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One-Punch Man Revisions. Downgrade speed.

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DarthSpiderr said:
Oh, so that's what you're talking about. In any case, what if they can travel one distance in 0.013 seconds. For example 13 meters (I assumed). And they could only move at that speed throughout the fight. This, by the way, would be 1000 m / s. It's just impossible to keep track of such speed. It is impossible to keep track of this when you do not have time to follow the movement of the character with your eyes, but he is quite visible to you. Or it could be a blur while driving.
Click to expand...
But that they are seeing a blur is your interpretation based on a panel where there is nothing, nothing indicating that that is their vision, you are using the same argument as the Sonic thing that does not make any sense, moreover, in the physical version it is quoted that they could not see them
 
USklaverei said:
But that they are seeing a blur is your interpretation based on a panel where there is nothing, nothing indicating that that is their vision, you are using the same argument as the Sonic thing that does not make any sense, moreover, in the physical version it is quoted that they could not see them
Click to expand...
I just take the smallest option. First, they are depicted as blurred spots (This is obvious). Secondly, if they just move very quickly, like blurry spots, this will be enough so that they cannot be tracked. But you want to take the option where they probably run over hundreds of meters in 0.013 seconds. Believe me, they can be much slower so that they cannot be tracked due to their speed.
 
Thank you for helping out Medeus. We should wait a while for Andy and Ovens though.
 
DarthSpiderr said:

Suiryu​

There is an anime OVA. In it, Suiryu and Human Garou fought inside the VR game. This game completely copies their movements. They are quite comfortable fighting against each other and it is hard for them. The program can keep up with their movement speed (Except for the most recent hit).

All OVs are written from ONE's script. This means that the abilities of all characters are canonical.

This tells us that Suiryu and Garou are equal in speed and fighting skills. Because they react to each other and the game completely copies their movements.

To show fully open combat, the anime inserts their real bodies instead of their avatar models.

But, is AP scalable? We do not know. Perhaps they don't really touch each other. They fight each other from a distance. BUT! They often scream in pain when they hit each other. Also, they can push each other away with blows, because of him they fly back. And even push each other.

Perhaps they really hit and touch each other?

There is one factor that has led some to oppose this scaling. King defeated Suiryu. But this is due to the fact that King plays with a gamepad, and does not attack with his body. And he knows the combo.

Does Suiryu scale in speed to Human Garou? Does AP Suiryu scale to Human Garou?
Click to expand...
This one is really iffy (And I was the guy who removed this rating completely). I don't speed should scale at all, as the moment Garou started to move faster, the machine completely broke, which more or less signifies Garou being faster. Not only that, but King was able to blitz suiryu in the video game

Tho while I see speed being somewhat scaleable. AP is an absolute no, tey aren't using their physical bodies to attack one another, just their video game avatars, their video game avatars obviously do not scale to their main scaling.

DarthSpiderr said:

Sonic​

Genos has a speed of at least Mach 63.45. But Sonic is capable of creating as many as 4 afterimages in his eyes. But later on, he shows that he is capable of creating 10 afterimages for Genos. As we know, when a character is sequentially depicted for another in slow mo or moves for him at FTE speed, we multiply his speed by 1.5 times, as we did with the wet Sea King, because he was close in speed to Sonic, but before he moved for Sonic in slow motion.

Earlier, I thought along this logic:

If he create 2 afterimages for Genos, then it would already be FTE and there would already be a difference of 1.5 times. So 4 afterimages is 2 times more afterimages, hence 2 times faster (3 times faster than Genos). And 10 afterimages are 2.5 times more than 4 afterimages. Consequently, he is 7.5 times faster than Genos, that is, Mach 475.87. Or perhaps 10 times faster than Genos, as he leaves 10 afterimages for him.

But as I was told, we can only multiply once by 1.5 times.

