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Nasuverse Upgrade: High 1-A for Swirl of The Root
- Thread starter Tdjwo
- Start date
- Status
Rakih_Elyan
He/Him- 4,408
- 3,041
Rakih_Elyan
He/Him- 4,408
- 3,041
Three staff already disagree with this.
You guys only have 19 hours until the grace ended.
You guys only have 19 hours until the grace ended.
Rakih_Elyan
He/Him- 4,408
- 3,041
Change my mind.
I disagree with this CRT.
I disagree with this CRT.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,175
- 1,298
- Thread starter
- #286
What novel was this again? It says page 464 but Knk 2 is only 200+Didn't know you had English comprehension issues, 有限が本当になければ、それは無限などではなく「 」であり。I said If the concept of finite doesn't exist, then IT isn't infinity, it is emptiness.
無限は、「 」ではない。This is the statement where it says Infinity isn't Emptiness.
I reverse searched that Eucliean statement from this website and the Japanese text that's corresponding to the English translation doesn't match up whatsoever, it's EITHER grossly mistranslated or they inserted the wrong Japanese text
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Fate/Stay Night, Fate Route
The_Pink_God
She/Her- 2,641
- 732
Yeah I'm gonna go with the Japanese and the Staffs here and vote Disagree
Ubdon
He/Him- 636
- 279
My favorite knk novel
Rakih_Elyan
He/Him- 4,408
- 3,041
Anyways, with those context, high 1-A root will be nulled.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,175
- 1,298
- Thread starter
- #293
Didn't know you had English comprehension issues, 有限が本当になければ、それは無限などではなく「 」であり。I said If the concept of finite doesn't exist, then IT isn't infinity, it is emptiness.
無限は、「 」ではない。This is the statement where it says Infinity isn't Emptiness.
I reverse searched that Eucliean statement from this website and the Japanese text that's corresponding to the English translation doesn't match up whatsoever, it's EITHER grossly mistranslated or they inserted the wrong Japanese text
What is the name of the novel you got this raw from? KnK 2 only has 238 pages but this scan seems to be gotten from page 464 of which novel?
Chasekilleen
He/Him- 432
- 360
The first book has 324 pages, the second book has 506 pages, the third book has 519 pages.
There are three versions of the book, first book was a doujinshi version, the writibg was very rough, the second version was the first officially published version by Kondansha, the third version was a commemoration for KnK and they packaged the book in a hard book cover with more word density. Thus reducing the book to two books instead of three, which was the Kondansha version was.
Chasekilleen
He/Him- 432
- 360
Why are you so picky man?? It was in the second volume, the middle volume aka 空の境界（中）
Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,175
- 1,298
- Thread starter
- #297
Wdym by picky? I'm specifically asking for a source dude.
Anyways, since you said middle, and the volume is the second one while the one with the non-euclidean part is at the last parts of the same novel, I finally understand what you are referring to and you are indeed right. They are both two different scans. This is the translated scan for the one you found.
And to be honest, this still implies High 1A based on the concept of infinity and shiki being in infinity yet rendering the non-existent limit useless. I would explain better later.
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Wasn't the primary basis on the notion that recursively stacked infinities was a thing, which directly hinged off the Non-Euclidean space part?Wdym by picky? I'm specifically asking for a source dude.
Anyways, since you said middle, and the volume is the second one while the one with the non-euclidean part is at the last parts of the same novel, I finally understand what you are referring to and you are indeed right. They are both two different scans. This is the translated scan for the one you found.
And to be honest, this still implies High 1A based on the concept of infinity and shiki being in infinity yet rendering the non-existent limit useless. I would explain better later.
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The concept of infinity is virtually worthless without proper presence of set theory and it being related to set theory anyways.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,925
- 2,128
This is 1-C at absolute best and ******* meaningless at worst.
Once again, I communicate my grievances with scaler brain rot where we see it in action at this very moment.
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Atleast sane people have entered this thread now.
But yes, I still obviously disagree. This thread is baseless.
But yes, I still obviously disagree. This thread is baseless.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,175
- 1,298
- Thread starter
- #302
There are characters on this wiki that reached High 1A and higher because they transcended the concept of infinity along with some contexts behind. God Unsong is an example of this. I would make a post in the comments tomorrow explaining why The root should be High 1A now that I've gotten the correct translated scan.
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I don't know why all of you keep attempting to assert this profoundly exaggerated and incorrect interpretation of these "infinity" statements. As I have stated, multiple times, these aren't referring to mathematical infinities. It is using "finite" synonymously with mortal, or subject to dissolution. That which is "Infinite" is eternal and adamantine.Wdym by picky? I'm specifically asking for a source dude.
