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One Piece - 6-C revision

Gear Second can come into question later, idk if it would be effected or not since it does have scaling toward Fuji and Katakuri, but for the most part since we haven't even covered Gear Second yet it's safe to continue discussing Gear Third and coming to a conclusion on that.
 
@Calaca

Overcoming a burst of blunt force used as a shield, as opposed to overcoming a giant amount of weight weighing down your entire body; do I really need to explain the difference?

At the end of the day, I can consistently rely solely on a signle scan of Luffy failing to overcome Issho's gravity power, and proof that the clash showcases his gravity power absolutely no-selling Gear 3. To attempt and override this factual, objective scan, numerous paragraphs of unrelated argumentation is necessary. No scan can override the objective interaction between the two.

The only fact that is important here is that Luffy cannot overcome Issho's gravity in any way, which is what has the calc'd rating. My point has not even remotely been dismissed or debunked, while Cin's entire OP is negated with a single scan. Relying on dust-up bruises appearing whilst off-screen and trying to force ACTUAL HEADCANON to apply to off-screen fights to justify scaling is absurdity if we give a damn about accuracy.

Headcanon is being used to argue against my argument relying on objective, on-panel feats. That's where we are at
 
The only instance where Luffy was shown being overpowered by Issho's gravity is when he was mid-air (or with a leg in the air but moot difference). This would be an argument if Luffy could fly to overcome the gravity mid-air.

Bruises ain't headcanon. Issho doesn't attack if it's not with gravity-based powers or his sword. Those bruises ain't made by a sword, therefore, they are done through the only other method Issho uses. It's simple reduction.
 
@Calaca; I think that Luffy was only shown to be midair in the anime for that scene if I recall correctly.

He wasn't shown in the manga to be explicitly in the air or majorly off-balance when Issho sent him flying.
 
Yeah that image looks like from Luffy's perspective he's coming down on Fuji in mid air where as Fuji is on the ground, cal is right about this.
 
The Calaca said:
Bruises ain't headcanon. Issho doesn't attack if it's not with gravity-based powers or his sword. Those bruises ain't made by a sword, therefore, they are done through the only other method Issho uses. It's simple reduction.
Click to expand...
Honestly, can you prove he is physically incapable of blunt force strikes? Or prove that his Haki-coated sword clashing against Luffy's armament wouldn't produce bruising? Can you calc how strong such a Haki clash would be?

The answer, to all of these, is: No.

And thus, to try and guess at their answer, is headcanon. It's not 'simple reduction'. It's using what-if scenarios to justify scaling that defies what we are objectively shown on-screen
 
Eminiteable said:
Swords create bruises now.
Click to expand...
Cracker attacks Luffy almost entirely with just sword attacks when he was fighting his Biscuit Knight, and Luffy ends up with plenty of "bruises".
 
Those swords are created from biscuits tho, when Cracker actually used a real sword it cut just fine; throughout all of One Piece (if I'm not mistaken) swords have cut.
 
Damage3245 said:
Cracker attacks Luffy almost entirely with just sword attacks when he was fighting his Biscuit Knight, and Luffy ends up with plenty of "bruises".
Click to expand...
Eeeexactly.

Honestly, most of this thread seems to be people not fully knowing what they're talking about due to lacking contextual knowledge, and making strong assertions of what should and should not scale, all while ignoring a single blatantly objective scan that debunks the entire OP. If your argument relies on ignoring facts that dismiss your point, and you need to try and wordsmith your way around being able to produce counter-evidence: you're probably in the wrong.
 
Eminiteable said:
Those swords are created from biscuits tho, when Cracker actually used a real sword it cut just fine; throughout all of One Piece (if I'm not mistaken) swords have cut.
Click to expand...
They're still sharp. Luffy still has canon feats of getting bruised by bladed weapons hitting his Haki-reinforced skin.

Again, more facts to support my point that the story explicitly shows us on-panel.
 
The single scan that "disproves" the scaling is an argument that you're deliberately stretching to avoid the fact that Luffy was overpowered mid-air by gravity with no support to hold at and prevent that.

Breezes won't move footballs while they are on the ground, immobile, but at free fall the same breeze will effect the ball's trajectory because it's not being held still in the ground. Does this mean the ball is light enough to be blown away by the wind? Heck, no.
 