This means that a technique that leaves 4 afterimages in Genos's eyes is 1.5 times faster than Genos (Mach 95.17). But a technique that leaves 10 afterimages is marketed as much faster than a technique with 4 afterimages. This means that it is at least 1.5 times faster than this technique (Mach 142.76). This means he is faster than Genos by a total of 2.25 times faster. This is a pretty mundane result. Be that as it may, after the first multiplication of 1.5 times, Sonic only needs to be 5% faster to be an MHS. As much as the 10 afterimage technique is faster, it must be fast enough to be MHS grade.
Click to expand...
This, I'm more or less ok with the latter, however, it should only scale to his faster attacks like ten shadow burial and not his base speed. and no one else should scale to his afterimage speeds.

DarthSpiderr said:
By the way. In one of the OVA, Sonic was FTE for Metal Bat, Genos and Darkshine. As I said before, ONE writes the script for all OVAs. Another proof in favor of MHS Sonic.
Click to expand...
This one is a no. Because darkshine is able to keep up with Half monster Garou, who is superior to human Garou, who could keep up with post superfight Genos, who should be superior to G4 Genos, and G4 Genos is comparable to Sonic. Not only that, but Metal Bat
is able to keep up with the likes of Melzalgald, who should be superior to even post superfight Genos, and stoof a better chance against Carnage kabuto then G4 Genos did.

And lastly, this is BoS Genos that sonic is blitzing, not G4 Genos. And sonic doesn't even blitz anyone in the ova as far as I have seen, so unless I'm missing something, sonic is not faster than either Darkshine or metal bat.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
This one is really iffy (And I was the guy who removed this rating completely). I don't speed should scale at all, as the moment Garou started to move faster, the machine completely broke, which more or less signifies Garou being faster. Not only that, but King was able to blitz suiryu in the video game

Tho while I see speed being somewhat scaleable. AP is an absolute no, tey aren't using their physical bodies to attack one another, just their video game avatars, their video game avatars obviously do not scale to their main scaling.
Click to expand...
About AP, I just assumed. Because it hurt them to receive damage and they flew up from the blows (Not avatars, but the players themselves).

Garou violently attacked Suiryu and screamed at some points when hitting him. He clearly didn't hold back. Apparently, he fought the entire fight at a possible peak to calculate the speed of the program. At the end of the battle, the program could no longer reproduce his speed, because he began to beat even a little faster. But Suiryu can still scale up to Garou, because before that Garou was still surprised by Suiryu's attacks (Judging by his expression when he blocks his attacks) and screams furiously before striking (Which suggests that he does not hold back striking and even uses Bang's style).

King blitzed Suiryu for playing on a gamepad instead of live. He knows combos, his fingers need a movement equal to millimeters to press the button. He just used a combo from the beginning, which immediately started attacking Suiryu. When you get hit by one of the enemy's blows in fighting games, the rest of the blows cannot be blocked, because your character writhes in pain for a split second and the second player can start spamming you with blows at that moment.

Suiryu did not try to do anything to block the koala's attacks. But at the same time, the timeframe of the koala's actions is not small, because Suiryu's avatar managed to move in a standing animation. Hence, he simply did not expect such actions. He didn’t react because he didn’t expect this.

And on top of that, King as a player is a comedy character. He could win because it's funny. Well, or because he is a gamer divine level.

Emirp sumitpo said:
This, I'm more or less ok with the latter, however, it should only scale to his faster attacks like ten shadow burial and not his base speed. and no one else should scale to his afterimage speeds.
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Galle and Flame in human form scale because they caused problems for Sonic and moved like a blur in his eyes. And no, it's his own speed. He just held back the entire fight. This technique allows him to move so precisely that it not only makes him invisible due to his speed, but leaves afterimages in the eyes of the enemy, each of which resembles a clone, thereby disorienting the enemy. This is not a magical or technological technique to speed up the character at times. Speed is speed, it does not change from techniques.

By the way, this technique gives him a reaction speed and so on. He reacts to how he moves in circular motions around Genos.