Anyways, since you said middle, and the volume is the second one while the one with the non-euclidean part is at the last parts of the same novel, I finally understand what you are referring to and you are indeed right. They are both two different scans. This is the translated scan for the one you found.
And to be honest, this still implies High 1A based on the concept of infinity and shiki being in infinity yet rendering the non-existent limit useless. I would explain better later.
The application of Shiki's mystic eyes is that she can perceive the ephemeral nature of all things and cut their lines, which causes them to experience the dissolution of the Root. This is how Shiki's eyes have always operated. There is no mathematical statement being made here.
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Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,925
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Me thinks you might be simplifying matters a tiny little bit.
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Unsong actually directly mentioned Cantor and his system of Transfinite sets, as opposed to this thread which does nothing even comparable, as it is all founded on misinterpretation.
Ubdon
He/Him- 636
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Doubt you change 3+ staff votes from 1 comment so just spend time on better thing than debating about some iffy explanation.
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I'm not gonna say my opinion over this now, but seeing how 3 of the staff disagreed with this, this thread is gonna be locked soon, you won't magically change their votes with one comment man, sorry to say that.
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Where it prove infinite^infinite already 1A??
Bruh infinite^infinite is equal to aleph 1, so it basically a represention of aleph 1. In fact he mention about higher infinity that is literally about aleph
No its not. He literally say previous infinite is being finite to the next infinite, and then he claim the next infinite will be higher infinity. I just say if infinite being finite on another infinite and so on to infinity it not mean that structure will become 1A+
I dont even know where you guys get the infinite^infinite with that proof
Where you get "if you stack to infinity you get 1A+"?
The OP just say infinite is being finite or has limit and then start claim that is higher infinity or higher aleph
Bruh the OP clearly mean about that, if that not stacking higher infinity to infinity how it can 1A+?
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I don't recall saying "Euclidean space gets you to high 1-B or high 1-A" again
Once again this is a misrepresentation of what is said I didn't say a non Euclidean geometrical space being infinite just magically gets to high 1-A
Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,175
- 1,298
- Thread starter
- #314
Alright. It's time for me to truly explain why I think The root should be High 1A using the apparently well translated version of the scan
I would be interpreting the scan from each parts to make the explanation easier and better.
"Infinity is not 「 」. In order to render infinity, one must define limits. Without limits, infinity cannot exist."
The first part shows that Infinity is a concept that refers to something without limits or bounds. The mathematical symbol we know it as is ∞. However, simply having this symbol does not mean that it's 「 」, which is basically an idealized version of something without any limits whatsoever(something infinity isn't). It then notes that in order to make sense of infinity, we need to define limits.
A limit is a value that a sequence or function approaches as the input approaches a certain value or as the sequence continues indefinitely. For example, if we have the sequence 1/2, 3/4, 7/8, 15/16, ... then the limit of this sequence as it continues indefinitely is 1.
Without limits, infinity is undefined and cannot be observed. This is because infinity is not a number in the traditional sense - it is a concept that describes something that is unbounded and never-ending. However, no matter how "infinite" something is, whether countable or uncountable, or aleph 1, 2,3,4, etc it still would always have a limit. That's how we are able to differentiate between Aleph 1, 2, etc. And that's why we can observe infinity in certain contexts.
However, the statement then mentions Ryougi Shiki, described as "immersed in infinity". This means that she is in a situation where there is supposed to be no limits, and everything is unbounded and never-ending. However, Shiki is able to find a non-existent limit and sever it. To interpret this better, it's saying that Shiki was trapped in something infinite but that infinity still had a limit which is why Shiki is able to cut it down because there isn't really "infinity" if limits exists therefore, it's not really infinity.
This means that she is able to identify a boundary where there was none before and create a finite world within the infinite one.
In short, what the entire scan is saying is that infinity and it's notions doesn't really exist. The very concept of infinity itself, whether it's in Aleph 1,2,3,4, etc would always have limits. But 「 」is the embodiment that surpasses the such limit. Think about it again. Firstly, it claimed that limits do not exist in infinity so it's impossible to sever something that doesn't exist. However, without limits, infinity wouldn't exist either.
Basically;
This should make it at least High 1A.
Knowing how the Root works, this shouldn't come off as a surprise. If it weren't for the fact that Negative Theology wasn't accepted as High 1A or 0, then this wouldn't have been an issue to understand at all. The root is basically something undescribable in it's very primordial form which is seen as 1A on this site. But that's because we are tiering the Root wrongly.
