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Ikki Kurogane vs Shizuku Yaegashi (7-7)
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
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The problem is that the gravity hax is thought based (at least the attract and repel parts, cutting gravity indeed need an action but in that is just a swing to the surroundings to make the zero gravity), so she can activate it before Ikki get the chance to decide use the amps, and after that's pulled even if he use the amps he would be unable to move (in case he get attracted to one of the hundred swords he would be unable to move afterwards, and if instead she use repel he would be unable to get close to her).
So based in this I vote Shizuku.
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Hmm
Noneless21
He/Him- 7,508
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isn't amps that can make a character jump tier is not allowed
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They can be restricted or not if the op desire so, in this case the op didn't wanted to have them restricted (not like the tiers jump actually matter since Shizuku things continue to be as effective do to haxs).
Noneless21
He/Him- 7,508
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It seems that if he feel he need he will, so the argument was that he would feel the danger of the spatial cuts and go for amps to blitz. While Shizuku argument is that she would begin with gravity manip that would impede Ikki from moving, in Shizuku case she usually begin with either spatial or gravity hax, so by default is 50% probable that she begin with it and said possibility can go up if she feel danger from him (either with instincts or even her info analysis telling her about his speed amps).
Noneless21
He/Him- 7,508
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i dunno about yall but that just sounds like Shizuku should takes this more than not tbh, it's either Shizuku go for gravity pull and prevent Ikki from moving, thus become an easy target, or Shizuku go for spatial cut and either Ikki dodge and go for blitz route or Ikki got hit in the vitals and go bye bye
either that or incon, but leaning towards Shizuku now though
either that or incon, but leaning towards Shizuku now though
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Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
He/Him- 3,706
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I'm leaning towards Shizuku because she doesn't have any incest shit happening in her life or in the verse at least not that i know of
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Noneless21
He/Him- 7,508
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alongside Yuuka ye
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
He/Him- 3,706
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Voting Ikki FRA
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Just wanted to mention this ain't really a result cus that would mean Shizuku is trying to hit someone 600 times faster.
So the arguments are done for the most part but the scenarios are:
-Shizuku opens up with spatial hax. Ikki senses kick in, amp into becoming too fast for shizuku to do anything into kill. Win for Ikki.
-Shizuku opens up with gravity hax, Ikki gets caught. Ikki will fate hax her into a win condition (kills). Win for Ikki.
-Shizuku opens up with gravity + spatial cut. Win for shizuku.
My vote was for Ikki since he wins in more scenarios. Feel free to vote on which you believe is more likely tho.
Noneless21
He/Him- 7,508
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I still vote Shizuku for Expectro's reasoning
Also, shouldn't his Fate manip be listed under acausality negation like Archie Sonic? Also, imo Fate manip shouldn't work given Shizuku's plot resistance, it works against acausal being yes but imo, that doesn't give it more layers needed to affect someone wuth plot resistance but it's my opinion i suppose
Also, shouldn't his Fate manip be listed under acausality negation like Archie Sonic? Also, imo Fate manip shouldn't work given Shizuku's plot resistance, it works against acausal being yes but imo, that doesn't give it more layers needed to affect someone wuth plot resistance but it's my opinion i suppose
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
He/Him- 3,706
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count me for shizuku then i thought there will be more debates.
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Nope, we don't give negation unless there's reason to believe he negated their acausality instead of just having better fate manip.
Plot and fate are different though. Resistance to 1 doesn't give resistance to the other. It's just site things.
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Not the same, sure, but they are pretty similar (enough that there was a bid thread to delete plot hax and just list it as fate hax, though ultimately was rejected do some people believing that some plot hax have things that are hard to classify as just fate hax), the community in general also treat plot hax as above fate hax (even above concepts, though I disagree with that). So while yes they are different abilitites, is reasonable that people think that, in the context of this fight, Shizuku could resist it.
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I do believe that itself answers your question. What the community believes is different from what is actually true. Nowhere do we accept plot hax as fate hax for us to equalize resistances, otherwise we'd have to say things like acausality gives resistance to plot hax and other things like that which aren't necessarily true.
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You are missing the entire point though, but well.
EL_xWatcher1234x
He/Him- 2,602
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voting for Shizuku
RandomGuy2345
He/Him- 24,708
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This is the exact reason why I hate High-hax battles.
All of these passive hax and other BS is why I tend to stay away from battles like this.
Anyways, I'm more convinced by the arguments made for Shizuku, so Shizu FRA
All of these passive hax and other BS is why I tend to stay away from battles like this.
Anyways, I'm more convinced by the arguments made for Shizuku, so Shizu FRA
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Actually, it makes sense here if we say resistance plot is resistance fate manipulation, but it can't be the same for all of them, because the mechanism and workings of each ability can be different, especially here Ikki who has Causality Manipulation above the average from conventional Causality Manipulation in general, this is also Thought Based, oh yeah, someone also asked me about Ikki's Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 Resistance, it's because Desperados can resist Stella Vermillion's ability who has Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 (Universal Concept Dragon Past- Present-Future). At this time I hold Ikki because it has many winconditions that are more likely for Ikki.
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We can also actually assume that Resistance Causality Manipulation can also be Resistance to Fate Manipulation, because Causality Manipulation can include Past-Present-Future, while Fate Manipulation is related to events that occur in the future.
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It was me who asked because in no part of ikki page or desperado physiology is mentioned resistance to conceptual manip (even less immunity as you mentioned on your original post). An you mention above average, but the point is that Shizuku can also resist things above average (layered conceptual manip type 2 and even type 1), so that detail isn't actually that mind blowing or revelant on this context against Shizuku.
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6-5? Daaamn that's tight, nice.
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Have always thought about this, but how many votes would be needed to reach an inconclusive via the two sides having too many votes?
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