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Monado Arts Online - Shulk (Xenoblade (XC1)) vs Kirito (Sword Art Online (All))

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Canonical composite fight. Go nuts.

CCing @gamerturk for exculpatory SAO information. Don't know anyone on here who would be able to give exculpatory evidence on Xenoblade information, so I'll need to pull my weight.

Background anecdotes:

First off, I am not counting Gem crafting feat when giving an observation for Shulk. Every cutscene in the game assumes base equipment for every character, including Shulk, with the only thing changing being the Monado (1 -> 2 -> Replica -> 3), and it would be intellectually disingenuous to artificially inflate his feats and abilities this way (not saying that he needs it).

Secondly, there is a debate about SAO speed feats taking place as we speak, which you can read more about here. Let it be said that I sympathise with SAO's fanbase making it clear that Kirito is not nearly OP as the digi order cult hatedom are making him out to be. I will try my best to give my own takes on the matter, but further study is needed.

Power:

Honestly, this part is a bit of a no contest. Shulk used Monado III to ultimately slay Zanza, who in a non-god form (Klaus) was able to destroy and remake the observable universe (as shown at the end of XC1, with not only the Beanstalk going off, but Shulk himself, in tandom with Alvis, and both Zanza and Mayneth's Monado's, doing the same to multiple universes). This casually puts Shulk at 3-A, likely even Tier 2 in terms of destructive capability. Not much else to say here, except that I'm going to need some evidence on how Shulk "ressurected the dead" in the new universe? That seems unfounded to me (Quote: "Resurrected every deceased character in the new universe").

As for Kirito at the end of WoU, I would be comfortable putting Kirito at around moon level (5-C), if not slightly higher (planetary, 5-B). Initially, I would have bought up the reversion of the dragons to a larval stage, but a kind fan of the series on my twitter DBa alt informed me that was a function of the Cardinal system that they were in, not something that Kirito's character posses naturally. Our first of many indications on how SAO characters would struggle on neutral territory (more on that later).

Keep in mind also how SAOverse straight up lacks god tiers (consisting of Gabriel and MAYBE Heathcliff (depending on how you interpret him)). Contrarily, the bouts between the Bionis and the Mechonis, and the nature of Gods in a series universe was basically the plot by the end of XC1, with Mayneth falling to Zanza, someone who had initially put both the Bionis and Mechonis into a stalemate. Shulk, by the end of the game, has surpassed all gods by usurping Zanza.

Oh, and I almost forgot:



Durability:

The wiki seems to put Kirito at nigh-omniscience with immortality, due to the FTL acceleration set off by the LaughCof raid. The issue with this assertion is that the 200 years that translated to the 20 minutes it took for RATH to log both Kirito AND Asuna out of the Underworld put incredible strains on both of their bodies, implying that there is a limit to how long that Kirito and Asuna could have stayed there. Ergo, no immortality.

What the wiki is likely referring to when passing SK Kirito off as immortal is the artificial fluctlight that Higa refused to delete at the end of the series. Even with that said, the personality of the AF Kirito was far different to that of the actual Kirito we know of by the end of the series, and if re-applied as an underworld citizen (in essence, the entire point of the alicization project) would do things that the other Kirito simply wouldn't (as shown by the aforementioned personality shift). Even then, those artificial fluctlights have a limit, as shown by Eugeo's unfortunate death.

But let's talk actual feats. Shulk obviously has his universal / low-multiversal feat(s), and by Newton's 3rd law, anything he could dish out, he could likely take. Keep in mind that with just a Replica, he could trade hands with Zanza casually, meaning that up to an extent, this universe-shattering ability is something that came naturally to him. People will also bring up Shield Art and Visions, but that will ultimately come down to what is interpreted as a Talent Art thrown out by Kirito (I will not attribute any skill to that, and leave that down to this thread to decide).