In this technique, he simply moves so that at one point in space he can stay at the desired point a little longer than usual, and then move to another point and stand there in the same position with the same time frame, and then go to another point and standing there again with this position. This is why it invisibly moves between afterimages, but the images themselves are visible.

And before you say that these are just my fantasies - these are not fantasies, but a logical explanation. This is how it is physically possible.

Emirp sumitpo said:
This one is a no. Because darkshine is able to keep up with Half monster Garou, who is superior to human Garou, who could keep up with post superfight Genos, who should be superior to G4 Genos, and G4 Genos is comparable to Sonic. Not only that, but Metal Bat
is able to keep up with the likes of Melzalgald, who should be superior to even post superfight Genos, and stoof a better chance against Carnage kabuto then G4 Genos did.

And lastly, this is BoS Genos that sonic is blitzing, not G4 Genos. And sonic doesn't even blitz anyone in the ova as far as I have seen, so unless I'm missing something, sonic is not faster than either Darkshine or metal bat.
Click to expand...
First, where did you get the idea that post-G4 Genos is equal to Sonic? Sonic is literally FTE for Genos during their fight. He creates 10 afterimages in his eyes. Human Garou is comparable to Genos. And so on.

Now speaking of this, I doubt Melzagand can scale to Bang in speed.
I mean, Prisoner, Iaian and Metal Bat are much slower than Atomic Samurai and Bang, but they are also faster than Melzagand, who scales to Bang. Bita was slower than Garou. The Prisoner is much slower than the Half-Monster Garou, for whom Darkshine is very fast, although Darkshine was much slower in sparring than Bang. As for Iaian, it might be an outlier.

So we have two options. First, Melzagand scales to Wet Sea King (High Hypersonic+) because he is a dragon. Second, he scales to Bang, because he can be hit, but other S-class heroes do not scale to Melzagand, because this is an outlier.

By the way. Even without this OVA, it is much faster than the Metal Bat. It is much faster than Genos, which is comparable to Garou, which is comparable but still faster than Bat.

But still, given this OVA, he teleports into their eyes on the first floor behind their backs due to his speed.
 
DarthSpiderr said:
Galle and Flame in human form scale because they caused problems for Sonic and moved like a blur in his eyes. And no, it's his own speed. He just held back the entire fight. This technique allows him to move so precisely that it not only makes him invisible due to his speed, but leaves afterimages in the eyes of the enemy, each of which resembles a clone, thereby disorienting the enemy. This is not a magical or technological technique to speed up the character at times. Speed is speed, it does not change from techniques.

By the way, this technique gives him a reaction speed and so on. He reacts to how he moves in circular motions around Genos.

In this technique, he simply moves so that at one point in space he can stay at the desired point a little longer than usual, and then move to another point and stand there in the same position with the same time frame, and then go to another point and standing there again with this position. This is why it invisibly moves between afterimages, but the images themselves are visible.

And before you say that these are just my fantasies - these are not fantasies, but a logical explanation. This is how it is physically possible.
Click to expand...
Sonic didn't use any of his advance techniques against them afaik, he never used ten shadow burial or any of that. Also that is the textbook definition of what an afterimage is, sonic is still just moving so fast he's making afterimages. And I;m not sure why you're trying to make a point about his reaction speed. His reaction speed scales to his movement speed by default.

DarthSpiderr said:
About AP, I just assumed. Because it hurt them to receive damage and they flew up from the blows (Not avatars, but the players themselves).

Garou violently attacked Suiryu and screamed at some points when hitting him. He clearly didn't hold back. Apparently, he fought the entire fight at a possible peak to calculate the speed of the program. At the end of the battle, the program could no longer reproduce his speed, because he began to beat even a little faster. But Suiryu can still scale up to Garou, because before that Garou was still surprised by Suiryu's attacks (Judging by his expression when he blocks his attacks) and screams furiously before striking (Which suggests that he does not hold back striking and even uses Bang's style).

