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The Sword God vs The Fist Of God

Phoenks said:
Petty sure the difference between reactions and combat speed stays consistent, so his reactions are still 2000x his combat speed even if he is equalized. As per the new speed equal rules iirc
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No, Garou's reaction becomes equal to Ikki's reaction. They don't keep the difference.

Epiccheev said:
Iirc speed equal rules forbids the slower character from using amps to blitz the faster character
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Indeed, but amped ikki is faster than peak Garou, so in this case it is allowed. It's the reason i asked how fast is Garou earlier. To know whether amps were an illegal move or not.

Chariot190 said:
Garou could literally disperse Ikki on a planetary scale with the shockwave resulting from the clap of his ass cheeks, I don't think vapor is helping.
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Ikki still has amps and a bunch of other things up his sleeve. Like trackless step, could Garou copy something he can't see? And obviously fate hax if he's pushed too far.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
No, Garou's reaction becomes equal to Ikki's reaction. They don't keep the difference.
Click to expand...
"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc." ~ Versus Thread Rules

oops, Garou retains his 2000x reactions
 
DaReaperMan said:
"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc." ~ Versus Thread Rules
Click to expand...
Wait, is this new? I don't remember this back in my day.

So Garou's reactions are, wait a sec, his profile doesn't say anything about reaction speeds being that much higher.
 
Well excuse me then.

Now if someone can explain why a 2000x difference in reaction speed isn't on Garou's profile we can remove amps from the equation. Cus we do take characters at their peak here so this would mean Garou after copying Saitama.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Ikki still has amps and a bunch of other things up his sleeve. Like trackless step, could Garou copy something he can't see? And obviously fate hax if he's pushed too far.
Click to expand...
Lad, amps ain't helping, ever, against Garou unless they're absolutely ridiculous ones with a string of zeros behind them.
Ignoring Garou starts off like 50 magnitudes above him in power, but I assume you mean speed. Ikki amps his speed 600x, so he's 600x faster, cool that's great, he goes to attack, but by the time he's finished throwing that attack Garou's passive AD, mimicry and a bunch of other wacky shit has mitigated that advantage already so Garou just reacts, copies and uh oh Ikki is in trouble. And Ikki just ****** himself because he gave Garou a 600x speed boost he could copy, which he does, and then gets even faster because his speed is always getting better based on every fight we've seen him just about.

Which is another thing to note, Ikki has amps, but Garou's speed is going to be increasing nonstop through the whole fight, Ikki in speed equal won't be 600x Garou, because the moment the match starts Garou's speed is going be sky rocketing without stopping, thus making that 600x amp less and less, meaning the longer it takes for Ikki to amp, the less of a difference there'd be, and the less of a difference means less of a blitz, assuming Garou doesn't AD so fast he pulls that reverse uno card and he blitzes Ikki himself within a fraction of a second into the match given Garou himself can close speed blitzes in moments.

Ikki would need to amp the literal instant the match starts, can't even wait a second, can't even waste time closing the distance or throwing a few test attacks, no bullshit, no nothing, instant amp, and then he must go immediately into his best bullshit hax. And that's assuming they start off close because if he starts off at SBA or something, by the time he covers that distance Garou's already gonna have mitigated it with passive speed AD.

For all the sus bullshit that gets thrown around with Garou, one thing he absolutely has in spades, is ridiculous AD, even before awakening his speed increased to where in milliseconds he could perform blitzes on those he was equal to, and against Saitama it's even better, seemingly making noticeable jumps between blows.

Garou stomps FRA, shouldn't even be added.
 
Chariot190 said:
Ikki amps his speed 600x, so he's 600x faster, cool that's great, he goes to attack, but by the time he's finished throwing that attack Garou's passive AD, mimicry and a bunch of other wacky shit has mitigated that advantage already so Garou just reacts, copies and uh oh Ikki is in trouble. And Ikki just ****** himself because he gave Garou a 600x speed boost he could copy, which he does, and then gets even faster because his speed is always getting better based on every fight we've seen him just about.
Click to expand...
Thing is, from what im seeing most of what Garou does will trigger Ikki's danger senses, which means him using amps straight off the bat isn't off the table. Now garou isn't gonna cover a 600x difference that quickly, yes his AD is insane, but going from "oh im on par" to "oh im winning through speed/blitzing", that could be as little as 2x difference. So there's no quantification about how fast he really grows. In other words, you can't argue he closes a 600x gap that quick.

Moreover, iirc garou doesn't randomly get stronger, he gets stronger through fighting. So he doesn't just "fight starts im already 2x faster than 1 milisecond ago".

So it's a fair argument, but the gap is too massive to be debated like that, unless we have a scene of garou actually pulling off an adaptation that massive that quickly.


But as I said, if someone can show me Garou having on his profile 2000x faster reaction speed than combat speed at his peak. This may need to be closed.
 
I can respond to that whole post with one sentence.
"Saitama was thousands of times faster", couple that with my previous allusions to his AD against Saitama and you'll figure out what I mean.
 