As for Kirito's ability to take hits, while he doesn't have anything comparable to universal destruction, not only would it be fair to mention his likely planetary abilities such as covering the entire UW sky would indicate that is also what he's able to take in return, but, as proved by his bout with Gabriel, he's also survived decapitation / amputation, as well as Luminous Element / Durability Transfer giving him good sustain that Shulk may or may not have to work around if he wants to put Kirito down. And no, Purge would not be an option because Sacred Arts / Elements would not be interpreted as Auras.

Speed:

This part is a lot tighter. At ABSOLUTE bare minimum, I would put both Shulk and Kirito at lightning level, with both Cardinal using lightning bolts through Luminous Element vs Quinella, as well as Shulk casually taking on Alvis's Sani Telethia, that could not only call down Lightning Bolts from the sky, but is obviously stronger than the casual flocks of Telethia that could beat out Visions through Soul Read, requiring Purge to beat. I will not say anything about Kirito potentially being faster than that for now, as the SAO Speed Downgrade thread still rages on (I recommend that thread for more information). As for Shulk being potentially light speed, I would scale him to Alvis, given the evidence that he is the Aegis Ontos in XC2, and given that the Alrest universe has many casual feats of light speed capability (Jin, Mythra vs Malos and it's indication that all three Aegis's are light speed, and the fact that Zanza is half of Klaus, the master of the Aegis's, implying governance over all three). However, I have been in discussions with a friend, and there are some technicalities with the space-time transition event mentioned, so whether or not that is viable scaling is on hold. The Wiki also mentions Shulk drifting from Saturn to the Moon in under a minute, but this was literally inside his mind and isn't a combat feat, so I don't think it counts.

Hax:

Visions. Enough said.

Nah, I'm only kidding. In all seriousness, though. Visions make basically all of Shulk's matchups, not just Kirito, far more circumstantial than they need to be. It's worth noting Zanza's 'passage of fate' that the visions ultimately run off of, which would make you think that Zanza would screw him out of visions more... right? Actually, no.

Zanza's reason for leading Shulk and co. to "the inevitable" was part of his grand master scheme to make sure the Mechonis was dead, and hold supremacy over all life in the universe that he created. In a zero-sum Death Battle, I see no reason for Zanza to give Shulk any kind of worst possible outcome... UNLESS you interpret Zanza as a part of Shulk, in which case this would become Zanza vs Kirito. Even with all of that considered, by the end of the game, it was not just Shulk that superseded Zanza, but Alvis, proclaiming himself as the Monado. This implication means that Shulk now has full access to the passage of fate, making it his own (hence, reality and perception warping). It's worth noting that multiple times during the Final Boss with Zanza, that he is legitimately surprised that Shulk is able to have Visions, culminating in Shulk and Alvis overtaking him.

Now, I know what you are all thinking when it comes to Kirito, right? "Imagination makes him immortal!"

Hate to break it to y'all, but that isn't actually what happened:

2_res_item_no_dead.png


What is in character?:

This is the thing that could tilt this matchup the other way. In spite of Shulk having Multiverse-shaking offenses, near-as-dammit speed, and the ability to modify fate, is much of this really in character for him to use? Unfortunately not.



"All I wanted to do was stop Zanza having his way, that's all. I cannot be a god!" - Shulk, explaining his choice to Alvis.

At multiple points during the story, not just in the ending stretch of the game, Shulk is seen to be a pacifist, as shown with him ultimately sparing Egil in the Mechonis Core, amongst other Faced Mechon such as Metal Face (Munkhar), and Face Nemesis (Fiora). In a way, he also decided to spare Dickson atop Prison Island, when realising that he no longer wanted to fight (Dickson only later succumbing to his injuries). All of this would imply an unwillingness to actually finished off someone like Kirito, an amoral misanthrope no more deadly in motivation than anything Shulk has faced on his journey. That amorality is something that Kirito would be more willing to kill on should he be able to see Shulk as a viable threat to him, as shown by opponents such as Heathcliff, PoH and Gabriel. Then again, amorality could mean that Shulk likens Kirito to Egil, someone who threw his morals aside, and was motivated solely on revenge.



