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Major EarthBound Revisions Part I: Cosmology and Stat Revisions

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Hello everyone. It’s been a while, but the EarthBound CRT is finally complete and ready to roll out. There is quite a lot to go over, so this will have to be split into two parts; Part I will be covering the cosmology, as well as AP and other stat changes, and Part II will be covering all of the ability changes that every character will be receiving. Before we begin, I’d like to thank everyone who contributed to this CRT as this would have been significantly more difficult without your help, as well as all of the supporters of the verse that have been behind us every step of the way. Without further ado, let’s get into Part I.

Contributors: Chrisras, @DarkDragonMedeus, @DatOneWeeb, @GiverOfThePeace, @StrymULTRA, @TheQuirkyBoy, @VileShadows



The Cosmology

The biggest topic to go over in the CRT is cosmology, as it is directly related to the tiering of the verse’s god tiers. Now, there are several different ways we can interpret the cosmology of the verse, and as such, they will be laid out and given explanations.

Level 1 - Alternate Universes
This is the most conservative estimate of the verse’s cosmology and it deals with the number of universes that exist. On the surface, it appears that the series only takes place in a single timeline, with Mother 3 being assumed to take place far in the future. This viewpoint is somewhat supported by the fact that Porky only ever mentions traveling to “different eras” and never directly saying he had gone to other universes, though it is actually easier to infer that parallel universes exist despite this. The main reason this is the case is the existence of Ness. As has already been established, Ness’s consciousness overlapped with the universe itself, and as such he should have the supernatural abilities of everything within the universe as they are all a part of himself. This however is contradicted by the fact that he completely lacks the abilities of the Dark Dragon, a being that is capable of erasing the concept of evil from the world and would easily be able to erase Giygas. If he had these abilities, he would effortlessly wipe out Giygas without the assistance of prayers, though he very obviously can’t as he is hopelessly outclassed and can barely do anything to him. This would seem to infer that the Dark Dragon does not exist in this universe, but rather a separate universe where Mother 3 takes place. Another point to further justify the separation of the Mother 1+2 universe and the Mother 3 universe is the total absence of Ness in Mother 3. Ness is the conscious mind of the universe who manifests a physical avatar of himself to save the world, yet he never reappears in Mother 3 even though the world would’ve desperately needed his help during the events of the game. You could say that Ness’s physical avatar is not immortal and that he died of old age long before the events of Mother 3, though there is no reason that the system of fate protecting the universe wouldn’t allow Ness to be born again in this scenario, especially since Ness with his true powers awakened would effortlessly destroy Porky’s army and stop him for good. The separation of these games into two different universes is supported by the fact that Leder tells Lucas that Porky was “shut out from all other times and spaces”, which in this context would seem to imply that Porky was hopping from world to world and had eventually messed with time so much that he had somehow been banished to one last universe, which makes a bit more sense than him being dumped at a random time in the universe’s history that happens to be long after the events of Mother 2. So with this out of the way, there are two parallel universes that are confirmed to exist, being the Mother 1+2 universe and the Mother 3 universe. While these are the only two universes that have been confirmed, there are more that have been implied to exist due to Porky’s meddling with time travel. As stated earlier, Leder tells Lucas that Porky was shut out from all times and spaces, which would imply he had been hopping between worlds quite a lot. While we can’t pin an exact number on the total, we can at least make some reasonable guesses given a few factors. To start, Porky had become immortal sometime after he had left the world of Mother 1+2, giving him plenty of time to travel to different worlds as well as mess with them. Porky never gives us an exact age for himself, claiming that he doesn’t even know how old he is and that he may 1,000 years old or even be 10,000 years old. If we assume this figure to be a reliable estimate, that would mean Porky had been messing with time for about 1,000 to 10,000 years. As for how this correlates to the number of universes, we must consider that Porky is mentally still a child and would get bored of messing with any individual universe rather quickly, so even assuming that he would spend as much time as 1 year in one is unlikely, meaning there are at least thousands of universes that exist that he has traveled to, if not more. Given these estimations, the appropriate tier to assign to a cosmology of this size would be “At least 2-C, likely 2-B”.

Level 2 - Quantum States
This interpretation of the verse’s cosmology is a bit more expansive and deals with a very specific idea brought up in Mother 2. As I’m sure most people are aware, the supreme being of the Mother series is the Truth of the Universe, a being embodying knowledge and fate that governs reality with its universal system. The important factor to consider here is the very nature of its being. In the original Japanese script of Mother 2, Talah Rama describes the Truth of the Universe as something that travels through time and space “like a grain and like a wave”. This is a direct and obvious reference to a phenomenon in quantum physics known as “wave-particle duality”, in which quantum entities exist as waves of possibility encompassing every state they could be in simultaneously before collapsing down to just one of their single states, in which they become a particle. This mention implies that wave-particle duality is not only a property of physics that applies to the verse, but is integral to its cosmology due to its relation to the Truth of the Universe. As the Truth of the Universe itself is described in part as a wave, this would imply that it simultaneously exists in every possible macrostate that the universe could be in at any given point in time. Regardless of whether these alternate quantum macrostates are physically real or not, they are still being encompassed by the Truth of the Universe and would contribute to its size; if we consider a single macrostate to be analogous to its own timeline, the Truth of the Universe exists across a countless number of possible universes. Because of this, the appropriate tier to assign to the cosmology in this interpretation would be countlessly into 2-B.


