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Xenoblade Chronicles (Series) CRT: Lifting Strength Revisions

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CloverDragon03

CloverDragon03

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So I was doing some poking around at Xenoblade cutscenes and the like, and I noticed something pretty huge. Here's what I found:

Essentially, A is currently scaled to Immeasurable. The reasoning is all well and good (once it's actually added to Alvis's profile because for some reason no one did so), no changes needed there. The main thing I'd like to touch on is the ramifications this has on other characters, which have not been touched on. As can be seen here, we see some pretty interesting stuff:
  • N can parry A's strikes with his own
  • Nikol can hold his ground against numerous strikes from N
  • Shulk can clash with N and send him flying
  • Rex and Glimmer can simultaneously clash with N
  • Matthew can clash with N
So overall, these characters are all pretty relative to one another, able to exert equal amounts of force in their collisions, which makes them all qualify for Immeasurable Lifting Strength. This seems pretty clear cut to me, though I'd also like to touch on other characters that should get the Immeasurable Lifting Strength rating, all of whom I will list reasons for:
  • Pneuma (plus Master Driver Rex): Superior to Future Redeemed Rex and gets her power from the same Conduit that empowers Alvis
  • Malos (piloting Artifice Aion): Gets his power from the same Conduit that empowers Alvis
  • Z: Superior to N
  • Late/End Game Xenoblade 3 Party: Physically contended with N (Noah and Mio's Interlinked form in particular physically overwhelmed him)
    • Possibly Early/Mid Game Xenoblade 3 Party: Via scaling to Future Redeemed Shulk and Ino, who is superior to Poppi, who would scale for reasons mentioned below (though this is admittedly not as solid as it was for Attack Potency)
      • If this is accepted, M would scale as well.
  • True Form Jin: Physically clashed with Master Driver Rex
  • Blade Eater Amalthus: Sent Master Driver Rex and Pneuma flying
  • End Game Xenoblade 2 Party: Contended with the likes of True Form Jin, Blade Eater Amalthus, and Artifice Aion
  • Monado III Shulk: Superior to his Future Redeemed self due to his godhood, and gets his power from the same Conduit that empowers Alvis
  • Zanza: Though inferior, he held his ground against repeated attacks from Monado III Shulk, and gets his power from the same Conduit that empowers Alvis
  • Meyneth: Consistently traded blows with Zanza
  • The Architect: Comparable to Zanza as his other half
  • End Game Xenoblade 1 Party (plus Replica Monado Shulk): Able to contend with Zanza
  • Dickson: Can physically overpower the Xenoblade 1 party
  • High-End Telethia: Can physically overpower the Xenoblade 1 Party
So yeah, potentially massive lifting strength buffs incoming. I'd like to get you guys' thoughts on this.

Note: If you generally agree with the thread, please let me know whether or not you agree with the early/mid game Xenoblade 3 party scaling to this.

Agree: 6 (@DarkDragonMedeus [agrees with early game XB3 party scaling], @Spinoirr [disagrees with early game XB3 party scaling], @SilentLyfe [neutral on early game XB3 party scaling], @Kachon123 [agrees with early game XB3 party scaling], @Lonkitt [agrees with early game XB3 party scaling], @DarkGrath)
Disagree:
Neutral: 1 (@Bobsican)
 
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But I don't agree with early game scaling to this as this seems like something only for the High tiers
 
Actually, Early game keys for XB3 cast are about to get nuked as god tier scaling starts surprisingly early given the existence of Ino + how quickly one can access Land of Challenge fight alongside FR Shulk and Rex.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Actually, Early game keys for XB3 cast are about to get nuked as god tier scaling starts surprisingly early given the existence of Ino + how quickly one can access Land of Challenge fight alongside FR Shulk and Rex.
Click to expand...
What do you think for now about them scaling now, though? Since the early game keys being removed hasn't been implemented yet
 
Tbf, that should have been taken care of before this thread was made given the circumstances.
 
I was never even made aware that this was something potentially happening at all until just now. Is there even a thread currently posted to remove the early game keys?
 
There is, just need to dig through history and bump it.

Edit: Actually wait a sec, actually it was already applied. They're Tier 1 outright now just still has multiple keys that don't seem all too necessary anymore. But either way, I still agree with this and think keys being merged to an extent might be handled later.
 
Looks good, though neutral on early game scaling. Although if early game is getting nuked then it doesn't really matter.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
There is, just need to dig through history and bump it.

