One sword vs Every Sword: Ikki vs Gilgamesh

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

What? No. Stomps are also when the chance to win is by all means astronomical.

Full Ea has never been shot right away, it always charges. And normal Ea, if that even hits Ikki if that's possible with the speed difference, is 6-C. Ikki will at most be pushed back then go right back in.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Considering the fact that Ea devours Space with its spinning alone, he would definitely die.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I am not talking about full Ea, I am talking about those casual 6-C blasts Gil can do without charging the weapon, like the one against Saber or Shirou.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What? No. Stomps are also when the chance to win is by all means astronomical.
Full Ea has never been shot right away, it always charges. And normal Ea, if that even hits Ikki if that's possible with the speed difference, is 6-C. Ikki will at most be pushed back then go right back in.

Yes, but that's for moves that are so out of character they almost never or possibly never get used. An example would be Sirzechs Lucifer winning via mind hax. He has a really potent mind hax due to being one of the strongest devils in the verse, but he has never been shown to use it in combat. The chance for him to use to win a fight without previous knowledge would be almost non existent resulting in a stomp. EA is not in the same case as it's just not used as a first move, but it's in character.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

But eh, if this is a stomp, then call someone to close this, idk.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

No... You are misunderstanding. If Gilgamesh merely lost because he couldn't pull Ea at the correct time, then he simply lost because he's cocky and that's all well and good.

But even if he pulls it off in his best case scenario, Gilgamesh only has time to use the 6-C blast that Ikki can easily survive, if not simply evade, since he'd be in that tier and has energy dispersion to soften the blow. After that I don't see Gil getting off another blast in time, and a 500x speed difference is a big deal when you are trying to hit a human sized target hundreds of meters away.

Precog also means Itto Rasetsu will always happen, Gilgamesh has no "can't be detected, suddenly hits you out of nowhere" weapon.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok then stomp it is.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bloodlust Gil then

....Actually don't do that because Gil will just wreck Ikki into oblivion when bloodlusted lel. Anyway this is a bad match-up

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bloodlust Gil then
....Actually don't do that because Gil will just wreck Ikki into oblivion when bloodlusted lel. Anyway this is a bad match-up

Sir just said, Ikki stomps even then cus he blitzes with amps before Gil can use EA.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bloodlusted Gil mean he can use SNI which can tell him he get blitzed

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

"Ea's spinning alone devours Space", not fully charged Ea. The moment it starts spinning the effect starts. This was shown in Strange/Fake and not Stay Night.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bloodlusted Gil mean he can use SNI which can tell him he get blitzed

He cannot avoid the blitz apparently though. Like the moment Ikki senses danger, he'll blitz, and apparently Gil can't do anything to counterplay that.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Not anything that I know of. His only weapon that reacts automatically was made for projectiles, and sufficiently fast projectiles could still get past it without issue.

 

[Solacis]

Bloodlusted Gil precogs the entire fight's every possible outcome in an instant, teleports into orbit using his Gates and busts the continent with full power Enuma Elish. Ikki would get destroyed.

Speaking of which, I don't know why Teleportation isn't listed on Gil's profile. His gates are explicitly portals to his treasury and can open anywhere he wants them to, and he's even shown teleporting Shinji above the Einzbern Castle outside of Fuyuki in the UBW anime.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Standard Battle Assumptions in play?

Gilgamesh gleans Ikki's skill as **** high and has a super steroid skill, nopes off on Vimana and do something like swing Merodach in Ikki's general direction while readying his armory in case that doesn't do it. That is unless, Ikki has a way to somehow know that he's running straight into a death ball and that he has to activate Ittou Rasetsu immediately.

Some things of note:

Vs Zerkcelot: Iirc, it was implied that had Tokiomi not called Gil off, the next volley of 32 NPs would've hurt him bad, if not kill him then and there. Gil can fire off a thousand if he cared. Primary reason that Zerk even lasted so long was because Gil only saw him as a rabid dog to be put down, and didn't want in on it. Skill was secondary.

