- 1,511
- 126
Ugh. Precog won't work aganist someone with Nigh-Omniscience.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Ness vs Shulk
- Thread starter Kellex
- Start date
-
- Tags
- earthbound ness shulk xenoblade
- Status
- 30,077
- 31,340
Shulk has out smarted mind readers; the Telethia. Monado Purge disabled their ability to read minds. Also, Alvis, who is pretty much the source of the Monado's power, is actually omniscient according to his profile; not Nigh-Omniscient. Shulk could theoretically receive help from him. Which would even the odds.
- 1,511
- 126
First of all, Ness is a FAR better mind-reader then Telethia. Second of all, Alvis interviening is outside help, and Ness' nigh-omnipotence is to the level where the only thing he didn't know was Giygas' weakness.
- 45
- 0
Keep in mind, Zanza (it's not on his profile YET) but could see into the passage of fate (which made him nigh-omniscient) Shulk was still able to out predict him, and have visions...
Also how does Ness's Nigh-Omniscience even work on someone from an outside universe...
Also how does Ness's Nigh-Omniscience even work on someone from an outside universe...
GreyFang82
He/Him- 2,769
- 328
If it's not accepted yet then why should we consider it?
- 1,511
- 126
Seeing the future doesn't make you nigh-omniscent. Besides, it's not on his profile.
- 45
- 0
I'm working on it.
Also Noah, Zanza's visions let him see into the passage of fate (The thing that dictates everything that happens in the universe). Thus he would logically be nigh-omniscent
Also Noah, Zanza's visions let him see into the passage of fate (The thing that dictates everything that happens in the universe). Thus he would logically be nigh-omniscent
- 45
- 0
Anyway.
What does ness have for reality warping??
What does ness have for reality warping??
- 1,511
- 126
He doesn't???Zackaryzac said:
- 45
- 0
Shulk has powerful reality warping.
- 45
- 0
So doesn't that mean shulk whomps.
- 45
- 0
"Shulk rarley uses reality warping and it's against his character"
Actually wrong.
Most of his abilities come from warping reality as it's what the monado does, it alters the flow of time and space/building blocks of the universe(ether).
It's not against his character at all, shulk isn't as moral as you think, he literally set out on his journey for revenge, it's very in character.
Actually wrong.
Most of his abilities come from warping reality as it's what the monado does, it alters the flow of time and space/building blocks of the universe(ether).
It's not against his character at all, shulk isn't as moral as you think, he literally set out on his journey for revenge, it's very in character.
- 45
- 0
If you're trying to tell me shulk hasn't used Reailty warping in fights, you'd be wrong (especially since that's where his vision's come from). He has spared (egil) and tried to spare (Metal Face). But the point is mute, as he still fought them, and defeated them. He has killed, and he will kill if needed.
Not to mention if we're keeping in character Ness is a pacifist right?
Not to mention if we're keeping in character Ness is a pacifist right?
- 406
- 90
- Thread starter
- #58
First of all, Shulk does not have time manipulation. If he were, then it would've been in his profile.
Second of all, if you did play the game throughly, then you should remember that he doesn't want to be a god, or put it simply, fully using reality warping is against his characters
Third of all, he used a PART of reality warping, which was his vision.
And last of all, they're just fighting each other, and Ness has fought innocent people before, but he had to.
Plus I don't want to write another story ever again. Ever.
Second of all, if you did play the game throughly, then you should remember that he doesn't want to be a god, or put it simply, fully using reality warping is against his characters
Third of all, he used a PART of reality warping, which was his vision.
And last of all, they're just fighting each other, and Ness has fought innocent people before, but he had to.
Plus I don't want to write another story ever again. Ever.
- 45
- 0
1. didn't say he has time manipulation, I meant that ether is what makes the building blocks of the universe which should include time and space. "The material and immaterial"
2. I do remember that, I've beaten the game, yes he does not want to become a god, but that doesn't relate to his reality warping, him not wanting to be a god is him saying he doesn't want to control other's lives they should make their own choices. Monado Purge, Speed, Shield etc. are all Reality warping abilities.
3. yes his visions come from warping reality.