Level 3 - Many Worlds Multiverse
This interpretation is very similar to the last one, only instead of the size coming from the possible universal macrostates that the Truth of the Universe encompasses, these possible universes are physically real and exist parallel to one another as alternate timelines. Before Mother 2 was released, a manga was written to serve as promotional material for the game. While its canonicity is never specified, Itoi gave its writer complete freedom in interpreting Mother 2 the way he wanted. The reason why the manga is relevant at all to the cosmology of the verse is the fact that it confirms the existence of the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics, in which every single possibility exists as its own universe. It is directly stated by Jeff that different possible universes exist parallel to each other infinitely, with new worlds constantly being born from every possible different action. The main point of contention with this interpretation of the cosmology is the manga’s canonical status relative to the games, though here we will be assuming that the manga is one of the infinite parallel timelines that exist alongside the games. As such, this would simply warrant a 2-A rating for the cosmology.

The Real World
This is the final step in tiering the verse’s cosmology and will undoubtedly come across as the most controversial one. The Player is an important character within the narrative of the Mother series, playing a major direct role in the story of both Mother 2 and Mother 3. They are the being that controls the protagonists and guides them along their journeys, essentially acting as the catalyst for the system of fate. Their very existence implies that the entire multiverse is simply part of a game due to the Player viewing it as such and seeing the characters and settings as no more than mere pieces of fiction. The player comes from their own world, which we have dubbed the “real world” due to its relationship with the game world, the existence of which is confirmed by the ending of Mother 3 since both the Mother 3 universe and the real world were reset by the Dark Dragon, the Player themself even appearing physically to interact with the characters using an avatar. Itoi further elaborates on this idea in an interview, even stating that the Dark Dragon would have destroyed all of reality, including itself, had it been awakened by Claus, and that because of this there is no way he would be able to write this as a conclusion since it would mean that he too would be destroyed. This interpretation simply runs with the idea that the level of transcendence the real world has over the game world is enough to warrant the equivalent of a dimensional gap, which would land the totality of the cosmology at Low 1-C regardless of what the size of the game world is accepted to be. Of course, this idea will not go uncontested as fiction to reality barriers are quite common in fiction, though it is worth noting that the elements of the real world go beyond simple fourth wall breaking, as the real world itself is a location that has been confirmed to exist within the cosmology and the Player is directly responsible for the defeat of Giygas, something that would’ve been impossible without their intervention.

Scaling to the Characters

So now that we’ve established the cosmology of the verse, it’s time to explain how it scales to the verse’s god tiers.

Truth of the Universe
This one is rather straightforward as the Truth of the Universe encompasses the totality of the cosmology and was unaffected even by the reset of the real world. As such, whatever the accepted model of the verse’s cosmology is will be the tier that we assign.

Ness (Awakened)
Ness is the conscious mind of the Mother 1+2 universe and is the most powerful chosen one in all of reality. After collecting the eight melodies, Ness created his own Magicant, a metaphysical universe made from his own memories. Within his Magicant is the Sea of Eden, a special place said to be filled with the ultimate intelligence, a place where Ness can touch the Truth of the Universe itself for just an instant. After Ness destroys his inner evil, he is able to do just that. Touching the Truth of the Universe allows him to absorb the power of the sanctuaries, unlocking his true power and enlightening him to the fullest extent of his abilities. After this interaction, the entirety of Magicant is then absorbed into his heart. Since the Sea of Eden is filled with the intelligence of the Truth of the Universe, we can infer that Ness absorbed this portion of it alongside the rest of Magicant, which would make the power of the sanctuaries comparable to said portion. Because of this, Ness should receive the same tiering as the Truth of the Universe, albeit to a much lower degree since he possesses only a fraction of its power.

Giygas (Mother 2)
Despite Ness being the most powerful chosen one and the otherwise most powerful psychic in reality, Giygas massively dwarfs him in power. In their fated battle, Ness could barely even scratch Giygas, instead having to rely on the prayers of humanity and even the player themself to bring him down. As such, Giygas will be given the same tier that Ness receives, though to a greater extent due to his sheer superiority over him.