Vs Sasaki: It was noted that Sasaki was so damn skilled that Gilgamesh didn't even want to walk into sword range, despite getting in Herakles' face later. Hell, even Cu, the resident battle nut who wanted to fight everybody and their mothers if they could fight worth a damn, didn't want to fight him at all. Very likely, if Gil wanted him dead, then he'd just bombard Sasaki from a distance.

Vs Cu: The guy who was famed for not dying until he dies, and the hard counter against most any projectile. Gilgamesh immediately acknowledged that Cu wasn't so easy to deal with and immediately went to a thousand NPs barrage.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Grammy

Well ikki does have just that. His senses will sense an overall danger and prevent him from triggering it. Against stella he could even see visions of his head getting blown if he does something. And like after the first few swords, perfect vision will kick in and it's like gg there

 

[Solacis]

I still don't understand how you can think that Ikki can dodge Gilgamesh's all-out spam.

Gilgamesh at full spam has enough weapons everywhere at all times such that the space between weapons is too small for Ikki to even fit through. He _literally_ has nowhere to dodge. His actual speed and mobility doesn't matter at that point.

Shirou's UBW spam, a spam that's only slightly better quantity-wise compared to GoB, was capable of clashing with Enuma Elish's beam. Unless you can convince me that Ikki can bob and weave his way through a spam that a massive energy blast couldn't get through, then Ikki cannot dodge. It doesn't matter if he can see each and every single one coming, he can't dodge a solid dome of swords.

Ikki either needs enough raw power to constantly keep blasting away every weapon in his general vicinity, or otherwise a forcefield that filters out everything except the space-tearing weapons; neither of which he possesses.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ikki can deflect the blows just fine.

His skill lets him deflect and reflect way stronger attacks.

 

[Gemmysaur]

He deflects way stronger attacks hundreds at a time from all directions while the enemy is aiming to swing a sword nuke at him?

Arturia's brand of precog that let her escape death twice (one with the help of fate-defying luck against time-warp Gae Bolg, another against spatial refraction from Tsubame Gaeshi), and it did little in helping her against Gil.

 

[Solacis]

Yeah I'm not convinced.

Unless Ikki has been shown to have deflected omnidirectional rainfall in which every droplet is moving at MHS speeds and possesses an AP comparable to his own at full strength, then Gilgamesh takes this with pure bladespam; nevermind the fact that he'd be charging Ea just in case while Ikki struggles to not get hit.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean he deflected millions (? im assuming that based on the name of the ability being Million Rain), of invisible arrows from an invisible guy, carpet bombing the place. So....

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Just for context of what i mean.


Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry - Ikki Kurogane vs Shizuya Kirihara (Full fight HD eng sub)

Skip to 6:40

(The subs are horrendous, so just focus on the action. Something similar will happen here.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Google fu definitely helps.

The ability:

The Noble Art Million Rai was an attack of indiscriminate scope made of more than a hundred pieces of iro. Kirihara had concluded that if his thoughts were being read, he should carpet-bomb the area without thinking.

Literal translation:

Million Rai: This uses the kanji Ú®ƒÚø¿þâêÕàëÚûâ, "Shuu'u Rekkouse ("Downpour of Violent Light").

Source: Bakatsuki

It's just him blindly shooting more than a hundred pieces of iron. It's not even supposed to be named "million" by any stretch. That's... whelming.

Meanwhile, Gil's shooting hundreds of weapons, up to a thousand, that explode, and may carry individual abilities that would screw over Ikki.

Still, the destructive power was enormous. The road surface was blown up like it was hit with an explosive blast, and the scene was shrouded by the dust of the asphalt pulverized into particles.

However, Archer's Noble Phantasms did not lose their lethality simply because they were avoided. Three out of the six - an axe, a scythe, and a scimitar - immediately spun, changing direction and closing in on the F15's tail.

This sword is of ice.
She twists her body to avoid it, but the space the sword goes through freezes.
Saber retreats, covered in ice.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean, that's why a put a question mark on the "million". I just went for the name cus idk what else to use atm.

