One Piece Discussion Thread Thirteen Impel Down

[Xulrev]

This being a general discussion thread doesn't give people carte blanche to fabricate things about One Piece, thankfully. And this is nowhere near aggression, it's closer to the unease one feels when witnessing a politician state incorrect things publicly, getting called on it, then proceeding to double down.

Regardless, please don't spread factual inaccuracies about One Piece or its major players, please and thank you, not on general discussion threads, not anywhere on the wiki in fact. And don't presume peoples' mindsets to deflect from their pointing out your inaccuracies, it's not favorable to your position.

Thanks for being understanding here.

 

[KobsterHope07]

@ Celestial Judge - Is that a fact, really? Because I believe you need to reread the war again to brush up on your knowledge.

I don't who this pre-teen that Mihawk was chasing for most of the war. I'm pretty sure there was no 11-12 years old kids during the war.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Sigh.....

This being a general discussion thread doesn't give people carte blanche to fabricate things about One Piece

fab┬Àri┬Àcate

1. invent or concoct (something), typically with deceitful intent.

This would suggest I made something up. I simply stated events that happened in the anime.

Mihawk did chase luffy during most of the war. That was not fabricated.

Shanks did end the war, that was not fabricated.

I'll be waiting on my appology.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

And please don't think i'm trying to debate or prove a point. I could care less about you're guy's opinions. While I am open to listen I could care less because again, no one is debating here. This is a GENERAL DISCUSSION BOARD.

 

[Xulrev]

You shifted goalposts so hard here that you ended up in a whole new continent, I'm almost impressed.

Your claim that Mihawk is fodder is demonstrably false.

Your claim Mihawk is somehow inferior to Shanks is demonstrably false.

Your claim that information from Chapter 96 of a manga somehow doesn't apply to any later chapter at all is demonstrably false.

Your attempt to cop-out by appealing to the type of board doesn't give you open authority to fabricate such claims; you're either trolling and intentionally disrupting a conversation with factual inaccuracies, or incapable of admitting fault. Neither is a good look, and this is precisely why I offered, no fewer than two times, to let you simply move on from the topic.

For someone who doesn't want to debate, you sure are sticking to your paltry line in the sand here, Celestial. And over such a simply-disproven set of points too, I don't get it.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

You shifted goalposts so hard here that you ended up in a whole new continent, I'm almost impressed.
Your claim that Mihawk is fodder is demonstrably false.

Your claim Mihawk is somehow inferior to Shanks is demonstrably false.

Your claim that information from Chapter 96 of a manga somehow doesn't apply to any later chapter at all is demonstrably false.

Your attempt to cop-out by appealing to the type of board doesn't give you open authority to fabricate such claims; you're either trolling and intentionally disrupting a conversation with factual inaccuracies, or incapable of admitting fault. Neither is a good look, and this is precisely why I offered, no fewer than two times, to let you simply move on from the topic.

For someone who doesn't want to debate, you sure are sticking to your paltry line in the sand here, Celestial. And over such a simply-disproven set of points too, I don't get it.

To arguements 1-3 Mihawk had the chance to fight Shanks at a literal war and didn't because it was "out of his scope" I heard nothing of "he has one arm"

Also still looking for that appology.

 

[Xulrev]

@Celestial

Mihawk refused due to not having agreed to fight Shanks; that's simple and straightforward. Earlier in the manga we are shown Mihawk doesn't believe Shanks is even worth a duel due to the loss of an arm. I hope you're aware of these facts and that they do not conflict.

You will receive no apology for the facts I have stated. I insist you cease trolling.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@Celestial
Mihawk refused due to not having agreed to fight Shanks; that's simple and straightforward. Earlier in the manga we are shown Mihawk doesn't believe Shanks is even worth a duel due to the loss of an arm. I hope you're aware of these facts and that they do not conflict.

You will receive no apology for the facts I have stated. I insist you cease trolling.

But I am not trolling. I am going to insist you stop accusing me of trolling as that is a reportable offense. Again you need to calm down this is a General Discussion Board and not a Debate thread.