Dark Dragon
The Dark Dragon is the most powerful being in the game world, having the power to not only reset the world of Mother 3 but also reset the real world itself. Whether we accept the real world as being transcendent on a dimensional scale or not, it is still transcendent of the game world in some fashion, which would make resetting it more impressive than resetting even the entire game world. As such, the Dark Dragon is another character whose tier will directly scale to the cosmology of the verse.

The Player
While they don’t currently have a profile, the Player would receive direct scaling from the cosmology since they transcend the game world, viewing it and its content as mere pieces of fiction. They are vastly superior to the likes of Giygas, with their prayers dealing the finishing blow to him when nothing else could, which further supports the idea that they view the game characters as fodder. The only exception to this would be the Dark Dragon as it is capable of resetting the real world that the player inhabits and can affect them with its power. That being said, when the Player receives a profile, their tier will be that of the cosmology itself.

Magicant

We’ve discussed the bulk of the cosmology in the previous section, leaving us with one final part of the cosmology to talk about. This, of course, is the existence of Magicant, which as previously stated is a metaphysical universe that exists within the mind of the user and is created from their memories whenever a special condition is met. Two characters in the series have displayed the ability to create one, those two being Maria in Mother 1 and Ness in Mother 2. Despite this, however, it is implied that Magicant creation is not a unique ability and is innate to human beings. In the Japanese script, when Talah Rama is first met he states that “The truth of the universe travels the cosmos like a grain and like a wave and speaks to the universes known as man”. The main point of interest here is “universes known as man”, which while phrased awkwardly, seems to imply that every human is their own universe in some way, and when you consider the fact that Magicant is a metaphysical universe that acts as an extension of a person’s mind, we can infer that this is an intentional reference and not just some flowery text. Even if we disregard this idea, it’s still reasonable to assume that there are other people out there who may be capable of creating Magicants. The result of this is that each universe has its own collection of Magicants that exist within the minds of its inhabitants. This does not make the destruction of a single timeline higher than Low 2-C however, as the Magicants are not physically linked to their host universe, and would instead be destroyed through a chain reaction.

Maria
Maria is the first of the two characters in the series to have created a Magicant. While what is shown isn’t nearly as expansive as what we see in Ness’s Magicant, Maria’s Magicant is stated to be immeasurable in total area in the Mother Encyclopedia. Since Magicants are established as universal in size in Mother 2, there’s no reason to assume this shouldn’t scale to Maria as well. As such, Maria’s 7-A Magicant tiering will be replaced with a Low 2-C rating. Furthermore, since Magicant creation does not physically scale to the creator, her actual combat stats will simply be listed as 10-C since she is never shown to fight and is physically an old woman, with Low 2-C simply being via Magicant creation.

Ness
Out of the two Magicants that are shown in the series, Ness by far has the more impressive display. We directly see him create Magicant and we know exactly what his required condition was, that being to hear the eight melodies. His Magicant is also very clearly universe-sized, as it contains a starry sky with planets in the background and should be immeasurable in total area like Maria’s. From this information, we can see that his Magicant is a Low 2-C sized metaphysical realm, though beyond its size is what it contains. At the deepest part of his Magicant lies a place called the Sea of Eden, a location which is said to be the one place where the Truth of the Universe can be touched. Since the Truth of the Universe manifests a part of itself within Ness’s Magicant, this would mean it contains a small fraction of a higher tiered entity, though the creation of the Magicant itself would still only be tiered as Low 2-C since it’s unreasonable to assume that Ness created the fraction of the Truth of the Universe that exists within his Magicant, rather than it simply just being there because it’s omnipresent across all of reality.

Humanity
If we accept that all humans have the potential to create a Magicant, this would give every human character (as well as Giygas and his species) the abilities that come with Magicant creation, though they would be listed as “possible” abilities since there is no direct display of Magicant creation from anyone aside from the two characters already listed. This will also be the reason why none of these characters will outright receive a Magicant creation tier, as it would only serve to clutter the profiles. The abilities gained will be discussed in Part II of the CRT if this idea is to be accepted.