Egil: "If you do not kill me now... my blade will annihilate every last one of your people... even then?"
Shulk: "I won't kill you, but I can stop your blade. And I'll do it... over and over, until... we understand each other."

Overall:


I didn't go into this post wanting to beat Shulk's meat and say that he stomps Kirito with no difficulty, and with the variables, I'm sure that Kirito could find some circumstances to eek out a win. But Shulk is just that many tiers above Kirito in sheer destructive force, and has the adaptive ability to win without much doubt.

But that's just my take. I'll leave the rest to others in this forum.
 
Had a small conversation with @JoshSSJGod about things I should and shouldn't be doing on these forums, as well as some more Shulk info about his supposed 'Resurrection' feat / ability(s) with Monado III. May respond to certain common arguments / counter arguments at some point.

For now, CCing @ImNot4nUser and @DarkDragonMedeus as per his suggestion.
 
Um. Maybe I'm missing the joke here but isn't this an insane stomp for Shulk?

Not directly, no, although as I did mention in my personal opinions, I do think Shulk wins fairly thoroughly. The only things I need clarification on is the Monado III's ability to resurrect the dead (source pending, although as I said in my talks with JoshSSJGod, the Monado Archives Secret Files, and interpretations of Alvis's character whom Shulk scales to are at least remotely convincing evidence) and Kirito's supposed 'Immortality' omitting the need for Full Dive technology, which in the case of Star King are found through RATH servers (and are beholden to his condition in the real world, something that I forgot to mention regarding neutral territory for the SAO verse in general).

...And just as I type this....

It is. According to Joy, this was a means to an end to address Kirito's immortality.

It wasn't the totality of it, but it was an aspect of the discussion of this particular matchup.

Speaking of, I should make an addendum to what I said about SAOverse losing to neutral territory, as a lot of their powers such as peak reaction times and system manipulation is... well, precisely that, a result of the Cardinal system that surrounds each of the worlds that Kirito and co. find themselves in. As proven by Ordinal Scale, that power is greatly hampered without that support, having the OS tech be in real-world Tokyo. Imagine also someone like Heathcliff in either OS OR WoU - he would not nearly be as proficient at manipulating the game as he would be in Aincrad, even with Kayaba's collusion with Shingemura and RATH using Cardinal Technology taken into account. What is that going to mean when Cardinal is taken entirely out of the picture?

But before you assume that's the nail in the coffin for Kirito vs someone like Shulk - allow me to proffer one suggestion: by this same logic, would neutral territory not hamper Shulk's abilities in a similar way because there isn't explicitly Ether on said neutral territory? Or are we including Ether based structures in something akin to the Cardinal System where a version of this fight would take place?
 
But before you assume that's the nail in the coffin for Kirito vs someone like Shulk - allow me to proffer one suggestion: by this same logic, would neutral territory not hamper Shulk's abilities in a similar way because there isn't explicitly Ether on said neutral territory? Or are we including Ether based structures in something akin to the Cardinal System where a version of this fight would take place?
I was going to mention this when I was explaining wiki rules to ya but we have a rule called "Verse Equalisation" which basically allows the combatants to fight as if they were in their own world. If we didn't do this then it would create some extremely unfair match ups. Regardless of any of this, this match is very well a stomp. Shulk is 2 tiers higher giving a literal infinite AP advantage along with Shulk's access to Alvis due the Monado 3 being an extension of Alvis and Kirito does not really have a way to win here.
 
Not directly, no, although as I did mention in my personal opinions, I do think Shulk wins fairly thoroughly. The only things I need clarification on is the Monado III's ability to resurrect the dead (source pending, although as I said in my talks with JoshSSJGod, the Monado Archives Secret Files, and interpretations of Alvis's character whom Shulk scales to are at least remotely convincing evidence) and Kirito's supposed 'Immortality' omitting the need for Full Dive technology, which in the case of Star King are found through RATH servers (and are beholden to his condition in the real world, something that I forgot to mention regarding neutral territory for the SAO verse in general).