4. Okay
2. I do remember that, I've beaten the game, yes he does not want to become a god, but that doesn't relate to his reality warping, him not wanting to be a god is him saying he doesn't want to control other's lives they should make their own choices. Monado Purge, Speed, Shield etc. are all Reality warping abilities.
3. yes his visions come from warping reality.
4. Okay
- 1,511
- 126
Shulk never uses reality warping in character. Show me an instance where he uses reality warping in combat. Monado Purge, Speed, and Shield aren't reality warping. They're just stat amps.
- 406
- 90
- Thread starter
- #62
1. Alright, but I don't see how that's related.
2. It's more than just controling other's lives, but changing the universe as a whole, which he doesn't want to.
And that's not really reality warping, that's stats amp... which Ness can do as well...
3. And it's only a part of it.
2. It's more than just controling other's lives, but changing the universe as a whole, which he doesn't want to.
And that's not really reality warping, that's stats amp... which Ness can do as well...
3. And it's only a part of it.
- 45
- 0
1. The monado bends to shulks will, as stated by Alvis.
2. The monado can effect the material and immaterial, that's where the monado's arts come from, thus Purge Speed etc. are reality warps. Unless you're telling me Sharla and Reyn's bodies instinctivly dodging on their own (As seen in the scene where speed is unlocked) is just a "stat" amp.
3. Shulk's visions ARE part of his reality warping,
4. shulk being able to make the Kanji of "God" appear on the monado lll is a reality warp, he just gave the monado the ability to slay gods which he then used to Slay Zanza (Low 2-C character)(in 1 shot mind you) after that there was no need to reality warp outside of resetting the universe for the benefit of every living thing.
2. The monado can effect the material and immaterial, that's where the monado's arts come from, thus Purge Speed etc. are reality warps. Unless you're telling me Sharla and Reyn's bodies instinctivly dodging on their own (As seen in the scene where speed is unlocked) is just a "stat" amp.
3. Shulk's visions ARE part of his reality warping,
4. shulk being able to make the Kanji of "God" appear on the monado lll is a reality warp, he just gave the monado the ability to slay gods which he then used to Slay Zanza (Low 2-C character)(in 1 shot mind you) after that there was no need to reality warp outside of resetting the universe for the benefit of every living thing.
- 45
- 0
Also if shulk didn't want to change the universe he would have accepted the fate that had befell it and left it stagnat, all he mayneth, and his friends. wanted was a world with no need for gods.
- 406
- 90
- Thread starter
- #67
1. Alright
2. THAT is stat amplification, not reality warping.
3. Exactly, so what's your point?
4. sigh.....
Ness can prevent that from happening using his stats effect on Shulk and Ness can oneshot as well.
When the symbol says "God", it means it can kill gods, just like when the Monado II has a kanji meaning person. There's no proof that the Monado III able to cut through anything. I even checked the game's wiki just to make sure.
Not only that, but Zanza KNEW this symbol before Shulk activated this.
'And no, that's not reality warping, that's just a monado art and I highly doubt Ness is a god. Even it weren't an Monado Art, it's still not considered reality warping.'
Shulk has no powers and is useless without his Monado.
2. THAT is stat amplification, not reality warping.
3. Exactly, so what's your point?
4. sigh.....
Ness can prevent that from happening using his stats effect on Shulk and Ness can oneshot as well.
When the symbol says "God", it means it can kill gods, just like when the Monado II has a kanji meaning person. There's no proof that the Monado III able to cut through anything. I even checked the game's wiki just to make sure.
Not only that, but Zanza KNEW this symbol before Shulk activated this.
'And no, that's not reality warping, that's just a monado art and I highly doubt Ness is a god. Even it weren't an Monado Art, it's still not considered reality warping.'
Shulk has no powers and is useless without his Monado.
- 1,511
- 126
^This.Kellex said:
- 45
- 0
For reason number 2. HE LITERALLY UNLOCKS THESE POWERS THROUGH BENDING REALITY
Zanza didn't know about the symbol before Shulk Activated it(Shulk ruined Zanza's Visions)... He see's the Symbol of God, and he reacts to it.