Downgrades

Now that we’ve gotten cosmology out of the way, it’s time to discuss the characters who aren’t god tiers and why they’ll be getting downgraded. For context, most characters in the verse are currently Low 7-B due to scaling to Thunder and Storm, which supposedly created a storm that covered multiple countries, including Dalaam and Scaraba. This relied on one of the official newspaper articles made for Mother 2, with the person who originally brought this forth providing a rough translation of it which would seem to imply this. The problem however is that the translation given simply isn’t correct, there is no mention of Thunder and Storm in the article given, nor can we infer that they were the ones causing the disruptions in the weather without proper context. Because of this, the Low 7-B feat is unusable and instead must be replaced with the next highest feat that we can find. Interestingly enough, the replacement feat still comes from Thunder and Storm, though instead of assuming that they created a storm across the country, we’ll be using their storm attack. The full calculation can be seen here, though to briefly summarize, the storm is assumed to be localized within the cave and resulted in a maximum value of 8-B. This is not the end of the tiering revision, however, as this new 8-B rating applies only to the cast in the second half of the game. Since most RPG characters have multiple keys to denote their strength at different points in the journey, this will apply to the Mother series as well. The feat we will use to gauge the chosen four in the first half of the game is the self-destruction of the Territorial Oak. Upon defeat, the Territorial Oak will burst into flames, causing huge amounts of damage to Ness and Paula, the result of such an explosion having been calculated here. While Ness and Paula at this point in the game would be oneshot by this explosion if not for the rolling Hp mechanic, they eventually become strong enough to endure the explosion and can even deal more damage than it with their PSI and eventually their physical attacks, landing Ness, Paula, and Jeff in the early game at 9-A. As some of you may already be aware, there exists a calculation made for Buzz Buzz’s meteor that lands it at 8-A, though the issue with using this for scaling is the fact that it sits far above the consistent lower tier feats from the rest of the game, including the aforementioned 9-A explosion that Ness and Paula can barely even survive, and the storms from Thunder and Storm that are 8-B. On top of that, it’s highly unlikely that Itoi or anyone on the writing team even considered how powerful an impact of that kind would have been, which makes it even more unreasonable to scale a feat of this magnitude to the weakest iteration of Ness when he has no other showings at this level. Because of this, it will be regarded as an outlier and ignored from the scaling chain. The specifics of the scaling will be expanded upon below.

Mother 1 Cast
Since the cast of Mother 1 fight similar enemies to the cast of Mother 2, the two sets of protagonists scale to each other directly. The cast (except for Teddy) begin at 9-A since they all start at level 1 and should be comparable to Ninten, who was able to fight against and defeat Starman Jr. The entire cast ends at 8-B since they are all capable of fighting the Last Starman, a type of Starman that is considerably superior to regular Starmen.

Mother 2 Cast
As was explained prior, the cast of Mother 2 will start at 9-A and reach 8-B in the second half of the game, the exception to this being Poo, who will not have an early game key due to joining in the second half of the game.

Mother 3 Cast
The cast of Mother 3 will be handled slightly differently, as unlike Mother 1, the protagonists don’t fight any enemies in the early game that are comparable to that of previous games, meaning we will need a separate feat for the characters before the time skip happens. While most of the feats prior to Chapter 4 are underwhelming, Kumatora and Salsa are able to fight against and ultimately scrap a pork tank, which should land them somewhere in 9-B since they can damage tank armor, though this will not apply to Lucas and Boney as they never fight before the time skip aside from the former fighting the feat-less Mole Cricket. After the time skip, scaling becomes much more straightforward as the team fights against and defeats Porky, who had previously fought the chosen four of Mother 2, earning an 8-B rating. This rating extends to Claus as well, as he is shown to be superior to Lucas in their final battle and can casually knock out the entire party with his thunderbolts.

Starmen
As the characters who the Starmen scale to are being re-tiered, so will they. Starman Jr. will become 9-A since its PSI is comparable in power to the self-destruction of the Territorial Oak, with this change applying to Buzz Buzz as well since he can easily defeat Starman Jr. with a few hits. Every other Starman variant will become 8-B since they are all fought in the second half of the game, though their keys will be redone to reflect their ranks more accurately and to include the Starman types exclusive to Mother 1. The first key will be Starman Jr. as it is treated as the weakest Starman and is fought at the beginning of the game, regular Starmen and Starmen Super will share a key due to having very similar stats and fighting alongside each other, Blue Starmen and Last Starmen will share a key since they’re both fought at the end of Mother 1 and have similar stats, Starman Deluxe will have its own key since it’s the boss of the Stonehenge Base and can use Starstorm, and the last key will be shared between the Ghost of Starmen and the Final Starmen, as they are fought at the very end of Mother 2 and both have access to Starstorm Omega.

Porky
Porky will be changed a bit more than the other characters that scale to the Mother 2 cast. Currently, he only has one tier per key, though this doesn’t properly represent the fact that Porky only fights in his mechs and never fights on his own. Because of this, Porky will receive a new tier for both of his keys, being placed at Unknown in Mother 2 since he is never shown to fight by himself and 10-C in Mother 3 since he’s physically a weak, old man that can’t move on his own. Of course, his mech tiering for both keys will be placed at 8-B as his Mother 2 mech directly fought the cast of that game, and his Mother 3 mech should be comparable in strength, if not superior.

