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One sword vs Every Sword: Ikki vs Gilgamesh
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
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^^^ Yup. It's how he knew exactly how Shirou's magecraft worked the moment he saw it, how he knew Berserker's identity despite having never met him before their fight, how he knew Kirei's true nature, how he knew Saber was a virgin, how he knew that Archer was actually Shirou, how he knew Illya was the Lesser Grail and how Sakura was a bastardized version of one.
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- #83
Solacis said:
About the info analysis, yes but that is overall info. Example it will tell him that ikki is just about to get laid with stella, so that he's currently a virgin
John985
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Q: Gilgamesh has no skills in swordsmanship, would Assassin win if Gilgamesh is caught in the range of Tsubame Gaeshi?
A: Most likely, he will just defend with his armour, or take out some really unfair defensive armament that protects against Multidimensional Refraction Phenomenon, from the Gate of Babylon. However, Gilgamesh is capable of accurately assessing his opponents' abilities, so he would not consider having a battle of swordsmanship with Assassin the first place.
>And if it did why did he not expect berzerker to do that well?
Your talking about Lancelot? Well that was normal gil, but this is bloodlust Gil.
A: Most likely, he will just defend with his armour, or take out some really unfair defensive armament that protects against Multidimensional Refraction Phenomenon, from the Gate of Babylon. However, Gilgamesh is capable of accurately assessing his opponents' abilities, so he would not consider having a battle of swordsmanship with Assassin the first place.
>And if it did why did he not expect berzerker to do that well?
Your talking about Lancelot? Well that was normal gil, but this is bloodlust Gil.
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- #85
Wut? No he's not. If he were, he'd lol EA from the start.John985 said:
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This is Gilgamesh whose goal is to kill his opponent, not play with him. He might not use Ea immediately, but he definitely is going to use hundreds of NPs and probably take Merodach into his own hands and use some 6-C attacks.
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- #88
We were talking "would gil win if this were bloodlusted". The answer was no cus ikki would still blitz EA.
This is still normal gil.
This is still normal gil.
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- #90
This is not serious nor "wanting to kill" Gil. The "wanting to kill" is for people like Ikki for example who would never deal the finishing blow, it just says "he will kill if needed". Same here, Gil will kill if needed, but his usual strategies will take place, even if said strategies are literally chatting with his opponent.
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SBA states that characters are willing to kill. With this in mind he will use strategies which allow him to kill his opponent, taking into consideration his opponent's abilities, which we've seen him do.
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- #92
Yes "willing to kill", not "bloodlusted". SBA also states "the usual strategies will be in play". So no "willing to kill" means that "if need be he will land the finishing blow even if he otherwise wouldn't". This is in character Gil.
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The only thing that "willing to kill" means is basically Batman not doing something like saving Joker from falling to his death.
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- #94
^^ Pretty much.NeoSuperior said:
There are many people in fiction, who would just beat their opponent then leave them like that, not "kill" them. SBA says that in that moment after he beats this opponent "he'll just stab him for the kill", and not hold back due to his morale or ideology preventing him from killing people.
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Yes, the usual strategies. A thousand noble phantasms against Cu, specific rank of weapons against Heracles and so on. Not your "he only used a few weapons here". He adapts to his opponent ffs, he's not an idiot.
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- #96
>Usual strategies
Can you quote more than 3 times when Gil spammed over 1000 noble phantasms right off the bat?
And evena against Heracles he didn't use that many.
Can you quote more than 3 times when Gil spammed over 1000 noble phantasms right off the bat?
And evena against Heracles he didn't use that many.
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It depends. Gilgamesh tries to make a point of directly matching any "Fakers" equally to make his point that the original is better than any mimicry, leaving a fatal opening. Ikki, while he doesn't copy weapons, does copy others' techniques though. Aside from his "secret sword" series, all his techniques are stolen from others, at most optimized for his own body.
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- #98
NeoSuperior said:
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Can you present me with an instance where thousand noble phantasms were needed except against Cu who has protection against projectiles? Against Heracles he didn't need that many because they didn't miss and each weapon was able to instakill him.
That's the whole point of adapting.
That's the whole point of adapting.
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- #100
Against berzerker. He didn't know more would be needed.
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Lancelot?
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- #102
Yep.
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Where was that stated? His attacks were more for his entertainment and to test Lancelot's ability. After he endured the second volley and threw weapons at Gilgamesh, that's when Gilgamesh became furious and serious, further opening GoB and Lancelot wouldn't have been able to survive the third volley.
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- #104
1st volley = 2
2nd volley =i think around 10 or so can't remember. Around that number
3rd volley = About 40.
So where is the thousand? Whether Lancelot would survive or not is not for you to decide, it was never stated he couldn't, and Gil did mess up twice in judging his opponent's capabilities.
2nd volley =i think around 10 or so can't remember. Around that number
3rd volley = About 40.
So where is the thousand? Whether Lancelot would survive or not is not for you to decide, it was never stated he couldn't, and Gil did mess up twice in judging his opponent's capabilities.
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- #106
He really wasn't doing it to have fun. He was going for the kill.
"Who gave you permission to look upon me? May your death provide me some entertainment"
It'd be different if it were like:
"Let's see how much you can last"
So here we have Gil, wanting to kill, but not going for lol 1000 swords.
"Who gave you permission to look upon me? May your death provide me some entertainment"
It'd be different if it were like:
"Let's see how much you can last"
So here we have Gil, wanting to kill, but not going for lol 1000 swords.
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Gilgamesh: Let's see just to what point this little compulsive thief can keep up!
Then he fired the second volley. 16 noble phantasms. No sign of him being serious, just irritated. You are heavily misinterpretating things here.