King blitzed Suiryu for playing on a gamepad instead of live. He knows combos, his fingers need a movement equal to millimeters to press the button. He just used a combo from the beginning, which immediately started attacking Suiryu. When you get hit by one of the enemy's blows in fighting games, the rest of the blows cannot be blocked, because your character writhes in pain for a split second and the second player can start spamming you with blows at that moment.

Suiryu did not try to do anything to block the koala's attacks. But at the same time, the timeframe of the koala's actions is not small, because Suiryu's avatar managed to move in a standing animation. Hence, he simply did not expect such actions. He didn’t react because he didn’t expect this.

And on top of that, King as a player is a comedy character. He could win because it's funny. Well, or because he is a gamer divine level.
Click to expand...
Suiryu should be far faster than King's thumbs tho, and saying he's a comedy character is not exactly good reasoning. It's just a video game that records their movements. Scaling their speed is extremely iffy based on that.

DarthSpiderr said:
First, where did you get the idea that post-G4 Genos is equal to Sonic? Sonic is literally FTE for Genos during their fight. He creates 10 afterimages in his eyes. Human Garou is comparable to Genos. And so on.

Now speaking of this, I doubt Melzagand can scale to Bang in speed.
I mean, Prisoner, Iaian and Metal Bat are much slower than Atomic Samurai and Bang, but they are also faster than Melzagand, who scales to Bang. Bita was slower than Garou. The Prisoner is much slower than the Half-Monster Garou, for whom Darkshine is very fast, although Darkshine was much slower in sparring than Bang. As for Iaian, it might be an outlier.

So we have two options. First, Melzagand scales to Wet Sea King (High Hypersonic+) because he is a dragon. Second, he scales to Bang, because he can be hit, but other S-class heroes do not scale to Melzagand, because this is an outlier.

By the way. Even without this OVA, it is much faster than the Metal Bat. It is much faster than Genos, which is comparable to Garou, which is comparable but still faster than Bat.

But still, given this OVA, he teleports into their eyes on the first floor behind their backs due to his speed.
Click to expand...
Post G4 Genos was literally equal to base sonic up until sonic used his afterimage techniques. Go reread the fight.

I never said Melzalgald scales to bang and the profile does not scale him to bang at all. Melzalgald only upscales from the demon level characters. Iaian in no way should scale to Melzalgald and he doesn't even scale. Not only that, but bang and atomic samurai was blitzing melzalgald. Melzalgald was only alive for so long because of his regen. You seem to think we scale melzalgald to bang and AM when that isn't even true

Half monster Garou is faster than melzalgald. Agaian, I dunno why you're attempting to use him.

No, metal bat is still faster than Sonic. The only version of Genos that scales to Garou is forest fight garou. Metal bat scales above G4 Genos, which could keep up with Base sonic.

As for their last ones, they weren't really in combat and weren't serious at all.

Base sonic in no way scales above MB, Genos and Darkshine.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Sonic didn't use any of his advance techniques against them afaik, he never used ten shadow burial or any of that. Also that is the textbook definition of what an afterimage is, sonic is still just moving so fast he's making afterimages. And I;m not sure why you're trying to make a point about his reaction speed. His reaction speed scales to his movement speed by default.
Click to expand...
This is further proof that the speed at the moment of afterimaging is his usual speed, and not with the help of techniques. If he is not trying to create afterimages with complex movements, then he simply moves as if teleporting.

Emirp sumitpo said:
Suiryu should be far faster than King's thumbs tho, and saying he's a comedy character is not exactly good reasoning. It's just a video game that records their movements. Scaling their speed is extremely iffy based on that.
Click to expand...
Just because of the comedic nature of what is happening, this all happened. Although it is likely that due to attempts to study the enemy at the beginning of the battle, King was able to strike first. As I said, at the beginning of the fight, Suiryu just stood still. King attacked first. But the speed of King's avatar is completely different. And he defeated him because of superior gamer skills and knowledge of combos.

In addition, Garou and Suiryu would be uncomfortable to fight if their avatars were literally behind them at times. But as we can see, they are quite comfortable. The fight fascinated them very much and Garow even wanted to find Suiryu in real life.
Emirp sumitpo said:
Post G4 Genos was literally equal to base sonic up until sonic used his afterimage techniques. Go reread the fight.