 

[-BANLK-]

@Celestialjudge Shanks got his arm bitten off by a sea king (The same seaking got oneshot by Luffy later and Mihawk was chasing after a much more powerful Luffy), got panicked when the mountain bandit used a smoke bomb, Ben Beckman the cleaverest guy in the group told the bandit, "You would need a warship to fight us", which would imply you could challege the entire red hair pirates with a single warship. Shanks scared off Blackbeard? lol Akainu did the same thing while being half dead and without having a powerful crew to back up. Also the only reason the marines did not engage the red hair pirates was because Sengoku said the fight was over, all the top tiers of marines except Akainu were fairly uninjured and could fight the red hair pirates if needed, they also have plenty of warships lol. All of this is fact since it is in the manga aswell as in the anime and not fabricated.

 

[Xulrev]

But I am not trolling. I am going to insist you stop accusing me of trolling as that is a reportable offense

You're absolutely free to report me for correcting your willful spreading of misinformation. I wouldn't expect that to go much of anywhere, but I won't deny you your right to try.

Again you need to calm down this is a General Discussion Board and not a Debate thread.

I'm pretty sure I've stated I'm uneasy with your fascination to be unwilling to accept fault for being wrong moreso than anything else. If you interpret being told in simple terms that you're wrong as hostile, that's on you and not relayed by my tone or verbiage in any way, shape, or form. But you really shouldn't hide behind 'but muh General Discussion' as a defense for spouting factual inaccuracies and being unable to own up to them.

As-is, this has likely gone far enough and your argument holds no water. I do believe it'd behoove you to let it drop and the conversation move on, it's getting tiresome at this point.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

You're absolutely free to report me for correcting your willful spreading of misinformation. I wouldn't expect that to go much of anywhere, but I won't deny you your right to try.

I will if I am accused of being a troll once more as it is disrespectful and that type of behavior is not needed here.

I'm pretty sure I've stated I'm uneasy with your fascination to be unwilling to accept fault for being wrong moreso than anything else. If you interpret being told in simple terms that you're wrong as hostile, that's on you and not relayed by my tone or verbiage in any way, shape, or form. But you really shouldn't hide behind 'but muh General Discussion' as a defense for spouting factual inaccuracies and being unable to own up to them.

Also did you know, as a memeber of vsbattles.fandom and a follower of this thread you don't have to respond or interact with me in any shape or form.

As-is, this has likely gone far enough and your argument holds no water. I do believe it'd behoove you to let it drop and the conversation move on, it's getting tiresome at this point.

It was not an arguement in the first place. It was just my opinions and thoughts on the characters. How can you not understand that. I was willing to listen and hear different point of views, but I was not debating whatsoever. I still don't understand why you can't comprehend that.

 

[Damage3245]

Alright guys - can we drop it now?

This is the One Piece discussion thread. Let's talk about something One Piece-related.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Marco imo should be a Yonko in the near future.

 

[-BANLK-]

And Katakuri, after BM gets defeated.

 

[Xulrev]

To your points:

1. I said you're either trolling or willfully spreading misinformation and being unable to own up to that. This still applies as you've refused to budge your stances.

2. I don't have to respond to this thread at all, you're right. But if someone is fabricating falsehoods about a manga I care about, I'm going to smother that so it doesn't spread.

3. It's an argument if you argue your position. That's a simple definition. Two people hashing out their disagreement and differing points is a debate/argument/discussion. It's not a negative thing, it just is.

Instead of assailing the meta-discussion of my comments, can we go back to discussing One Piece or do you wish to further derail a general discussion thread?

 

[Celestial_Judge]

And Buggy

 

[Celestial_Judge]

To your points:
1. I said you're either trolling or willfully spreading misinformation and being unable to own up to that. This still applies as you've refused to budge your stances.

2. I don't have to respond to this thread at all, you're right. But if someone is fabricating falsehoods about a manga I care about, I'm going to smother that so it doesn't spread.

3. It's an argument if you argue your position. That's a simple definition. Two people hashing out their disagreement and differing points is a debate/argument/discussion. It's not a negative thing, it just is.

Instead of assailing the meta-discussion of my comments, can we go back to discussing One Piece or do you wish to further derail a general discussion thread?

Dude you are still going?

 

[Damage3245]

@Celestial Judge; he's clearly not still going since he asked if you guys could go back to discussing One Piece.

As I said up above, let's drop it now.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Would be pretty cool if Luffy's stepdad and real dad had an actual conversation.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

@Celestial Judge; he's clearly not still going since he asked if you guys could go back to discussing One Piece.
As I said up above, let's drop it now.

What are you talking about I literally started talking about Marco and he posted that did you not see that?