...And just as I type this....

Monado III can't ressurect the dead, otherwise Melia's father would've revived as well and there would be no need for Future Connected.
 
Monado III can't ressurect the dead, otherwise Melia's father would've revived as well and there would be no need for Future Connected.

That's kind of what I was thinking, albeit with the High Entia / Machina technology that reverted Fiora's Mechon body to her Homs body. The friend of mine in question that I bought up to @JoshSSJGod also mentioned Egil should have come back... which reminds me, would revival even be in character for Alvis to do? Or is he merely doing the bidding of Shulk, of whom popular Ontos-based theories believe Shulk is an Aegis driver? Even though double-crossing both Shulk and Zanza is more akin to something Malos would do if you think about it hard enough*?

Speaking of, I've gotten some shut eye on the last thing JoshSSJGod DM'd me with, and he does bring forward a compelling argument that I'd like to dissect.

(asterisk placed for response reference)

It being a mental thing is highly debatable. From what I remember though ( Lil piece of history, I helped with the XB1 stuff but I was not the main player. I was the one who got Shulk stuff like his EE) the standards the wiki has, this is treated as a form of subjective reality. Funny 'nuff that is actually consistent with Klaus having a textbook example of Subjective Reality in XB2 which is why I assume it got accepted.

So you're saying that it should really only apply to Alvis? Shulk does have a lot of trust in Alvis due to Alvis helping him throughout the journey which allowed him to save Reyn, Melia and allow him to deliver the finishing blow to Zanza. Which reminds me of something I want to ask you, Monado Archive's profile of Alvis mentions how he is manipulating the Passage of Fate so that the world can get a new god or something akin to that. That would mean that Shulk up until he starts existing outside the P.o.f was protected by Alvis who manipulated fate so that he could become worthy to take Zanza's place*.

All of it :U

When you mention Klaus's subjective reality, I assume you're referring to any one of four things:
A) The Beanstalk project, and the 20XX war.
B) The Conduit / Zohar.
C) The unstable state of the Guldo's being "what is left of [his] planet".
D) The Core Crystals.

Likely the Core Crystals, or Klaus's general abilities, when he mentions this:



"The first thing I created was a special particulate substance with the ability to restore deteriorated matter. You all know it as the Cloud Sea. The Cloud Sea can disassemble matter it comes in contact with... and rebuild it in the image of all the things that once made up this world."
"This way... little by little, I could restore the world I had bought to ruin..."
"Next, I began to recreate life. I collected miniature vessels containing memories of all this planet's former lifeforms.... and I scattered them across the Cloud Sea. These are the Core Crystals."


Whichever factor it was, it was obviously a complex process, which brings me onto something I want to ask: is the recreation of body(s) and their personalities not two different processes? The combination of them only being construed as resurrection? Because not only does it come off as somewhat arbitrary to me when we're only reviving those who are already still alive, but to me it strikes me as out of character for even Alvis to utilise this power in any capacity, given that he's willing to respect Shulk's decision on ultimately discarding his newly-found god powers for altruistic reasons (Alvis himself being rather indifferent about the fact that he's just superseded Zanza and allowed Shulk to slay Zanza). Bringing that back around to XC2, there's an disconnect between the Architect Klaus in XC2 and Zanza in XC1 (yes, I'm aware this was thematically deliberate) when Klaus mentions "What if [this world] were to repeat our mistakes?", leaving me hard-pressed to believe that the Space-Time transition event that Ontos (Alvis) triggered was merely an accident.