Edit: Actually wait a sec, actually it was already applied. They're Tier 1 outright now just still has multiple keys that don't seem all too necessary anymore. But either way, I still agree with this and think keys being merged to an extent might be handled later.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I didn't remove any keys, I just made their early game key Low 1-C because they're lower on the scaling chain early-game compared to late-game
 
Bobsican said:
Holding back physical attacks isn't usable for LS, I'm aware it's wack, but that's the site standard.
Click to expand...
That's more so talking about different scaling methods; it's more so we cannot calc stack Character A's striking strength to calculated Character B's LS. And especially High 3-A to get Infinite LS or Low 2-C and above to get Immeasurable. But if Character A already has Immeasurable LS for other reasons and Character B can match them and muscular pushing/pulling debates, I think that's a different story.
 
To parrot what DDM was saying, that's just more a matter of any High 3-A character having Infinite LS or any Low 2-C and up character having Immeasurable LS, which is not the case here. Rather, A has her own reasoning for Immeasurable LS
 
Actually I think some characters including Nikol shouldn't get it, his feat is blocking attacks from N using his weapon, which isn't lifting because it doesn't use muscle strength and is just a durability feat for the Variable Backpack. Similarly, Glimmer shouldn't get this LS upgrade because getting your attacks blocked by N and then overpowered by him is not a lifting strength feat but a limitation for both of them. I don't remember if Matthew actually clashes evenly with N, all that happened in the Prison Island fight was him getting his strikes effortlessly blocked by N's sword even though he had help from A. It looks like Shulk's feat of overpowering N could be lifting strength though
 
Hypertornado099 said:
Actually I think some characters including Nikol shouldn't get it, his feat is blocking attacks from N using his weapon, which isn't lifting because it doesn't use muscle strength and is just a durability feat for the Variable Backpack.
Click to expand...
If he didn't have comparable LS, he'd have been flung back by the first hit. Holding your ground against physical attacks is a LS feat
Hypertornado099 said:
Similarly, Glimmer shouldn't get this LS upgrade because getting your attacks blocked by N and then overpowered by him is not a lifting strength feat but a limitation for both of them.
Click to expand...
She and Rex weren't overpowered in the clash, you can see that he actually kicked off of Glimmer's weapon to escape the clash.
Hypertornado099 said:
I don't remember if Matthew actually clashes evenly with N, all that happened in the Prison Island fight was him getting his strikes effortlessly blocked by N's sword even though he had help from A.
Click to expand...
He does in the very last clash. After the flashback via the memory from Origin, you can see that the clash sent them both back, suggesting that they went even
 
Uh... I found another issue...
CloverDragon03 said:
So I was doing some poking around at Xenoblade cutscenes and the like, and I noticed something pretty huge. Here's what I found:

Essentially, A is currently scaled to Immeasurable. The reasoning is all well and good, no changes needed there.
Click to expand...

Lifting Strength: Immeasurable (Should be comparable to their original self)
Click to expand...

Then I check here and here, and there's no reasoning at all, so uh...
 
Alvis is an omnipresent being native to a 6-D realm. And also, N is able to carry his sword even within the R>F realm that is Z's amphitheater; so those are consistent measurings.
 
Bobsican said:
That may be debatable depending on how this thread goes
Click to expand...
It's mostly Low 2-C levels of it that is the main argument. But it at worst only concerns that reason. Z's Amphitheater example still holds up. I am paraphrasing Ultima Reality, but for the R > F realms that are Low 1-C structures, he said even picking up a cup or a sheet of paper would still be Immeasurable LS in those places
 
Lifting Strength standards are inherently kind of wacky. The very reason it has to exist is because of how the lifting strength you'd naturally expect someone to have due to the force they can exert through striking strength usually is not the case in fiction.

Referring to the page itself, though, I do imagine these feats would qualify. The Lifting Strength page is clear on the notion that pushing objects of a certain mass would qualify as a lifting strength feat, which implies that lifting strength can be translated to the amount of force one would exert while pushing against something else. Things like parrying and clashing on equal terms, then, shouldn't be possible unless you have relatively equivalent lifting strength.

When you're talking about it on the Immeasurable level, it's kind of silly to think in such grounded examples, but I don't believe anything about the logic behind it fails to hold up.
 
Thanks so much for the input!

I’m gonna be out all day today. Given the sufficient staff input, if there are no further contentions by the time I get back, I’ll begin applying changes
 
Finally applied all the changes, so the profiles can be locked (Amalthus's profile should also be locked, as he has a Tier 1 key). This CRT can also be closed now
 
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