 

[Damage3245]

What are you talking about I literally started talking about Marco and he posted that did you not see that?

Yes, and then you responded to him even though you do not want to continue the conversation.

So as I said, let's drop it now.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

What are you talking about I literally started talking about Marco and he posted that did you not see that?

Yes, and then you responded to him even though you do not want to continue the conversation.
So as I said, let's drop it now.

Because he literally kept going after I changed the topic. Tell that to him. I changed the topic.

 

[Damage3245]

Because he literally kept going after I changed the topic. Tell that to him. I changed the topic.

I've already posted several times, directed at both of you, for you guys to drop it.

If you've accepted that the conversation is dropped, please don't respond to this message. Thank you.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Wait is there a page for the Samarui that fought Kaido?

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Because he literally kept going after I changed the topic. Tell that to him. I changed the topic.

I've already posted several times, directed at both of you, for you guys to drop it.
If you've accepted that the conversation is dropped, please don't respond to this message. Thank you.

You only tagged me. It's dropped. Your welcome.

 

[Xulrev]

I still maintain my disagreement with Cin's viewpoint of downgrading Mihawk, primarily due to the facts of:

1. He is objectively the World's Strongest Swordsman, and one of the Yonkou (Shanks) is a swordsman (I ordinarily don't argue based on titles, but considering the fact that this is a legitimately-accepted in-verse thing, I think this one is actually okay)

2. He viewed Shanks as not even worth his time for a duel due to the loss of an arm, and Shanks became a Yonkou after having lost the arm. So he improved in power since then, or was finally recognized as being of that level post-arm-removal. yet Mihawk still didn't view him as worth the time.

As a result, we have Mihawk having had 'legendary' duels with Shanks that shook the grand line (according to Whitebeard) combined with his status as the World's Strongest Swordsman, and not even bothering to fight Shanks due to the arm loss. All in all, that puts him at the very least on Shanks' level, by any reasonable standard, in my view.

I think that gets us back on track, and I'm absolutely down to discuss these ideas further, especially if Cin wants to engage them due to his being the primary dissident against these ideas I'd imagine (as the originator of the downgrade idea)

 

[Damage3245]

@Xulrev; I find myself mostly in agreement for downgrading Mihawk. At least to lower than his current "Likely" rating.

Two of the Yonkou can be considered swordsmen to some extent, with Big Mom and Shanks both using swords, and Whitebeard even using a Meito too as his primary weapon.

Mihawk is definitely not considered to be stronger than both of them in-verse however going by the words of the Five Elders, otherwise he'd be considered a prime canditate to defeat Blackbeard.

So that first line of reasoning doesn't hold up IMO.

As for the 2nd, I don't think we can interpret this solely as Mihawk considering Shanks to be too weak. It might be that he just thinks it isn't honorable to fight a disabled opponent, regardless of that opponents strength, because Shanks won't be able to display the full extent of his swordsmanship with just one arm. That's a possibility at least.

 

[Xulrev]

Why would a solo person be a candidate to fight Blackbeard and his entire crew? The Gorosei mentioned entire crews, unless you unironically believe they meant legitimate individual players soloing the entirety of the Blackbeard pirates? That's an absurd notion imho.

Your posited possibility is indeed just that, possible, but it doesnt seem to jive with what we know of Mihawk. He hunted down a weak arrogant fool who is absolute fodder just to kill time and will take pity on a guy just cuz hes missing an arm? I dont see a merciless killer suddenly changing heart due to loss of limb, ESPECIALLY if, as your idea would make possible, hed be pitying a person SUPERIOR to him by definition if you deny my interp. Those two ideas cant coexist easily or readily, and require a good bit of hope for them to be accurate.

Oh quick edit. Having a sword incidentally doesnt make one a swordsman imho. Utilizing solely a sword for fighting does, thus I wouldnt include Linlin or Newgate personally, whereas Shanks has solely swordplay

 

[LordWhis]

@Xulrev; I find myself mostly in agreement for downgrading Mihawk. At least to lower than his current "Likely" rating.

Two of the Yonkou can be considered swordsmen to some extent, with Big Mom and Shanks both using swords, and Whitebeard even using a Meito too as his primary weapon.

Mihawk is definitely not considered to be stronger than both of them in-verse however going by the words of the Five Elders, otherwise he'd be considered a prime canditate to defeat Blackbeard.