Giygas (Mother 1)
The changes made to Giygas will be made completely independently from the prior scaling. His tier will be changed to “At least 7-C” rather than having him massively upscale from the cast of Mother 1 since he casually created a massive dark cloud around Mt. Itoi when he arrived on Earth. This is further supported by the fact that Giygas compares Ninten’s power to that of a mere insect and can’t even be scratched by his attacks, who as previously established is above baseline 8-B. This new rating however is just where we can concretely place him, as an argument can be made for a higher tier. Maria claims that no weapon is capable of harming Giygas, and while this could be referring to the weapons that the Mother 1 cast is capable of using, it is entirely possible that Maria is referring to all weapons known to mankind. Considering the fact that scientific figures such as Einstein and Heisenberg exist within the world of Mother, it can be reasonably assumed that Mother draws parallels from the real world, which means that weapons such as nuclear bombs should be something that humanity has access to. Because of Maria’s statement, this would justify a “likely 7-A” rating for Giygas as it is unlikely he would be harmed by even the most powerful weapons humanity has access to.

Other Stat Revisions

Playable Characters
  • Travel Speed: Currently the playable characters are listed as having Superhuman speed since the Mother 2 cast can outrun grizzly bears on the overworld. This reasoning is fine, though a higher rating can be argued based on a different feat. There is a sign in Mother 1 that says that the zoo is 700 meters away from it. At full running speed, Ninten is able to reach the entrance of the zoo in about 13 seconds. While this could be chalked up to map scaling weirdness, the proposed upgrade from this would put all of the playable characters at Subsonic since they should all be roughly comparable to one another.
  • Combat Speed: Currently the playable characters and the characters that scale to them are listed at Speed of Light since Lucas can dodge light beams from the K9000. This feat comes at the very end of Mother 3, meaning that this speed rating should be the cap for these characters, though the issue is that lightspeed feats exist as early as before the second sanctuary in Mother 2. Upon arriving in Peaceful Rest Valley, Ness encounters two new enemies, the Li’l UFO and the Spinning Robo. Both of these enemies are capable of firing laser beams as standard attack and Ness can dodge them. As nothing contradicts these lasers behaving as real lasers, this would put the early game cast at Speed of Light and would bump up the endgame casts to FTL since lightspeed is a single value and the characters get faster as the game progresses. This will definitely be a point of contention since we don’t visually see the laser or the dodge happening due to the way Mother 2’s fights are animated. If this doesn’t get accepted, the endgame casts will remain at Speed of Light and the early game casts will be downgraded to whatever the accepted end for the lasers would be, though they should be no lower than their travel speed.
  • Lifting Strength: As the playable characters will be receiving two keys, their late-game keys can stay at Class 5 since everyone should be physically comparable to one another, though the early game keys will be listed as Unknown since they have no lifting feats. It’s possible that this could be higher through PK Starstorm, as it is described as a technique that “shakes off the stars”. If one wants to interpret this as the user pulling down meteorites from the upper atmosphere of the planet to attack, this would attach a “possibly Higher” rating via telekinesis to characters who can use Starstorm since the size and mass of the meteorites would be unknown.
  • Range: Currently the playable characters have Hundreds of Meters due to the psychic characters using PSI such as PK Thunder and Jeff using guns as his primary weapon. This by itself is fine, though PK Starstorm is described as a technique that “shakes off the stars”. If one wants to interpret this as the user pulling down meteorites from the upper atmosphere of the planet to attack, this would attach a “possibly Higher” rating to characters who can use Starstorm. Paula specifically should receive a higher rating for her Prayer ability since her calls can reach the real world, which exists above the game world. Because of this, the Pray ability’s range would be listed as whatever the accepted size of the cosmology is.
  • Intelligence: Currently the playable characters of every game have Gifted intelligence (with the exception of Jeff, who is listed as a Genius), however, this is an underestimation given several factors. Characters such as Ninten and Ness are able to become masters of PSI with no formal training, despite the fact that performing high-level PSI requires a high level of mental acuity. This can be seen when the Star Master mentions to Poo that he wanted to teach him PK Starstorm but is still learning himself, describing the process as “reaching a higher level of intelligence”. Of course, Poo eventually learns PK Starstorm after a brief period of training, even though he has the lowest IQ growth in the game. More evidence linking intelligence to the potency of PSI is Ness becoming the most powerful psychic in the series (aside from Giygas) after touching the Truth of the Universe and gaining its ultimate intelligence. Additionally, during the tea break scene, Ness is told that his inborn intelligence is part of the reason he made it so far in his journey. He is naturally the leader of the chosen four, with his judgment overriding that of the other members, despite Paula having a higher IQ stat and Jeff being a genius. With this all in mind, almost all playable characters should have their intelligence increased so that they are rated at Genius. Jeff himself should be rated even higher since he is treated as a genius even relative to the other characters, and he is able to create all sorts of complicated gadgets out of broken everyday items such as a broken pipe, a broken harmonica, and a broken trumpet. Because of this, as well as being the son of Dr. Andonuts, Jeff should be rated as an Extraordinary Genius.