I never said Melzalgald scales to bang and the profile does not scale him to bang at all. Melzalgald only upscales from the demon level characters. Iaian in no way should scale to Melzalgald and he doesn't even scale. Not only that, but bang and atomic samurai was blitzing melzalgald. Melzalgald was only alive for so long because of his regen. You seem to think we scale melzalgald to bang and AM when that isn't even true

Half monster Garou is faster than melzalgald. Agaian, I dunno why you're attempting to use him.

No, metal bat is still faster than Sonic. The only version of Genos that scales to Garou is forest fight garou. Metal bat scales above G4 Genos, which could keep up with Base sonic.

As for their last ones, they weren't really in combat and weren't serious at all.

Base sonic in no way scales above MB, Genos and Darkshine.
Click to expand...
Because he was holding back. In the eyes of Flash, Flame and Gali in monster form also moved on FTE, because he was holding back. But at the end of the fight, he already shows that he is capable of being FTE for them when he stops holding back.

You wrote in another discussion that you agree that Melzagand should be scaled to Bang (Because before the difference between them was several times, but now it is hundreds of times and therefore they were not scaled, but now it looks strange). So I thought you were scaling them all down to Bang. My mistake.

But then I have a question, what will be the speed of the first two versions of Boros ... After all, he used to scale to his subordinates. It will be funny if he scales to the Wet Sea King and Orochi is faster than him (Orochi scales to Paul Monster Garow, which is MHS).

I repeat once again, Sonic held back, but when he stopped, he became FTE for Genos several times. All of the characters you listed are faster than each other to an unknown extent, meanwhile Sonic showed that he is FTE squared for Genos.
 
DarthSpiderr said:
This is further proof that the speed at the moment of afterimaging is his usual speed, and not with the help of techniques. If he is not trying to create afterimages with complex movements, then he simply moves as if teleporting.
Click to expand...
No? Before that Genos could keep up with him just fine, but then got blitzed after Sonic used his afterimages techniques. trying to scale Base sonic to his techniques that make him faster is contradictory to the scaling.

DarthSpiderr said:
Just because of the comedic nature of what is happening, this all happened. Although it is likely that due to attempts to study the enemy at the beginning of the battle, King was able to strike first. As I said, at the beginning of the fight, Suiryu just stood still. King attacked first. But the speed of King's avatar is completely different. And he defeated him because of superior gamer skills and knowledge of combos.

In addition, Garou and Suiryu would be uncomfortable to fight if their avatars were literally behind them at times. But as we can see, they are quite comfortable
Click to expand...
This one maybe I can let it slide, the king is still iffy but eh.

DarthSpiderr said:
The fight fascinated them very much and Garow even wanted to find Suiryu in real life.
Click to expand...
Suiryu wanted to find garou, not the other way around.

DarthSpiderr said:
Because he was holding back. In the eyes of Flash, Flame and Gali in monster form also moved on FTE, because he was holding back. But at the end of the fight, he already shows that he is capable of being FTE for them when he stops holding back.

You wrote in another discussion that you agree that Melzagand should be scaled to Bang (Because before the difference between them was several times, but now it is hundreds of times and therefore they were not scaled, but now it looks strange). So I thought you were scaling them all down to Bang. My mistake.

But then I have a question, what will be the speed of the first two versions of Boros ... After all, he used to scale to his subordinates. It will be funny if he scales to the Wet Sea King and Orochi is faster than him (Orochi scales to Paul Monster Garow, which is MHS).

I repeat once again, Sonic held back, but when he stopped, he became FTE for Genos several times. All of the characters you listed are faster than each other to an unknown extent, meanwhile Sonic showed that he is FTE squared for Genos.
Click to expand...
Why would he hold back? There's no reason for him to do so. Sonic is a guy that often goes stright for the kill, and at times during the fight, Genos was pressuring sonic. The fact that Sonic made a technique that was made to make him go faster proves that said technique does not scale to his normal speed

I only stated that maybe a "Likely higher" would suffice, I never said he should straight up scale.