And it was stated that Lancelot couldn't survive the next volley.
Then he fired the second volley. 16 noble phantasms. No sign of him being serious, just irritated. You are heavily misinterpretating things here.
And it was stated that Lancelot couldn't survive the next volley.
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- #108
Yes then he fights Lancelot again later, no use of swords anywhere beyond 10.
Stated, you mean by Gil?
Stated, you mean by Gil?
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You are literally clinging to one instance of him not using a thousand noble phantasms even though it wasn't needed.
I vote Gilgamesh due to adapting tactics, overwhelming GoB spam and Noble Phantasms abilities he would use.
I vote Gilgamesh due to adapting tactics, overwhelming GoB spam and Noble Phantasms abilities he would use.
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- #110
I said above. The only thing that would even begin the argument here is Gil going for 1000 NP. Show me more cases that imply he'll even go for this. Him using it once, doesn't mean he'll go for it all the time.
Even if he uses the 1k blast, Ikki still has ways around it, but let's go 1 step at a time.
Even if he uses the 1k blast, Ikki still has ways around it, but let's go 1 step at a time.
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He used it because it was necessary. That's what tactics are for. That's like asking why did he use A rank NPs against Heracles. Because that's exactly what was needed to defeat him.
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- #112
So him using 1k swords once. Is him opening up with it huh?
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That's evidence of him using an appropriate strategy in the fight.
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- #114
1. Did he even open up with it?
2. Him using what he needed to once doesn't mean he does it all the time. Lancelot case, he didn't open up with what he needed to.
2. Him using what he needed to once doesn't mean he does it all the time. Lancelot case, he didn't open up with what he needed to.
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1. Yes.
2. We've already listed several fights where he does what is needed. His aim was not to immediately kill Lancelot, only after the second volley, at which point Tokiomi orders him to fall back.
2. We've already listed several fights where he does what is needed. His aim was not to immediately kill Lancelot, only after the second volley, at which point Tokiomi orders him to fall back.
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- #116
2. I can list you literally 95% of Ikki's fights where he starts off with what's needed. Shall i use the same logic and say "lol Trackless Step" and turn this into an uber stomp for Ikki?
Use what he opens up with most often. Not what he used that one time and apply that here cus that's the only thing he can even hope to do.
Use what he opens up with most often. Not what he used that one time and apply that here cus that's the only thing he can even hope to do.
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That's not how this works. I'll use what I want in my argument and you use what you want in yours. Currently, my argument is valid.
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- #118
...
That's not how this works. That only works in "bloodlusted". I can make this bloodlusted if you want, but right now it's "in character" as in "in gil's character" not "in your character".
That's not how this works. That only works in "bloodlusted". I can make this bloodlusted if you want, but right now it's "in character" as in "in gil's character" not "in your character".
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Fire, don't act like you know the character more while not even understanding the fights he's been. Gilgamesh was never in any danger of Lancelot, which is obvious with the fact he wasn't trying. He didn't even start trying because he was in danger, he did because he was angry Lancelot forced him to the ground.
He used higher class weapons because that's what could hurt Berserker.
He used wave after wave of weapons against Cu who has a special skill to aim predict projectiles.
He set up his auto deflectors for long range sniping attacks from Alcides and levitation NP, plus a magnifying lens to check on him 20 kms away.
He backed off from Saber in UBW feeling her massive increase in power due to contract from Rin.
The author himself outright tells you he can tell how skilled Sasaki is without fighting him and wouldn't even try swordmanship with him, which means he would obviously never let him get even a bit close.
Again, Gil isn't an imbecile. And unlike Shirou, Ikki doesn't have any special trait that irks Gilgamesh and he doesn't go from barely making a few swords and bending over uselessly after that to making a Reality Marble, one of Magecraft's most difficult spells.
He used higher class weapons because that's what could hurt Berserker.
He used wave after wave of weapons against Cu who has a special skill to aim predict projectiles.
He set up his auto deflectors for long range sniping attacks from Alcides and levitation NP, plus a magnifying lens to check on him 20 kms away.
He backed off from Saber in UBW feeling her massive increase in power due to contract from Rin.
The author himself outright tells you he can tell how skilled Sasaki is without fighting him and wouldn't even try swordmanship with him, which means he would obviously never let him get even a bit close.
Again, Gil isn't an imbecile. And unlike Shirou, Ikki doesn't have any special trait that irks Gilgamesh and he doesn't go from barely making a few swords and bending over uselessly after that to making a Reality Marble, one of Magecraft's most difficult spells.
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- #120
About the "he can tell how skilled Sasaki is". The author never said that. He just said "he wouldn't get close someone as skilled as Sasaki", but that would just be implying they had previous knowledge, he never said "he'll understand how skilled sasaki is" just "he'll know".
And again, no matter who he's fighting 1'000 noble phantasms would do the job. Need i remind you he almost died because of Berzerker's last effort, he saved himself by being marginally faster by virtue of not needing to move to activate GoB, he was visibly scared there, he didn't expect things to go like that.
He's not an imbecile, but that doesn't mean "he's omniscient and will open up with the best strategy he needs". As i said opening up with the best is not uncommon, but that's just plot usually.
And again, no matter who he's fighting 1'000 noble phantasms would do the job. Need i remind you he almost died because of Berzerker's last effort, he saved himself by being marginally faster by virtue of not needing to move to activate GoB, he was visibly scared there, he didn't expect things to go like that.
He's not an imbecile, but that doesn't mean "he's omniscient and will open up with the best strategy he needs". As i said opening up with the best is not uncommon, but that's just plot usually.