It can cut through things lesser than God too... Look at the monado ll who has the Kanji of Mortal/Person, it can still cut through non mortal things.
Ness One Shotting is very rare, and you shouldn't use luck in this situation.
Shulk's Monado lll is an extention of himself, it's within him, not to mention with a false monado he could STILL have visions, and was able to trade blows with Zanza.
You're also implying Ness will be hitting shulk in all of these scenario's. You're using in-game mechanics logic. If ness knows almost everything after magicant how come he can still miss attacks????????
Zanza didn't know about the symbol before Shulk Activated it(Shulk ruined Zanza's Visions)... He see's the Symbol of God, and he reacts to it.
It can cut through things lesser than God too... Look at the monado ll who has the Kanji of Mortal/Person, it can still cut through non mortal things.
Ness One Shotting is very rare, and you shouldn't use luck in this situation.
Shulk's Monado lll is an extention of himself, it's within him, not to mention with a false monado he could STILL have visions, and was able to trade blows with Zanza.
You're also implying Ness will be hitting shulk in all of these scenario's. You're using in-game mechanics logic. If ness knows almost everything after magicant how come he can still miss attacks????????
- 45
- 0
Ness's Nigh-Omniscents doesn't make self on it's own going by in game logic as he can still miss attacks (which this logic is used in most of his profile)
Even if this was not the case wouldn't this pertain to ONLY his universe, and not beings from other universes?
The Monado, is what disrupts the flow of ether, (THE BUILDING BLOCKS OF THE UNIVERSE)
The Kanji that appears "GOD" is a result of shulk altering reality (It appears after shulk says he will change their destiny), Zanza did not know of this symbol, all he says is "That symbol" (I like to think Zanza can read)
Speaking of which, Zanza seems to be erased from all existance from this, as he says ALL that he is is fading, "The Memory of a god's existance it is vanishing" So existance erasure perhaps?? May make a thread on that later, either way a Low 2-C being was just one shot.
It seems that the "False Monado" doesn't really count as a monado, as Zanza states "HOW HOW CAN YOU STILL HAVE VISIONS YOU DO NOT POSSESS THE MONADO" Shulk replies that it comes from the bottom of his heart it shows him his enemy and the future he must change. (Again relevant because I still doubt Ness has knowledge on other beings from other universes)
Outside of Ness being lucky enough to one shot shulk (assuming he can touch him) which is very rare, Shulk stomps with his strong reality warping, combat expierence and several defence/buff/debuffs he can use.
After saying this the Monado 3 appears to shulk. (Obvious reality warp)
Even if this was not the case wouldn't this pertain to ONLY his universe, and not beings from other universes?
The Monado, is what disrupts the flow of ether, (THE BUILDING BLOCKS OF THE UNIVERSE)
The Kanji that appears "GOD" is a result of shulk altering reality (It appears after shulk says he will change their destiny), Zanza did not know of this symbol, all he says is "That symbol" (I like to think Zanza can read)
Speaking of which, Zanza seems to be erased from all existance from this, as he says ALL that he is is fading, "The Memory of a god's existance it is vanishing" So existance erasure perhaps?? May make a thread on that later, either way a Low 2-C being was just one shot.
It seems that the "False Monado" doesn't really count as a monado, as Zanza states "HOW HOW CAN YOU STILL HAVE VISIONS YOU DO NOT POSSESS THE MONADO" Shulk replies that it comes from the bottom of his heart it shows him his enemy and the future he must change. (Again relevant because I still doubt Ness has knowledge on other beings from other universes)
Outside of Ness being lucky enough to one shot shulk (assuming he can touch him) which is very rare, Shulk stomps with his strong reality warping, combat expierence and several defence/buff/debuffs he can use.
After saying this the Monado 3 appears to shulk. (Obvious reality warp)
- 406
- 90
- Thread starter
- #71
Yeah, okay, but does it effect others? No.
He does. It was just never mentioned or stated by him, but he recognizes it.
"Ness One Shotting is very rare, and you shouldn't use luck in this situation"
It would still work and still counts.