Starmen
  • Combat Speed: Should be comparable to the playable cast, putting Starman Jr. at Speed of Light and the rest of the Starmen at FTL.
  • Range: Their beams should be rated as Hundreds of Meters due to being comparable to Jeff’s guns, as well as having comparable PSI to the playable characters. This would also mean that the Starmen capable of using PK Starstorm would receive a “possibly Higher” extension if this is accepted for the playable PK Starstorm users.
  • Intelligence: Should scale to that of the playable characters since the highest-ranking Starmen are capable of using PK Starstorm, which has already been stated to only be learnable after a higher level of intelligence is reached. To support this, the Starman were created by Giygas and his race directly, a race of powerful PSI users that possess intelligence far beyond that of humanity.

Maria
  • Reaction Speed: While Maria’s speed is Unknown, her reaction speed should scale to that of the Mother 1 cast since she can perceive their battle against Giygas.
  • Lifting Strength: As Maria is physically an old woman, her lifting strength should be Below Average Human.
  • Striking Strength: As Maria is physically an old woman, her striking strength should be Below Average Human Class.
  • Range: Maria’s range is currently listed as Universal for being able to “reach Ninten from across the universe”, though this is a misconception as her Magicant is not physically part of the universe. Instead, she will have Low Multiversal range due to the item keeper being able to send objects from her Magicant to Ninten’s house in the physical universe, as well as it being implied that she brought people from the physical universe into her Magicant.
  • Creations: Maria’s Magicant is filled with enemies that can fight the cast during the first half of the game. In addition to this, it also contains the Dragon that guards the first melody, which can only be fought at a certain level. Because of this, her creations will range from 9-A to 8-B in attack potency and durability, with their speed ranging from Speed of Light to FTL.

Ness (Awakened)
  • Age: Ness is currently listed as 12-13 based on his officially stated ages. This is fine of course, though this ignores the fact that the real Ness is the universe’s consciousness. As such, his age should be listed as Immeasurable, with his current age being attributed to his physical avatar.
  • Speed: Currently Ness is listed as simply Omnipresent due to his consciousness existing throughout the universe. While this is true, Ness uses a physical avatar to interact with the world, his body itself not possessing omnipresence. As such, his speed rating should be changed to reflect this, with his avatar having “At least FTL reactions and combat speed” due to being immensely superior to the rest of the characters to an unknown degree while specifying that his consciousness is Omnipresent.
  • Lifting Strength: As Ness’s true form is that of the entire universe, his telekinesis should be Immeasurable in strength.
  • Striking Strength: There is absolutely no reason for Ness’s striking strength to be currently listed as Unknown since he mainly relies on physical attacks in battle. As such, this will simply be upgraded to scale to his tier.
  • Range: Ness’s current range is simply listed as Universal+ due to being the conscious mind of the universe, though this should only apply to PSI. His standard range with weapons for his avatar should be Extended Melee. In addition to this, Ness is able to transfer items between both his Magicant and the physical universe by talking to Tracy, giving him Low Multiversal range via his Magicant abilities. It’s also possible that Ness is able to bring people from the physical universe into his Magicant as the Escargo Express can deliver items to him, while being further supported by the fact that Maria is shown to have this ability as well. Ness is also able to interact with the Truth of the Universe by touching it and absorbing a part of itself into him. Since the Truth of the Universe is a being that transcends the entirety of the game world, Ness’s range specifically for his ability to interact with conceptual entities would be listed at the accepted size of the cosmology. As was established before, the Pray ability would also have this level of range due to its ability to reach the real world, and since Ness possesses the ultimate intelligence, he should have access to the Pray ability as well since it is treated as PSI.

