of getting information on Assassin, and that he's not so absurdly perceptive and one of the more intelligent beings in the entire Nasuverse. Which we have said many times already.

Need I remind you that he's only surprised in the anime? Check the VN, go right ahead, is uploaded in the internet on lparchives. Gilgamesh remains as nonchalantly calm when Berserker revives one last time. Not to mention what Berserker pulled was nothing short of a miracle. Its comparable to someone 30 minutes brain dead somehow waking up and socking you in the head with full strength when that's biologically impossible, and not even that surprised him. And I hope you realize you admit he just needs to fire as many weapons as he can, yet that isn't what he does when he actually uses strategy.. meaning he's actually thinking, which you keep denying futilily.

No Earl, you deciding that Gilgamesh using tactics, which has happened many more times than it has not, is just plot its a biased and unfounded. Don't use plot as a hollow justification when Gilgamesh has adapted rather than been prideful stupid more times than not when he faced something that didn't immediately died, that's as fallacious as you get.
 
sigh

Whatever, 1000 swords it is? Ikki senses danger then goes for trackless step to end the game. Should anything more dangerous come up, Ikki just ittou's the match.
 
For all his supposedly "being able to read the situation", Gil sure failed to do so with Shirou himself. Seems rather selective about "what he can see through". Isn't the reason Gil can deal with servants because he knows the origins of their noble phantasms and such, but for someone from modern era or someone who doesn't use a noble phantasm that's an "aquired-via-external-means-or-via-divinity" weapon, that doesn't work?

Also how does he lose an airborne battle if he supposedly has such perfect insight? Gil is a huge cluster of inconsistency to the point where using the term "Plot-induced Stupidity" sounds more and more like a cop-out.
 
>Make a thread

>Type stuff like "Ikki senses danger then goes for trackless step to end the game. Should anything more dangerous come up, Ikki just ittou's the match"
 
Gil never failed to read the situation with Shirou though? He knew exactly what was up but Shirou completely hard countered him not only in powersets but in what he is. Note how he always knew what he needed to do to win but was refusing due to his pride in having to resort to it against something he absolutely abhors. His mentality had also deteriorated due to 10 years in what he considers cancer and it took dozens of different factors going against him to set up Shirou's win in the route and Nasu still called it PIS that he lost. So saying Gil loses to PIS is most certainly not a cop-out.
 
Considering that Diarmuid needed to be retroactively given in FGO a skill that nulls Saber's Instinct, otherwise his spear gambit would have never worked in the first place, I think is fare to say that is more Urobochi's fault.

And Gil being perfectly able to read the situation happens far, far, far more times than him being surprised. You are free to prove otherwise.
 
You are talking specifically of an artifact Gilgamesh doesn't possess, lost to history and comparable to Ea.

Not to mention, he was perfectly able to recognize what Saber had done. The VN itself makes it clear Ea can't stop turning by this point and Gilgamesh can't jump back. He knew he was dead at that second, but he couldn't do anything about it.
 
So the frame of time he takes to realize his position can wildly vary as well then from predicting the whole battle from beginning to end, including predicting himself to become a jobber, yet still go through the loss from beginning to end with a smug expression, down to the situation where he "only realizes the mistake he did too late"? Interesting.

Also in regards to Ikki, his weapon comes from the soul and his abilities come from neither an external source like a relic, nor is it the representation of some mythological deed that grants him power, so would Gil's analysis even work on Ikki with that in mind? Also Ikki's "Bladesteal" (actually just steals techniques) might trigger Gil quite a bit into playing the FAKER card.
 
The fact that you keep ignoring that he was caught by surprise by something equal to Ea astounds me.

I am seriously doubting if you know literally anything about Gilgamesh. He could tell how many mental schematics Shirou had ready to trace in his head. He could tell Illya was the Grail and Sakura was a pseudo grail at a glance. He could tell Kotomine's mental insecurities without issue, and see past Caster's magic that has nothing to do with any representation of any mythological deed. His info analysis is all encompassing in general, and his intelligence is among the top in the entire Nasuverse. Like Blank already said, a lot went into Gil getting careless with Saber who he was obsessed with and Shirou, it is no everyday ocurrence.
 
What's the excuse for Sakura and the Shadow then? He "saw through her" fine, but in regards to his loss, what's the "excuse" this time? He is neither irritated at her like with Shirou/Archer, nor obsessed with her like with Saber. And finally, that scene was not written by Urobuchi or anyone else other than Nasu himself either. So what is it?
 
He underestimated how quick she could regen since he had already withstood the mud and Angra Mainyu once, so the mere thought of thinking she could be a danger went against his pride about as much as using Ea on UBW.
 
And still using his fsn incarnation when blank already said that his mentality deteriorated in 10 years.
 
Sounds convenient... when it's F/SN it doesn't count because "10 years mentality detoriation". When it's instances of Gil actually being at full capacity then it's "doesn't count because AU/different author".
 
Neo, you can shove the attitude where anyone cares about it. You even thougth Gilgamesh's info analysis was only about NPs, don't go acting like we interpret him however we damn like when you don't even seem to actually know the full context of things.
 
Anyway as it's currently a stomp, imma restrict Ittou Rasetsu for Ikki (so no blitz).

And btw just gonna say Neo makes the most sense here. I mean if he's failed more than he has succeeded then there is a serious problem with "he knows exactly what to do".
 
Gilgamesh didnt show up only in FSN. And the reason why he lost in FSN is mostly by pis and cis it was even acknowledge by the nasu.

He was serious in Extra CCC, FSF, Extella and even FGO.
 
I mean every time a flaw gets pointed out the answer is "it doesn't count", despite that being the "main canon", and somehow the only "precise" sources are spin-off games and then you continue to call that "context".

Normally that's what we call "retcon", btw.

It's pretty damn damning that none of the things I learned from playing F/SN or watching F/0 have any relevance to this battle, it seems, because "MUH 10 years detoriation".
 
His knowledge of Gil seems a bit nebulous though, if he thinks his Info Analysis only works on NPs.

Like, Gil knows about Kojirou. He's just a whatever dude that can pretty much pull a miracle with hi s sword. You don't see Gil doing stupid things around him for a rage boner, the author even acknowledges Gil knows better than getting close, so I have no clue why Gilgamesh would get stupid prideful like against Shirou because of Ikki's Bladesteal.
 
Those are all still myths in a way. Gil didn't show any signs of knowing that UBW could hard-counter his GOB. If there is and it really was Gil "running away from reality", prove it.
 
It has literally nothing to do with him knowing it can hard counter him, is him never being able to face and accept that it can hard counter him until he's pushed so far back, Shirou can actually kill him.

This very same Gil pulls back in an instant from Saber, the same one he plays with in close range in Fate route, because he can tell she's way more powerful under Rin. Still doesn't wanna go all out on Shirou. It is a pride thing, it has always been.

And it doesn't change the many other appearences Gil has where he is not this dumb, and they are way more numerous.
 
On the topic about Gil not being "all seeing", he actually is shown to consistently have more good info analysis with the restricted SNI than anti feats in just F/sn itself, hilariously enough. The issue arises when he loses and it takes the story and characters bending over backwards to have him lose, which the author calls out himself, being far more memorable as him losing is such a big deal, both in verse and narratively. Half of his insight "failing" isn't even it failing but him not having a way out.
 
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