Anyways, to stop this going too far in Shulk's direction (as if we haven't been doing plenty of that), what methods does he have to deal with or stop Kirito's flight? Because the friend of mine I mentioned to JoshSSJGod is currently asking how Shulk is able to keep up with Kirito (let's just say he has perception blindness...), and I think this is part of the reason he asks (dw I'll fill him in on the SAO Speed Tiers thread in a bit). I'd start with the Telethia being able to dupe Visions, and Shulk casually defeating Sani who is supposedly stronger than most common forms of Telethia (who as I said in personal takes, would be around Lightning level at bare minimum), but I feel as though I'm missing something obvious.
 
Anyways, to stop this going too far in Shulk's direction (as if we haven't been doing plenty of that), what methods does he have to deal with or stop Kirito's flight? Because the friend of mine I mentioned to JoshSSJGod is currently asking how Shulk is able to keep up with Kirito (let's just say he has perception blindness...), and I think this is part of the reason he asks (dw I'll fill him in on the SAO Speed Tiers thread in a bit). I'd start with the Telethia being able to dupe Visions, and Shulk casually defeating Sani who is supposedly stronger than most common forms of Telethia (who as I said in personal takes, would be around Lightning level at bare minimum), but I feel as though I'm missing something obvious.'

Debuffs. Either paralyze or bind, both of which can activate at almost if not a 100% success rate just by attacking (since it's composite you'd assume he has ALL GEMS ON which...means he has all the RPG elements active, yeah, that's gonna be insane.) And if flight is an ability, Aura Seal would probably do the trick too and that's a projectile.

That's kind of what I was thinking, albeit with the High Entia / Machina technology that reverted Fiora's Mechon body to her Homs body. The friend of mine in question that I bought up to @JoshSSJGod also mentioned Egil should have come back... which reminds me, would revival even be in character for Alvis to do? Or is he merely doing the bidding of Shulk, of whom popular Ontos-based theories believe Shulk is an Aegis driver? Even though double-crossing both Shulk and Zanza is more akin to something Malos would do if you think about it hard enough*?

Speaking of, I've gotten some shut eye on the last thing JoshSSJGod DM'd me with, and he does bring forward a compelling argument that I'd like to dissect.

(asterisk placed for response reference)

If it's a composite battle where winning is their only conditions then yeah, Alvis would revive Shulk as many times as needed for him to win. If Alvis is Ontos (I believe he is personally) he'd still have plenty of free will to decide whether he'd help shulk or not, which he does. Being a BLADE Driver, especially an Aegis doesn't put you at the whims of the will of the other, but their will does influence their early stage personalities a tad similar to how Malos was infected by Amalthus's nihilism.
 
Debuffs. Either paralyze or bind, both of which can activate at almost if not a 100% success rate just by attacking (since it's composite you'd assume he has ALL GEMS ON which...means he has all the RPG elements active, yeah, that's gonna be insane.) And if flight is an ability, Aura Seal would probably do the trick too and that's a projectile.

Again, Purge I agree with as a starting point because of how he handled the Telethia, but that's just a general tool he uses for shooting aerial opponents out of the sky, not for denying Kirito of an essential movement option (although he could be disincentivised of it).

As for Gems... again, I don't like the idea of Gems because it's abstraction is handed to the player, not any of the characters whom feats we're pulling from cutscenes (as I said in my personal takes), meaning that the mechanic can be entirely ignored by the player, and the character(s) story carries on as usual. Even if we are to take the mechanic absolutely literally, Shulk would only have access to up to three AA-inflicted/weapon debuffs at any given moment, as A) Bind Attack / Bleed Attack / Slow etc. cannot be equipped to body parts, of which B) he would not have access to body part gem slots because we are assuming that he's running default outfit (I.E: run all story cutscenes with no modifications). Minor statistical discrepancies coming from better late-game armour sets (that which we have no way of knowing how much they would affect his Universal feats, if at all) is exactly that - irrelevant statistical arbitration, that which is looked down upon during debates like this. Oh, and his AAs wouldn't even reach during Kirito flying, so... yeah.