The first two versions of Boros should scale above Gouketsu, who is fastest dragon as of now AFAIK. Like how dragons scale above demons. Possibly relativistic should probably be removed now that it does not scale to Geryu's combat and reaction speeds, unless ya'll want to scale Boros above Geryu's speed and keep possibly relativistic.

Sonic has no reason to hold back, and can you give me timestamps of when sonic blitzez genos. And again, this BoS Genos, not G4 genos. Sonic is faster than BoS Genos but not G4 Genos.
 
Oh yeah forgot about that part, Suiryu did want to find Garou tho, not Garou specifically but the guy in the wolf mask, as Suiryu didn't know he was Garou
 
Or is there some controversy that you need to finish discussing first?
 
I just looked and realized that our discussion about Sonic will be cyclical and eternal. Therefore, it is better to ask the staff members right away.
 
Okay. Please write an explanation of what you need to decide and the arguments for and against.
 
I was pinged in this thread. Sorry for the delay, but it seems to have been resolved now?
 
Well, we resolved some other issues, but DarthSpiderr will post the remaining issues that need to be decided soon, so your help with evaluating that would be appreciated.
 
Spring Mustachio impressed Iaian with his speed and power in the most recent chapter, 146. I might suggest that we scale Spring Mustachio to Iaian's speed tier and change Black Sperm's speed description to "varies" since we see Black Sperm moving on par with Spring and Iaian in this chapter and we have confirmation from Homeless Emperor and Black Sperm that Black Sperm's combat ability decreases as he splits more and more...

so he could be on-par with Atomic before splitting at all, but now that there are tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of clones Black Sperm is closer to Iaian's speed.
 
Huh, that's interesting and pretty neat

And for the record, I'm now neutral on scaling suiryu to garou for speed. I'm not convinced by it but can't really argue against it. AP is still a no and suiryu is going to be downgraded
 
El_Beyonder said:
I have recalculated the DSK speed, it is now 50.45 Mach (High Hypersonic+).
Click to expand...
It turned out great and a little faster than my version, you even considered the timeframe in personnel. Only it is very strange that using the angular size, you and the USk result came out different. But it's worth saying that we tried to calculate its speed by taking the distance from the anime. 7 Machs came out. But we still don't know which option to take. If you are interested, you can join the discussion.
 
Ourosboros said:
Spring Mustachio impressed Iaian with his speed and power in the most recent chapter, 146. I might suggest that we scale Spring Mustachio to Iaian's speed tier and change Black Sperm's speed description to "varies" since we see Black Sperm moving on par with Spring and Iaian in this chapter and we have confirmation from Homeless Emperor and Black Sperm that Black Sperm's combat ability decreases as he splits more and more...

so he could be on-par with Atomic before splitting at all, but now that there are tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of clones Black Sperm is closer to Iaian's speed.
Click to expand...
I agree that we can scale Mustachio to the level of Iaian (At least the attack speed with Tomboy, for sure). But we no longer scale the BS to Atomic Samurai in speed.

The "Varies" idea sounds good to me. But how do you set it up in profile? I have no experience with this, but there is a sandbox (It is not ready yet and many characteristics will change).
 
It's like this: "Varies. Tier to Tier" or like "Varies from Tier to Tier". You can also add specifics
 
DarthSpiderr said:
It turned out great and a little faster than my version, you even considered the timeframe in personnel. Only it is very strange that using the angular size, you and the USk result came out different. But it's worth saying that we tried to calculate its speed by taking the distance from the anime. 7 Machs came out. But we still don't know which option to take. If you are interested, you can join the discussion.
Click to expand...
The form of Angsizing I use is more precise.
 
I think it should be usable. The way it interacts with Flash's hair implies it behaves like lightning, as well as Bomb stating that it was lightning as well
 
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