One Piece - 6-C revision

[Damage3245]

@Eminiteable; Sabo says "I'm not used to these powers yet, I keep dodging everything." I'm pretty sure what he means by that is that he isn't used to the idea of having elemental intangibility available to him, so he keeps dodging attacks even when he doesn't need to.

 

[Eminiteable]

ok? that still means he's dodging everything so it is an automatic response even for a new Logia user.

 

[Damage3245]

I think you misinterpreted what I said. By "dodging" I don't think he's referring to his intangibility.

 

[Eminiteable]

he definitely is referring to it as he just came out of his intangible form.

 

[Damage3245]

We may have to agree to disagree on that point, because his wording definitely doesn't suggest it to me.

 

[Rocker1189]

hmm I think I agree with Damage's interpretation here else I dont think what Sabo said makes that much sense.

 

[Eminiteable]

How? Damage's interpretation is that Sabo is so incompetent that he's just dodging everything normally yet that's shown nowhere. Him not being used to the powers and constantly activating his intangibility does, as it's right after he comes out of his intangible form.

 

[Damage3245]

@Eminiteable; that doesn't make Sabo incompetent. It just shows that he's not used to the mindset of having Logia powers at command.

 

[Rocker1189]

I think it is more like breaking a habit, I would admit I have not caught up to this bit yet (still reading) but I am assuming he got the fruit powers recently, If you are used to a certain way of fighting even if you get an ability that makes that way of fighitng irrelevant it is hard to break the habit. He simply remembered he does not have to after the meteor hit him with no consequences.

 

[Damage3245]

@Rocker1189; my thoughts exactly.

 

[Eminiteable]

the issue is the context; sabo in that period wasn't shown dodging normally(from my memory) and we've only seen him going intangible. Him saying "I'm not used to these powers" suggests the powers aren't under his control(not that he isn't using them) and the fact that he expressed dodging with "keep dodging everything!!!" suggests he's not being that expressive over him dodging as he normally wound.

And again... he literally said this after coming out of intangibility..

 

[Rocker1189]

I mean it could be seen as that but its just my opinion, I have not even caught up yet so I may be wrong.

 

[Stefano4444]

So we're unironically trying to find for 6-C cannonballs to justify Zunesha scaling.

Still better than assume that 9-B attacks can somehow injured a titanic elephant so big to dwarf any mountains on our planet.

 

[Rocker1189]

Still better than assume that 9-B attacks can somehow injured a titanic elephant so big to dwarf any mountains on our planet.

err, not really, you can be hurt by a needle for example but your overall size is far above that of a needle.

 

[Damage3245]

I think we can accept that the cannonballs used against Zunesha are not 9-B, while at the same time accepting that Jack doesn't scale fully to Zunesha's durability just because he wanted to hurt it in weak spots.

We don't rate characters by just what they want to do, usually.

 

[Stefano4444]

Zunesha losing "large" chunks of flesh is wrong. The perspective doesn't show anything as large as you want to suggest it is, and no mention of said injuries after Chopper healed the leg nor a visual indication that such thing happened when the leg got bandaged.

In anycase the point is that using the cannonballs is a shitty argument.

 

[Stefano4444]

err, not really, you can be hurt by a needle for example but your overall size is far above that of a needle.

A needle shouldn't still inflict the same amount of damage that Zunesha had suffer when he was hit by the cannonballs.

 

[Rocker1189]

A needle shouldn't still inflict the same amount of damage that Zunesha had suffer when he was hit by the cannonballs.

But I thought he did not suffer any injuries, also that is becuase needles pierce but dont blow up.

 

[Stefano4444]

I think we can accept that the cannonballs used against Zunesha are not 9-B, while at the same time accepting that Jack doesn't scale fully to Zunesha's durability just because he wanted to hurt it in weak spots.

While he wouldn't fully scale to Zunesha, Jack would still scale to his trunk swing.

And hurt him in the weak spots meant s**t if Jack doesn't have the necessary AP.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Zou's first thought was to attack Jack but needed Momo to tell him so. We also have several tier 6 calcs from him I believe and according to Newtons Third Law he should be exploding from just standing up alone.