And WHY do you keep bringing this Zanza up!? Shulk had help to defeat him! (Although Ness had help fighting against Giygas, but it was reasonable.)
I don't see how visions would help him since Ness is Nigh-Omniscience. And why does this even matter? You're getting way off-topic.
What? I didn't imply anything. It's just how Ness' powers are! And you're using in-game logic as well! #s3gt_translate_tooltip_mini { display: none !important; }
He does. It was just never mentioned or stated by him, but he recognizes it.
"Ness One Shotting is very rare, and you shouldn't use luck in this situation"
It would still work and still counts.
And WHY do you keep bringing this Zanza up!? Shulk had help to defeat him! (Although Ness had help fighting against Giygas, but it was reasonable.)
I don't see how visions would help him since Ness is Nigh-Omniscience. And why does this even matter? You're getting way off-topic.
What? I didn't imply anything. It's just how Ness' powers are! And you're using in-game logic as well! #s3gt_translate_tooltip_mini { display: none !important; }
- 45
- 0
Shulk one shot him with the monado lll, i wouldn't call that help.
Yes shulk's abilities effect others lol...
I'm not really using in-game-mechanics outside of mentioning purge's in-game effect. These are all from cutscenes.
He recognizes it BECAUSE HE CAN READ LOL.
Yes shulk's abilities effect others lol...
I'm not really using in-game-mechanics outside of mentioning purge's in-game effect. These are all from cutscenes.
He recognizes it BECAUSE HE CAN READ LOL.
- 45
- 0
How does Ness's Nigh-Omniscience help him when it clearly relates only to beings/things in his own universe?
- 1,511
- 126
Stop. You're points are completly meaningless and have no relevance. You're actually begining to annoy me. Shulk's reality warping is shit, at least the reality warping he uses in character. Stat amping is when you have the ability to raise your stats. That's what the speed and power monado do. Ness missing attacks is GM incarnate. That'd be like me saying Shulk has to wait his turn to attack. It's bullshit. Zanza is completley irrelevent, as Shulk coudn't do it alone. Now, come up with some reasonable points or just leave the thread.Zackaryzac said:
- 45
- 0
Well, i'll do this, I'll finish my run through of Earthbound this week, and come back with my final thoughts, until then I'm done debating for a while since i can't convince you, It would be easier if you played the game
- 45
- 0
Actually last things.
Noah you're rude, and my points make perfect sense, play xenoblade before you make accusations. Don't most of Ness' feats and abilities from his game come from Game Mechanics lmao?
Shulk doesn't even have to wait his turn in XC since it's not turnbased lol.
Zanza is not irrelevant, IN CUTSCENES IT IS VERY CLEAR HIM AND FIORA WERE FIGHTING HIM AND TRADING BLOWS. Shulk ONCE GETTING THE MONADO lll (THE WEAPON WE ARE USING IN THIS DEBATE) ONE SHOT HIM WITH NO HELP.
You're talking shit about game mechanics, but those definitions of speed and "power"(lol) monado are from the game mechanics. IN CUTSCENES they act differently.
Seriously most of the shit from ness' profile comes from IN GAME mechanics.
Also Kellex, i never said he had the ability to one shot, I just said he one shot zanza with the monado lll and erased all that he is from existance.
Noah you're rude, and my points make perfect sense, play xenoblade before you make accusations. Don't most of Ness' feats and abilities from his game come from Game Mechanics lmao?
Shulk doesn't even have to wait his turn in XC since it's not turnbased lol.
Zanza is not irrelevant, IN CUTSCENES IT IS VERY CLEAR HIM AND FIORA WERE FIGHTING HIM AND TRADING BLOWS. Shulk ONCE GETTING THE MONADO lll (THE WEAPON WE ARE USING IN THIS DEBATE) ONE SHOT HIM WITH NO HELP.
You're talking shit about game mechanics, but those definitions of speed and "power"(lol) monado are from the game mechanics. IN CUTSCENES they act differently.
Seriously most of the shit from ness' profile comes from IN GAME mechanics.
Also Kellex, i never said he had the ability to one shot, I just said he one shot zanza with the monado lll and erased all that he is from existance.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