If we accept that the Root represents or surpasses the notion/concept of infinity itself(as I explained above) since it basically embodies an infinity that actually has no limits unlike aleph 1,2,3,4, then the root would have been at the very least High 1A. Then adding Apophatic Theology to it would have made it higher. But instead, we disregard other explanations of the Root such as this and focus solely on Negative Theology which makes it cap at 1A.
God Unsong for example got High 1A for being above the concept of Infinity
I would be interpreting the scan from each parts to make the explanation easier and better.
"Infinity is not 「 」. In order to render infinity, one must define limits. Without limits, infinity cannot exist."
The first part shows that Infinity is a concept that refers to something without limits or bounds. The mathematical symbol we know it as is ∞. However, simply having this symbol does not mean that it's 「 」, which is basically an idealized version of something without any limits whatsoever(something infinity isn't). It then notes that in order to make sense of infinity, we need to define limits.
A limit is a value that a sequence or function approaches as the input approaches a certain value or as the sequence continues indefinitely. For example, if we have the sequence 1/2, 3/4, 7/8, 15/16, ... then the limit of this sequence as it continues indefinitely is 1.
Without limits, infinity is undefined and cannot be observed. This is because infinity is not a number in the traditional sense - it is a concept that describes something that is unbounded and never-ending. However, no matter how "infinite" something is, whether countable or uncountable, or aleph 1, 2,3,4, etc it still would always have a limit. That's how we are able to differentiate between Aleph 1, 2, etc. And that's why we can observe infinity in certain contexts.
However, the statement then mentions Ryougi Shiki, described as "immersed in infinity". This means that she is in a situation where there is supposed to be no limits, and everything is unbounded and never-ending. However, Shiki is able to find a non-existent limit and sever it. To interpret this better, it's saying that Shiki was trapped in something infinite but that infinity still had a limit which is why Shiki is able to cut it down because there isn't really "infinity" if limits exists therefore, it's not really infinity.
This means that she is able to identify a boundary where there was none before and create a finite world within the infinite one.
In short, what the entire scan is saying is that infinity and it's notions doesn't really exist. The very concept of infinity itself, whether it's in Aleph 1,2,3,4, etc would always have limits. But 「 」is the embodiment that surpasses the such limit. Think about it again. Firstly, it claimed that limits do not exist in infinity so it's impossible to sever something that doesn't exist. However, without limits, infinity wouldn't exist either.
Basically;
- There are no limits inside infinity.
- But if there's no limit, infinity cannot exist. And that is because the conventional infinities and alephs we all know always have a limit to where they reach. Aleph 1 is lower than aleph 2 which is lower than aleph 3 and so on. This is why there are limits inside infinities.
This should make it at least High 1A.
Knowing how the Root works, this shouldn't come off as a surprise. If it weren't for the fact that Negative Theology wasn't accepted as High 1A or 0, then this wouldn't have been an issue to understand at all. The root is basically something undescribable in it's very primordial form which is seen as 1A on this site. But that's because we are tiering the Root wrongly.
If we accept that the Root represents or surpasses the notion/concept of infinity itself(as I explained above) since it basically embodies an infinity that actually has no limits unlike aleph 1,2,3,4, then the root would have been at the very least High 1A. Then adding Apophatic Theology to it would have made it higher. But instead, we disregard other explanations of the Root such as this and focus solely on Negative Theology which makes it cap at 1A.
God Unsong for example got High 1A for being above the concept of Infinity
But this very same character still got boundless because his very primordial version which is Atzmus is the nameless and incomprehensible aspect of his High 1A version
Basically, the same way we see Swirl of The Root but there's still the very undescribable version that is 「 」
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Pleases stop rambling infinity^infinity being aleph 1 is contextual based its not always the case I said it's 2 dimensional in this case as an analogy
What proof? I already told you whatever you're saying is just nonsense because I'm talking ab actual greater infinities that's why I mentioned again real projective spaces and lines at infinity
I said it has a limit because there's one greater that's why I said infinity|^infinity the first infinity would have its limit there and a greater one would still exist to represent a higher dimensional space
Constructing alephs still works in the same way
Are you literally telling me what I mean rn? I didn't say stacking infinity to infinity I said the arithmetics work from the first dimension to anything up to 1-A+
Please tell me how does this equate to "stacking higher infinity to infinity"
I already said in the thread the term non Euclidean space is not that important because R>f exists in the nasuverse which is still a form of recursively stacked infinities over and over again
It's literally the same thing but without the mention of non Euclidean space which I already said is not that important because r>f still works
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Since when does R>F have anything to do with recursively stacking infinities. R>F is a type of transcendence.