Giygas (Mother 1)
  • Speed: Should scale far above the Mother 1 cast. If both speed changes for the playable characters are accepted, this would give Giygas “At least Subsonic travel speed with at least FTL reactions and combat speed”.
  • Range: Currently Giygas has Planetary range due to corrupting living beings across the entire planet. While this is true of the range his passive influence has, his normal offensive PSI should be listed as “At least Hundreds of Meters, possibly Higher” due to being vastly more powerful and advanced than every other psychic in the series other than awakened Ness and his own abstract form. If we are to accept the idea that every human can create a Magicant, Giygas should have “Low Multiversal, possibly Multiversal” appended to the range of his influence through a chain reaction since manipulating a person’s mind would consequently manipulate their Magicants, which we can see the results of since he can manipulate the enemies in her Magicant.
  • Intelligence: Currently Giygas is listed as a Genius beyond human comprehension due to being vastly superior to all of humanity. This is true, though the current profile does not elaborate on this at all, and a standard Genius rating severely undersells what Giygas is truly capable of. As I already stated, Giygas and his race have technology that far surpasses what humanity is capable of, which would include the inventions of Dr. Andonuts. Dr. Andonuts has created the Phase Distorter, a device that is capable of time travel, as well as the Absolutely Safe Capsule, the pinnacle of human invention that allows the user to withstand absolutely anything, including the abilities of the Dark Dragon which can reset the real world. This is further supported by the fact that Itoi stated in an interview that Porky was still trapped in the capsule after the end of the game when the world had been reset and would continue to exist forever, even after the Earth is swallowed by the sun in 5.5 billion years. Beyond being superior to humanity, his race has powerful technology of its own. Their ships are capable of crossing the universe in short time periods, which we know both because they are driven by galactic conquest and because George was banished to the ends of the universe after he betrayed them. They also have the ability to travel through time using technology since Giygas asks the Apple of Enlightenment if going back in time and eliminating the chosen four is something that he can do. It should also be worth noting that this time travel technology should be superior to that of the Phase Distorter since there are no implications of it destroying Giygas’s body, and Porky later uses it himself and only suffers distortions to his body (that being the blue skin) rather than total annihilation. Aside from this, it’s implied that their species created both the Apple of Enlightenment and the Devil’s Machine, the former of which being a device that is capable of telling the future through its prophecies (though it cannot prophesize the results of temporal interference), and the latter of which being a machine that can contain Giygas in his abstract form, which at that point has become an entire dimension of darkness that passively erases everything, while also being able to stabilize both his power and his mind. Because of these massive technological feats, Giygas should be listed as a Super Genius for being able to create such powerful reality-altering devices, the most impressive of which can even endure the total reset or destruction of reality.

Giygas (Mother 2)
  • Age: Giygas currently has his age listed as inapplicable due to lacking a physical body. This of course is true, though since Giygas himself transcends time, it would be more accurate to list it as Immeasurable akin to Ness.
  • Gender: Giygas’s gender is currently listed as inapplicable due to becoming an abstract conceptual being devoid of any physicality. While technically true, this isn’t necessary to have on the page since Giygas is always treated as a male, with everyone referring to him using male pronouns. As such, his gender should simply be male for both incarnations.
  • Lifting Strength: Since his telekinesis should be vastly superior to that of Ness, his lifting strength should be Immeasurable.
  • Range: Giygas currently has Universal+ range due to being able to affect the entire timeline of Mother 2. This is true in regards to the range of his PSI since he should be comparable to Ness, though the range of his passive influence should be higher. Giygas himself is his own universe (albeit an abstract, non-physical one), being described by Porky as a “bizarre dimension” of complete darkness. Since his range encompasses both the entirety of himself and the main timeline, this already puts his range at baseline Low Multiversal. In addition to this, he is shown to be capable of affecting Ness’s Magicant, as he can influence the enemies within it and holds control over the evil part of Ness, that being Ness’s Nightmare (and unlike his Mother 1 incarnation, this isn’t done via chain reaction since Ness resists his influence). At the bare minimum, this would allow his range to affect up to 3 universes, though if we accept the idea that all humans are capable of creating Magicants, this number could be much higher as there would be an unknown number of Magicants that exist in the universe at any given point in time. Beyond the range of his standard abilities, Giygas should also receive a higher rating specifically for his ability to interact with conceptual beings, as he is able to prevent Ness from touching the Truth of the Universe until his nightmare was destroyed, with this rating being listed as the accepted size of the cosmology.
  • Intelligence: Should scale to his Mother 1 incarnation while sealed since his mind is kept stable by the Devil’s Machine, being listed as a Super Genius.

Dark Dragon
  • Lifting Strength: The Dark Dragon is listed as having Immeasurable lifting strength, though this isn’t justifiable since it is not a higher dimensional being and never uses physical strength on that scale. The proposed change is that either the Dark Dragon receives the strength tier necessary for it to lift itself from underneath the Nowhere Islands upon awakening or have it simply listed as Unknown.
  • Range: The Dark Dragon’s range is currently listed as Universal+ due to being able to reset the universe, though as we’ve established earlier, it reset the real world as well. This would increase its range to that of the cosmology’s accepted size.