But the point still stands. He literally grabbed a single arrow and used it to bust a hundred others, and even deflected them head on.

Ikki gonna predict the explosions and the freezing. Considering blazers can notice the presence of magic. The homing attacks aren't something he hasn't fought (fought a girl who uses the concept of "target" for so that her bullets will never miss their target, even if dodged or reflected they will home in).

 

[Gemmysaur]

But the point still stands. He literally grabbed a single arrow and used it to bust a hundred others, and even deflected them head on.

He didn't. He dodged aimless arrowheads.

Ikki gonna predict the explosions and the freezing. Considering blazers can notice the presence of magic. The homing attacks aren't something he hasn't fought (fought a girl who uses the concept of "target" for so that her bullets will never miss their target, even if dodged or reflected they will home in).

Arturia has precog that did nil. Precog that let her survive time reversal and spatial refraction.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He deflected them too, and even cut down many of them.

About arturia. Having precog doesn't mean much. Having the skill needed is what means. I may know exactly what Gil will do, doesn't mean i can do much against it. Similarly she knew what gil would do, but she couldn't fend them off. Ikki can.

 

[Makkurona]

I mean, Gil doesn't throw just any weapon. He throws Noble Phantasms, stuffs that can **** up even gods and phantasmal beasts, even at low ranks. If he throws even a B-A rank NP like Durandal or Vajra, unless you are Lancelot Berserker or Karna, you are dead meat if it hits.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's what deflection does.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Deflecting projectiles is one thing. Deflecting projectiles with individual abilities like suddenly spinning back towards your back, exploding on contact, freezing space, etc.

Hell, if Gil got particularly antsy that he's being threatened by a guy far too skilled for him to handle, he may well chuck Ig-Alima out along with his thousand barrage.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes, but homing in attacks have weaknesses that Ikki exploits, and by that i mean dispersing the force of the throw, so that it has no more energy to spin and home back in. Exploding is literally Stella's whole shtick. Like why is that such a big thing? Freezing space is...ok(?) does that even matter unless it hits?

Yeah but like that's not only a heavy assumption on the "If gil realizes this and that and that other thing too", i mean it's not gonna take much time for Ikki to close the gap bruh. Considering no amount of weapons will really stop his advance, but there is also the stat amps to take into account, if Ikki senses threat he'll go for Shura or Rasetsu.

 

[Makkurona]

That is why i said it's not just random weapons, but Noble Phantasms, stuffs that are literally legendary weapons, no matter how low ranked it is. Hrunting will always fly to the target no matter what happens, Caladbolg and Vajra that are literally mini nuke, axe that will still fly at jet speed even if evaded, heroes killing spears etc. Once he starts throwing these kind of things, even a stupidly speedy tank like Herc won't be able to do anything.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I literally just answered above how he counters all the things you mentioned though

Also a speedy tank =/= a skilled dude with a sword.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Does he siphon the energy? If yes, then okay. If no, then it spins back at him regardless.

Fire, iirc, is Stella's whole thing. And he's going up against a thousand of powerful weapons, and there's no indication which ones will explode, and which ones are just shot so hard that it explodes what it hits anyway, and which ones have other esoteric effects.

Freezing space? Arturia dodged it. She got iced for all her effort.

He's not making it a walk in the park to move through a thousand noble phantasms with individual abilities while Gil is aiming to beam him from above. That's heavy assumption too, considering the closest barrage to Gate of Babylon he's ever dealt with is barely above a hundred, with no particular effects beyond being invisible, is fired with no particular aim at all, and is vastly weaker to the armaments being thrown out by Gil, bruh.

Also, Herk = speedy tank with skill so high that it ignores him supposedly losing it due to being in the Berserker class.

 

[Makkurona]

Herc is still skillful as Berserker even by Servant standards. Tbh, the only sure way to evade GoB barrage is teleporting like abilites, like Shukuchi for example.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Pardon me, but can you define "siphon the energy".