If it's a composite battle where winning is their only conditions then yeah, Alvis would revive Shulk as many times as needed for him to win. If Alvis is Ontos (I believe he is personally) he'd still have plenty of free will to decide whether he'd help shulk or not, which he does. Being a BLADE Driver, especially an Aegis doesn't put you at the whims of the will of the other, but their will does influence their early stage personalities a tad similar to how Malos was infected by Amalthus's nihilism.

Do you recall Ganondorf vs Dracula? Because I take that as the bread and butter when it comes to supposed 'immortality' matchups, where one life takes all. Even with both being immortals by conventional means, there was still a definitive outcome.



Imagine also if someone like Salem from RWBY was also invited to VS/Death Battles like so. I'm supposed to believe that she can solo vs just because V8 turned around to the viewer and said "yeah we said she is immortal as punishment by the gods, but Hazel managed to punch her into dust multiple times until she came back a few hours later"? Going off word of mouth, that does not sound too dissimilar to Ganondorf OR Dracula.
 
Impromptu but I just converted what @Kaantantr put out on his Abyssal Horror scaling blog, and...

KM_Converter_-_SAO_feats.png


Are we positive this is correct? Cardinal was casually shooting lightning earlier in Alicization, and Kirito is def. stronger than Quinella, who Cardinal has bouted with quite notably.
 
Again, Purge I agree with as a starting point because of how he handled the Telethia, but that's just a general tool he uses for shooting aerial opponents out of the sky, not for denying Kirito of an essential movement option (although he could be disincentivised of it).

As for Gems... again, I don't like the idea of Gems because it's abstraction is handed to the player, not any of the characters whom feats we're pulling from cutscenes (as I said in my personal takes), meaning that the mechanic can be entirely ignored by the player, and the character(s) story carries on as usual. Even if we are to take the mechanic absolutely literally, Shulk would only have access to up to three AA-inflicted/weapon debuffs at any given moment, as A) Bind Attack / Bleed Attack / Slow etc. cannot be equipped to body parts, of which B) he would not have access to body part gem slots because we are assuming that he's running default outfit (I.E: run all story cutscenes with no modifications). Minor statistical discrepancies coming from better late-game armour sets (that which we have no way of knowing how much they would affect his Universal feats, if at all) is exactly that - irrelevant statistical arbitration, that which is looked down upon during debates like this. Oh, and his AAs wouldn't even reach during Kirito flying, so... yeah.
I like your way of thinking but it doesn't matter based on what you said given you stated they're both composite, meaning it's a collection of all their forms, abilities, feats, and stats at their maximum. You would ignore Gem limits and whether it'd be considered an 'abstraction'. Composite means a collective of all mechanics and possibilities the character has available to them and Gem Crafting is a canonical thing that exists in the game, so they are canon mechanics. (They do create a plot hole argument for 'well x could've just done this because of this gem') but we all know stories don't work that way.

I also wouldn't ever bring DB into an argument given they've been proven to rig their victories, so I'm not gonna comment on that beyond this.
 
I like your way of thinking but it doesn't matter based on what you said given you stated they're both composite, meaning it's a collection of all their forms, abilities, feats, and stats at their maximum. You would ignore Gem limits and whether it'd be considered an 'abstraction'. Composite means a collective of all mechanics and possibilities the character has available to them and Gem Crafting is a canonical thing that exists in the game, so they are canon mechanics. (They do create a plot hole argument for 'well x could've just done this because of this gem') but we all know stories don't work that way.

Not even just that, but as I implied earlier, it's textbook stat fallacy. Do you recall the Pokemon generations where Miltank used to be faster than Pidgeot, who's dex entries have always said it's around Mach 5 or so? Gems and the like are very little different. Alas, it's also unknown how the effect is applied in the scenes that we generally pull feats from, and it's best practice not to make assumptions without visual evidence (unless there are backed up statements that we can infer power or a feat from). I don't think we can turn around to something like the Mechon M18 attacks, Disciple Dickson, or Shulk coming that close to chopping Egil's head off and say "that was clearly an Auto-Attack!!1!" or "that looked like Shaker Edge from a 45 degree angle!!1!"
 