So that first line of reasoning doesn't hold up IMO.

As for the 2nd, I don't think we can interpret this solely as Mihawk considering Shanks to be too weak. It might be that he just thinks it isn't honorable to fight a disabled opponent, regardless of that opponents strength, because Shanks won't be able to display the full extent of his swordsmanship with just one arm. That's a possibility at least.

Mihawk = or even > Shanks > Kaido = Big Mom.

 

[Damage3245]

> Why would a solo person be a candidate to fight Blackbeard and his entire crew?

They didn't seem to be referring to Blackbeard's entire crew, but Blackbeard himself.

And their wording was "Only the remaining four emperors themselves could possibly defeat him... and maybe Marco the Phoenix with Whitebeard's Crew."

The implication being the that Yonkou themselves could take down Blackbeard but Marco would need the backing of the Whitebeard Crew.

 

[-BANLK-]

We should maybe change Mihawk's tier into unknown.

 

[LordWhis]

@damage: 1. That is really grasping

2. They were only referring to pirates, not marines or privateers.

Mihawk is waiting for someone stronger than Shanks to challenge him- indicating he is at least as strong as Shanks if not a little bit stronger. It could even be argued he's a fair bit stronger since he thinks he can beat this challenger who is even stronger than Shanks.

 

[HereComesBigBoi]

yall on dar fra my mand mihaek is the strongezt sworsdman in the world and shanks is a swordman so mibawk is strongest this is canon and rrally simpel

 

[VioIeLFC]

It cannot at all be argued he is a "fair bit" stronger

 

[VioIeLFC]

People taking the Mihawk/Shanks scene too literally, it's just trash talk. You see it so many times in anime, especially between rivals. Those words are empty and obviously don't portray what Mihawk really thinks of shanks, someone he has great respect for

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree with Xul

There is grasping to downgrade Mihawk. Big Mom and WB are definitely not swordsmans ƒÿɃÖàÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å

 

[Peter1129]

I agree that Mihawk should be downgraded, but he should have a "possibly 6-B" with a description that he rivaled Shanks in the past, but it is unknown what level of power Shanks was at the time, given it was before he ascended to being a Yonko.
"At least Low 6-B (Walked away from the battlefield of Marineford with not a scratch on himself despite coming into contact with many notable pirates such as Commanders and Captains of the Whitebeard Alliance who were at least this powerful. He is also hailed as the world's strongest swordsman, implying his supremacy to the likes of Vista and many notable swordsman throughout the world), possibly 6-B (Was once a rival of Shanks, though this was before the latter became a Yonko, thus it is unknown how Mihawk compares to Shanks as of current times, or if he is even a match for him)"

Something to that affect, but more concise is what I'd suggest.

Can't we just go with what Cin proposed and be done witn it?

 

[LordWhis]

@Peter: The fact that Mihawk is waiting for someone who is stronger than Shanks proves he is equal if not above him.

@Viole: The fact that he thinks he can beat this challenger indicates the gap isn't exactly tiny.

@astralking: IMO Prime WB > Mihawk > Shanks = Old WB > Kaido = Big Mom

 

[Peter1129]

Well the problem is he wasn't shown to be Yonko Lvl in the story yet. We've had several statements about him probably being Yonko Lvl but since he hasn't shown it yet so I'd say it's best to just give him a possibly for now.

 

[Dr.Fix]

I agree that Mihawk should be downgraded, but he should have a "possibly 6-B" with a description that he rivaled Shanks in the past, but it is unknown what level of power Shanks was at the time, given it was before he ascended to being a Yonko.
"At least Low 6-B (Walked away from the battlefield of Marineford with not a scratch on himself despite coming into contact with many notable pirates such as Commanders and Captains of the Whitebeard Alliance who were at least this powerful. He is also hailed as the world's strongest swordsman, implying his supremacy to the likes of Vista and many notable swordsman throughout the world), possibly 6-B (Was once a rival of Shanks, though this was before the latter became a Yonko, thus it is unknown how Mihawk compares to Shanks as of current times, or if he is even a match for him)"

Something to that affect, but more concise is what I'd suggest.

Can't we just go with what Cin proposed and be done witn it?

I agree. This is getting ridiculous. Although I strictly think low-6-B fits him best going with feats and not fan-hype, best to just give Xu and others a compromise then continue down this road.