With that being said Jack wasn't going to aim at the weak spots of the Elephant, the cannons were aimed at the older more decrepit skin. ( The skin around his legs is visibly in a lot worse condition than the rest of his skin.) either way his durability must scale otherwise he die from standing up.

 

[Damage3245]

While he wouldn't fully scale to Zunesha, Jack would still scale to his trunk swing.

And hurt him in the weak spots meant shit if Jack doesn't have the necessary AP.

I can't agree with Jack fully scaling to the AP of the trunk swing either; he is absolutely tiny compared to the surface area of Zunesha's trunk and he was effectively one-shot by the attack.

 

[Rocker1189]

Did he get struck while it was hitting other things or was he the only object it with the attack because if it is the latter then he should scale to the full thing.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

That would still be a durability feat, hell Fate Servants are 6-C for that sole reason, Gawain took an attack that almost killed him, so if that got accepted I don't see why this shouldn't.

 

[Rocker1189]

I kinda disagree with the gawain thing for multiple reasons tbh. but regardless if he was basically oneshot I dont know if that counts as scaling, did he have injuries?

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Aside from some marks nah, the worst thing this did to him was make him immobile. Also I agree with the Gawain thing but it's accepted and this isn't much different.

 

[Eminiteable]

Him being immobile was due to being a devil fruit eater as well so.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

"At least High 7-A, Possibly 6-C at most."


I feel like this would do a great job at giving all users here a valid compromise given the two sides and their stances.

 

[Damage3245]

@Rocker1189; it struck the ocean and Jack's entire fleet.

And last I checked characters generally don't scale to attacks that one-shot them.

 

[Rocker1189]

^ I can agree with it, since it is honestly a bit ambiguous.

 

[Eminiteable]

I think the final thing to discuss regarding Fujitora scaling (hody and Katakuri scaling can be discussed in a different thread or afterwards) is if Fuji can use haki in his gravity blade attacks.

And I think Cin pretty much cleared up that he can.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker1189; it struck the ocean and Jack's entire fleet.

Oh in which case I dont think it can scale tbh.

 

[Damage3245]

@Eminiteable; Fujitora wasn't visibly using Haki in his attack, and Luffy's Gear 3 doesn't scale to his Ferocious Tiger attack anyway.

Luffy has been shown to be scuffed up in fights even when fighting non-Haki users, so him being "damaged" over the course of Fujitora's fight doesn't mean much.

 

[Eminiteable]

All them points have already been covered: - you can't visibly see haki being used in attacks like that.

- Cin explained why it does.

- Him being scuffed up in fights against non-haki users is irrelevant since he's being scuffed up against a Haki user with consistent showings against DF users.

 

[The_Calaca]

Honestly, I still side with Cin after reading one of his last arguments. Luffy was bruised and those wounds aren't done with a sword.

Let's not forget that Sabo was emanating Fire when the Raging Tiger hit him and he still felt pushed back. If this were one of those cases where his natural reflexes act against his New powers, he'd have dodged the attack and there would be no fire coming out of his body.

@Xulrev Why do you ask for Luffy overpowering the gravity if that's a Lifting Strength feat as you pointed before about Zoro?

 

[Eminiteable]

^ exactly

 

[Damage3245]

I think the root of this issue in the scaling may be solved with a more in-depth look at Luffy's feats Post-Timeskip instead of focusing so much on a single fight.

Right now there's ongoing revisions for Pica's feat which will potentially affect a lot of characters, there's other overlooked feats apparently that need to be investigated, and if Luffy's other ratings are going to be affected then this current revision should be put on hold for now until we get the profiles sorted out.

As a compromise I recommend we just put this on pause until the other revisions are sorted out.

 

[Eminiteable]

The current revisions shouldn't effect this.

 

[Damage3245]

The current revisions shouldn't effect this.

It might, depending on what other characters are changed to. It shouldn't be a problem if this thread was just paused until the other revisions are completed.

 

[Eminiteable]

It wouldn't this involves Gear Third and Fujitora, at best the revisions would effect Base Luffy and Zoro who aren't relevant.

 

[Damage3245]

According to the OP this thread also affects Gear 2 Luffy.