What? Luffy didn't overcome Issho's defensive gravity, that's the scan I'm using, don't conflate things. Prove he overwhelmed Issho's gravity powers to prove he scales or drop the subject matter. Bring evidence, please, not headcanon or wordsmithing to daintily hop around the issue, this thread has gone too far with ignoring facts.
 
What scan again?

In the same way Luffy couldn't overpower Issho, neither could Issho overpower Luffy at all. THey were both bruised equally, with the disappearing ones too. Issho can use Haki in his gravity as shown with Sabo (unless you want to pull a no no at that too arguing that Sabo is solid despite generating fire).
 
This scan, Calaca: https://i.imgur.com/IMrnwVT.png

He objectively does not scale to the calc'd ability since it no-sells his Gear 3, haki imbued attack.

As to the gravity: you have to argue Logia users can ignore gravity to claim Issho had to use Haki. In which case, I look forward to the CRT granting every single Logia user flight based on ignoring gravity
 
Luffy's using Haki that nulls his elasticity (and that should be added to his profile as a weakness) yet he's unscathed by it. In fact, that scan doesn't show Luffy attacking but blocking. Why in the world would he put his left arm forward in direction to his right arm if it's not to block the sword strike?

Sabo can fly, actually.

Why would Issho use a non-imbued gravity attack when he already knows his opponent is a Logia? Same thing happened with Sabo who was shown bruised, proving that Issho can use Haki in his gravity.
 
Luffy struck Issho here, he called out the strike immediately beforehand.

Sabo has limited flight the way Crocodile does yeah.

Why would we presume Issho can imbue Haki into his gravity without any evidence beyond relying on "yeah Logia users can ignore gravity altogether"
 
I think the Sabo fight is kind of ambiguous. He isn't shown being bruised immediately as a result of Fujitora's gravity wave (in fact Sabo looks fine). He only shows up injured later after they've fought off-screen for a period of time.

It looks to me like he consciously transforms himself into fire after being hit by the gravity wave, not the gravity wave nullified his intangibility.
 
@Xulrev https://v1.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0799-002.png

He didn't tho.

Because I'm not saying that? Issho can imbue Haki in the gravity since Sabo appeared affected by it.

BTW, Cracker's case isn't an argument. You can tell that the blade is wider and he tends to attack with his shield either to slap or crush the enemy while using Haki. Luffy appeared with some bruises but after an off-screen attack touching his head despite being hit with a sword. Either he blocked it with Haki to lessen the damage and get the blunt impact of the sword or Oda just did that to not cut his head in half.
 
@The Calaca & CinCameron20

What are the conclusions so far here?
 
None at the moment. Damage and Xulrev are still disagreeing with the propossed OP. Which is also prone to change as there's a discussion for the 7-A+ calcs and some other calcs that need to be discussed about.
 
Okay. Personally I think that it makes sense if Fujitora and Luffy scale from each other.
 
@Antvasima; I've proposed that this revision be put on hold until the revisions affecting a lot of the mid tier characters can be discussed.
 
Cracker attacks Luffy almost entirely with just sword attacks when he was fighting his Biscuit Knight, and Luffy ends up with plenty of "bruises".

Let's not forget that Cracker uses Shield bashes, too, please.
 
The Calaca said:
None at the moment. Damage and Xulrev are still disagreeing with the propossed OP. Which is also prone to change as there's a discussion for the 7-A+ calcs and some other calcs that need to be discussed about.
Click to expand...
Qawsedf has also stated his agreement with me, and thereby disagreement with the OP
 
Are there any other staff members listed in the One Piece verse page that you can ask to give input?
 
I mean, yeah they were both introduced very close to each other, and the fact that oda used the term "world's strongest creature" it's sort of comparing them from the get go.
 
Antvasima said:
I personally think that makes sense.
Click to expand...
I'd wait to hear the other side before coming to a conclusion. Thread should be up later today.
 
Dr.Fix said:
Alternatively we could scale Zoro, Hawkins, Law, etc to high 7-A since Zoro over powered Issho's gravity.
Click to expand...
Hawkins would have gotten one-shotted if not for his hax. Might as well scale pre skip Hawkins from Kizaru. And law is around his level.
 
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