Chariot190 said:
I can respond to that whole post with one sentence.
"Saitama was thousands of times faster", couple that with my previous allusions to his AD against Saitama and you'll figure out what I mean.
Click to expand...
He copied saitama though, he didn't adapt to be as fast as him. His whole fight plan was "im gonna continuously copy him".
 
Was more referring to the gaps between blows that enabled him to do that in the first place, but judging from your past posts it probably isn't gonna matter what I say regarding this so I'll shift gears.
I was also gonna mention how we have calcs and stuff regarding blitzes and perception stomps in OPM as to why assuming just 2x doesn't quite check out but **** it, I'll leave you basic math instead.

At 150m, a 600x difference, should be reactable for Garou.
For the sake of basic math to simplify things, if Garou and Ikki are human speed (They aren't, but they're equalized, so it doesn't matter what value I use, the actual numerical differences and times from their POV will always be the same. I'm just using human speeds to put this into perspective), and Ikki amps 600x, that'd give Garou 0.0324675 seconds (from his perspective) to react to Ikki before he or something he does covers 150m, whether that be copying or whatever.

That is 3x above peak human (from their perspective, again). Meaning Ikki's amp is only barely edging out what's actually needed from that distance, but I'd argue Garou's AD is 100% enabling him to close that gap needed to just copy Ikki before Ikki or a 600x attack hits him from 150m away. And that's assuming Ikki basically goes immediately into the 600x amp, if he doesn't, that 600x won't be a 600x anymore and would be steadily declining as mentioned above, meaning at that point Garou is likely just reacting regardless.

And it's even worse, at SBA and not an arbitrary distance, this wouldn't even need to be subject to guesswork, the 600x literally wouldn't help at all.
At 4km, he'd have 0.865801 seconds to react from his POV, nearly a full second, that's something everyone in this thread could react to, he wouldn't even need his AD to give him a tiny push to mitigate Ikki's advantage. Yes that's right, you, you reading this, can react to something 600x above you from 4km away. This is why distance matters folks, keep this in mind, pretty sure it's why Agnaa even made a thread about blitzes from distances. It's also why I said above unless they start off quite close, Ikki is kinda ****** regardless.
N̵o̵w̵ ̵s̵o̵m̵e̵o̵n̵e̵ ̵e̵l̵s̵e̵ ̵c̵a̵n̵ ̵a̵r̵g̵u̵e̵ ̵w̵i̵t̵h̵ ̵y̵o̵u̵,̵ ̵I̵ ̵a̵i̵n̵'̵t̵ ̵a̵ ̵G̵a̵r̵o̵u̵s̵t̵a̵n̵,̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵K̵a̵c̵h̵o̵n̵ ̵o̵r̵ ̵Z̵i̵l̵l̵e̵r̵'̵s̵ ̵j̵o̵b̵
 
I mean Garou has adapted to be nearly 600x faster in mere milliseconds before so tbh he don't even really need to copy Ikki.

The current Massively Hypersonic+ value that Garou scales to(I think), is mach 7278, and Garou, within the span of milliseconds, went from that to 4.33c, or 1300863692.6 m/s.

Mach 7278 is 2496354 m/s, and 1300863692.6/2496354 is 521.105457239. So I don't think a mere 600x speed gap is going to really help when Garou in literal milliseconds evolved his stats to be nearly faster than that.
 
Yeah but:
1. As i said, Garou gets stronger during a fight, not randomly standing around. That's always been his thing.
2. You say 0.01 seconds, but "peak human reaction" is things like "pressing a button", when you consider more complex actions like "copy, then look at the attack, dodge out of the way, be careful not to block", it would take significantly more time.
azontr said:
The current Massively Hypersonic+ value that Garou scales to(I think), is mach 7278, and Garou, within the span of milliseconds, went from that to 4.33c, or 1300863692.6 m/s.

Mach 7278 is 2496354 m/s, and 1300863692.6/2496354 is 521.105457239. So I don't think a mere 600x speed gap is going to really help when Garou in literal milliseconds evolved his stats to be nearly faster than that.
Click to expand...
When? I don't remember this.
 
But yeah, Garou and Ikki interact for approximately 0.01 milliseconds and Garou proceeds to blitz, with a single clap of his humungous ass cheeks scattering Ikki's vapor across multiple solar systems.
 
I can't say i agree with the "went from MHS to 4.43c during 13 miliseconds vs sperm" cus he definitely wasn't MHS at that point, but regardless im too bored of the same argument.

So my question is: Is it too late to change the rules and make this a skill fight instead? (all hax negged and all stats equalized)
 
Firephoenixearl said:
I can't say i agree with the "went from MHS to 4.43c during 13 miliseconds vs sperm" cus he definitely wasn't MHS at that point, but regardless im too bored of the same argument.

So my question is: Is it too late to change the rules and make this a skill fight instead? (all hax negged and all stats equaliz
Click to expand...
It's on the profile.

And yes you can just make this a skill fight. It would have to go into Fun and Games, though.
 
K this is now a skill fight, i fixed the OP, hopefully i didn't **** up and forgot to restrict anything important. But we should be good.
 
Garou. He has absorbed countless techniques and styles from countless martial arts schools.
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