Not even just that, but as I implied earlier, it's textbook stat fallacy. Do you recall the Pokemon generations where Miltank used to be faster than Pidgeot, who's dex entries have always said it's around Mach 5 or so? Gems and the like are very little different. Alas, it's also unknown how the effect is applied in the scenes that we generally pull feats from, and it's best practice not to make assumptions without visual evidence (unless there are backed up statements that we can infer power or a feat from). I don't think we can turn around to something like the Mechon M18 attacks, Disciple Dickson, or Shulk coming that close to chopping Egil's head off and say "that was clearly an Auto-Attack!!1!" or "that looked like Shaker Edge from a 45 degree angle!!1!"
Like I said, story doesn't work that way but the Gem system is a canonical element that does exist in the world itself and doesn't contradict anything in terms of being used in a composite fight. It's not the same as two different mediums treating the material differently.
 
Like I said, story doesn't work that way but the Gem system is a canonical element that does exist in the world itself and doesn't contradict anything in terms of being used in a composite fight. It's not the same as two different mediums treating the material differently.

Then have you not just admitted that the Gems are straight up not needed? Because forgive me for sounding cheeky, but I'm fairly sure you and SSJ were confident enough at the start of this that a 2-tier power difference was enough for Shulk to put Kirito down for good, with Purge as a contingency plan for any of Kirito's flight or means of escape.
 
Yeah? I'm only answering the questions you have. Everything Kirito can do is irrelevant to someone he :

A: Can never touch because of Causality Precog, speed, and durability
B: Someone who can just blink and erase him, IC or not.

All of this is pointless either way because Kirito can't lift a finger against Shulk either way, but you were the one bringing up the questions and so I answered.
 
Yeah? I'm only answering the questions you have. Everything Kirito can do is irrelevant to someone he :

A: Can never touch because of Causality Precog, speed, and durability
B: Someone who can just blink and erase him, IC or not.

All of this is pointless either way because Kirito can't lift a finger against Shulk either way, but you were the one bringing up the questions and so I answered.

Right, so should I just put this up to a final vote? Or are we unanimous anyway?

Because I was going to say two tiers is still within reasonable doubt, but given the nature of these tiers, I don't want to come across as if we're chasing our own tails.
 
There's no need for a vote, it's a stomp honestly. It won't be added. Shulk just has to swing his sword before Kirito can react and his head is off. Instant Death with Death Gem too, so no funky resurrections.
 
I... don't think Instant Death gems exist. I could be wrong though.

You would be correct. I misremembered and some abilities need to be removed anyways like ressurection.

Even disregarding that though, nothing swag lord Kirito can do to the Monado boy, especially considering Shulk resists most of his arsenal anyways.

He could literally just have Spike Damage take care of Kirito for him lmao actually
 
righto.

@JoshSSJGod anything else you want to add before I pull the plug on this thread? Or have we covered every base / you want to return to DMs to discuss anything we missed?
 
Lil note for ya Joy. The @ only works for admins and staff members.

Nothing much to really add, its a massive o' stomp for Shulk. I'll also try work your complaints into the second part of that Xenoblade CRT i've been working on (part 1 being updating Xb2 and part 2 being what that means for xb1 characters like Alvis who would benefit from stuff like Blade Physiology)
 
Well I guess I could just there’s not a lot I can say that hasn’t already been said Shulk has a massive power advantage helpful abilities Ect should take this pretty easily from what I’m seeing.
I guess if I had to comment on anything Alvis resurrection is something to consider but with matches in general i generally see it’s helpfulness determined by how long it takes to come back or if the opponent would be able to make a difference after coming back (like the Ganondorf vs Dracula example the latter was far more powerful so even if the former can come back the results would remain the same.)
 
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