Porky
  • Durability: Rather than having an entire key for the Absolutely Safe Capsule, it should simply be listed under his durability in his Mother 3 key. Additionally, it would be upgraded from its current rating of Universe level+ to whatever rating is accepted for the attack potency of the Dark Dragon due to withstanding its ability to reset or destroy reality.
  • Speed: Should be Average Human in Mother 2 and Immobile in Mother 3 normally, with the speed of his mech scaling to that of the chosen four, which would upgrade his travel speed to Subsonic and his reactions and combat speed to FTL.
  • Lifting Strength: Should be Unknown in Mother 2 and Below Average Human in Mother 3 physically with Superhuman lifting strength in his mech.
  • Striking Strength; Should be Unknown in Mother 2 and Below Average Human Class physically with City Block Class striking strength in his mech.
  • Range: Currently, Porky’s range is listed as Extended Melee to Hundreds of Meters. This should be changed in a few ways. To start, Porky does not use ranged attacks in Mother 2 other than discharging a stinky gas, which we wouldn’t be able to assign a meaningful range to, setting Mother 2 Porky at Extended Melee only. Mother 3 Porky can have Hundreds of Meters in his range since by then he is able to use PSI, though this should be specified in his Mother 3 key so that it appears as “Extended Melee with physical attacks, Hundreds of Meters with PSI”. In addition to this, Porky has the ability to travel between universes as was established in the cosmology section. This should give him a higher range specifically for his dimensional traveling, which would be set at whatever the accepted size is for the game world.
 
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1-is that manga scan even canon? I dont know about the verse.
2-the scan say that the parallel universes are constantly being born and exist parallel to each other infinitely, I'm iffy with it being 2-A, it sounds more like ad infinitum 2-B
 
1-is that manga scan even canon? I dont know about the verse.
2-the scan say that the parallel universes are constantly being born and exist parallel to each other infinitely, I'm iffy with it being 2-A, it sounds more like ad infinitum 2-B
1. It's directly explained in the CRT why the manga's canon.
2. Ad infinitium would be universes are born forever, what he's essentially saying is those universes already exists and they're parallel infinitely.
 
1. It's directly explained in the CRT why the manga's canon.
2. Ad infinitium would be universes are born forever, what he's essentially saying is those universes already exists and they're parallel infinitely.
The scan says that the universes are being born infinitely, not that they already exist
Also, the CRT doesnt explain why manga is canon, it just says that the author give the freedom to make the manga, where is it stated to be canon?
 
Holy moly I thought that Earthbound getting a CRT was just a huge meme. But now, now that I can finally see this CRT with my bare eyes, it's... it's majestic...
 
2-B sounds fine. Low 1-C kinda seems fine too.

But 2-A has a problem. MWI is not 2-A inherently (rather, it is 2-B) unless the verse is stated to have infinite possibilities (since each possibility gives birth to a new timeline)

Infinitely growing is Ad-infinitum, which is also 2-B
 
The scan says that the universes are being born infinitely, not that they already exist
No what they said was the universes are being born but the they're infintely parallel to each other. Also yes universes are constantyl born in an infinite sized universe because infinity goes on forever.
 
2-B sounds fine. Low 1-C kinda seems fine too.

But 2-A has a problem. MWI is not 2-A inherently (rather, it is 2-B) unless the verse is stated to have infinite possibilities (since each possibility gives birth to a new timeline)

Infinitely growing is Ad-infinitum, which is also 2-B
Check the scan again yes universes are there being born but they exist parallel to each other infinitely.
 
No what they said was the universes are being born but the they're infintely parallel to each other. Also yes universes are constantyl born in an infinite sized universe because infinity goes on forever.
this context sounds more like ad infinitum, because the fact that they are infinitely being born supports the 2-B rating, and being infinitely parallel to others sounds more like it always being parallel, despite the number that its increasing
 
Screenshot_20210501-010318.png

I will leave this here if someone didn't read the scan
 
this context sounds more like ad infinitum, because the fact that they are infinitely being born supports the 2-B rating, and being infinitely parallel to others sounds more like it always being parallel, despite the number that its increasing
The context does not support that, I already explained the sentence structure you happened to randomly assume it said universes are born infinitely. "Sounds more like" isn't an argument, that's you randomly interpreting a statement that isn't there.
 
this context sounds more like ad infinitum, because the fact that they are infinitely being born supports the 2-B rating, and being infinitely parallel to others sounds more like it always being parallel, despite the number that its increasing
“Such differing worlds are constantly being born, and they exist parallel to each other infinitely.”

The part about them being born and mentioning infinitely are separated in the sentence. The first part is about how they're born while the second says they just exist next to each infinitely. If you have an infinite number of objects parallel to each other, you have infinite objects. The onus is on you to prove it only means diverging to infinity because that's not what the text says in this scan.
 
The context does not support that, I already explained the sentence structure you happened to randomly assume it said universes are born infinitely. "Sounds more like" isn't an argument, that's you randomly interpreting a statement that isn't there.
I'm literally interpreting the statement that is in the scan
 
Please, for the sake of this entire thread and peoples patience, I urge you to read the arguments that are being proposed carefully and throughly. Skimming through the arguments will do you no good at all. And definitely try to stay positive throughout this thread, it wouldn’t be cool to have aggressive-natured arguments like “this is all wank! I disagree lol” and what not.
 
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