Or explosions, considering how stuff like Bahamut Howl works and other fire attacks of hers it works almost exactly like explosions. He knows which explode, which don't etc. Even if Gil uses everything on the first barrage (which is extremely unlikely, as he usually opens up with normal attacks), his senses will warn him about the properties of the swords. If it's not the first barrage, well...Perfect Vision.

Depends on by how much she dodged, and how the spear works. I need a more clear definiton of what happens. And dodging and deflecting may give different results.

"Barely above a hundred"

Constantly being bombarded by that many and that was volume 1 whereas right now he's volume 9 (in this fight) which means his skill compared to then is literally like a baby compared to a behemoth and before he fought Edelweiss which gave him omega senses, but yes. Also like, there is the fact that when has Gil thrown instantly way more than 100 swords at a time? He throws more than that eventually, but even when he makes a huge wall behind him it doesn't really go significantly beyond 100.

 

[John985]

Fate Day 15

A thousand swords appear.
The golden knight grins.
That's why he was able to block Lancer's surprise attack.
Lancer wasn't the only one trying to launch a surprise attack on his ally.

 

[Solacis]

Phoenix, you are severely overestimating Ikki's abilities.

Gilgamesh will know how skilled Ikki is, and will open with high output spam from GoB. When it came to Kirihara, the projectiles were small and weak enough for Ikki to slip between some and break the rest. To assume he can do the same with Noble Phantasms is patently ridiculous.

As an example as to how ridiculous your claim is, Shirou Emiya was capable of replicating the weapons fired from Gate of Babylon at close to the exact same level of strength when they fought each other at the climax of Unlimited Blade Works (the route). These replicas shattered just to deflect their originals. To compare with Ikki, the absolute weakest of Gilgamesh's weapons are still baseline 7-A, already over 10 times stronger than Ikki's best attack in Ittou Rasetsu. Forget deflecting the bladespam, Intetsu would be annihilated after a couple of attempts.

We've already talked about how Ikki can't hope to dodge the all-out bladespam, seeing as everywhere he could dodge to would just be occupied with another approaching weapon. You talked about how Arturia didn't have the skill to avoid the spam in spite of her precog?

Well, Ikki needs hax to survive the bladespam, much less avoid it entirely. His speed and precog is pointless in the face of it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No he will not. He won't know how skilled ikki is. It'll likely go something like this. Even at the end (3rd spam) he barely went to about 30 or 40. The projectiles being small just means less space to go through. It's like saying "it's harder to get through beach balls than through molecules". Ikki isn't small enough to slip through, he just deflected everything that came at him.

Deflecting gonna be easy. 7-A ain't a big deal. He as i said, beat 4 High 7-A people at the same time. Reflected beyond High 7-A attacks etc. And no his sword won't break. The sword do need you to have more magic than the user to even get past the invulnerability, but even then the swords were tanking attacks from Stella who was way stronger than High 7-A, just fine. So the sword won't shatter, and ikki will deflect the Noble Phantasms no problem. He has deflected WAY stronger stuff while being unconscious.

That's just your opinion. Not looking at the things objectively, that Ikki pushed through an omnidirectional attack that filled the entire closed area up to the clouds, and wasn't damaged. And there is stuff like Trackless Step, ittou forms and lastsly the fact that Ikki sees everything Gil does in literally slow motion. Due to him always opening up with Pseudo Ittou Shura (on his profile what it means), which makes him perceive and react to stuff 48x faster. Along with his omega senses, his ability to have no blind spots and having complete awareness of everything around him. Comparing him to a girl with just precog is pitiful when he has that very same thing and more.

 

[Solacis]

Well in that case, I stand corrected. I wasn't aware of his more impressive AP feats since they aren't noted on his profile. They should, by the way. There's a Notes section for a reason.

 

[NeoSuperior]

did Gil ever fought Sasaki?

Yes, he did so in the Fate route off-screen. You can easily guess what the result was... most likely swordspam, gg, since Sasaki is stationary, there was no way for him to counter.