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It won't matter whether it does or not it's not that important
This entire thing will looked at taken to the most ape interpretation to make it look bad and they'll disagree with itAlright. It's time for me to truly explain why I think The root should be High 1A using the apparently well translated version of the scan
I would be interpreting the scan from each parts to make the explanation easier and better.
"Infinity is not 「 」. In order to render infinity, one must define limits. Without limits, infinity cannot exist."
The first part shows that Infinity is a concept that refers to something without limits or bounds. The mathematical symbol we know it as is ∞. However, simply having this symbol does not mean that it's 「 」, which is basically an idealized version of something without any limits whatsoever(something infinity isn't). It then notes that in order to make sense of infinity, we need to define limits.
A limit is a value that a sequence or function approaches as the input approaches a certain value or as the sequence continues indefinitely. For example, if we have the sequence 1/2, 3/4, 7/8, 15/16, ... then the limit of this sequence as it continues indefinitely is 1.
Without limits, infinity is undefined and cannot be observed. This is because infinity is not a number in the traditional sense - it is a concept that describes something that is unbounded and never-ending. However, no matter how "infinite" something is, whether countable or uncountable, or aleph 1, 2,3,4, etc it still would always have a limit. That's how we are able to differentiate between Aleph 1, 2, etc. And that's why we can observe infinity in certain contexts.
However, the statement then mentions Ryougi Shiki, described as "immersed in infinity". This means that she is in a situation where there is supposed to be no limits, and everything is unbounded and never-ending. However, Shiki is able to find a non-existent limit and sever it. To interpret this better, it's saying that Shiki was trapped in something infinite but that infinity still had a limit which is why Shiki is able to cut it down because there isn't really "infinity" if limits exists therefore, it's not really infinity.
This means that she is able to identify a boundary where there was none before and create a finite world within the infinite one.
In short, what the entire scan is saying is that infinity and it's notions doesn't really exist. The very concept of infinity itself, whether it's in Aleph 1,2,3,4, etc would always have limits. But 「 」is the embodiment that surpasses the such limit. Think about it again. Firstly, it claimed that limits do not exist in infinity so it's impossible to sever something that doesn't exist. However, without limits, infinity wouldn't exist either.
Basically;
That's why the final part of the scan then says, If there's actually no limit, then it's not infinity. Instead, it's「 」. That is because 「 」has an absolute superiority above the concept of infinity itself. It is the only thing that has no limits. Ontologically, this makes「 」 represent either the True Infinity or above every sort of infinity based on how you interpret it. As long as it represents something that truly has no limits, then it's 「 」. That means Aleph 1,2,3,4, etc. And that is exactly the scan concludes that anything that has limits would always fall under the wrath of Shiki, who embodies「 」for that is the only thing that embodies or supersedes the true limitless infinity.
- There are no limits inside infinity.
- But if there's no limit, infinity cannot exist. And that is because the conventional infinities and alephs we all know always have a limit to where they reach. Aleph 1 is lower than aleph 2 which is lower than aleph 3 and so on. This is why there are limits inside infinities.
This should make it at least High 1A.
Knowing how the Root works, this shouldn't come off as a surprise. If it weren't for the fact that Negative Theology wasn't accepted as High 1A or 0, then this wouldn't have been an issue to understand at all. The root is basically something undescribable in it's very primordial form which is seen as 1A on this site. But that's because we are tiering the Root wrongly.
If we accept that the Root represents or surpasses the notion/concept of infinity itself(as I explained above) since it basically embodies an infinity that actually has no limits unlike aleph 1,2,3,4, then the root would have been at the very least High 1A. Then adding Apophatic Theology to it would have made it higher. But instead, we disregard other explanations of the Root such as this and focus solely on Negative Theology which makes it cap at 1A.
God Unsong for example got High 1A for being above the concept of Infinity
But this very same character still got boundless because his very primordial version which is Atzmus is the nameless and incomprehensible aspect of his High 1A version
Basically, the same way we see Swirl of The Root but there's still the very undescribable version that is 「 」
The arguments in the OP have been misrepresented 10+ times just to make it look bad
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R>f is just the empirical nature of dimensions that you'll get from physics when it explains dimensions in informal languages and how higher dimensions work in informal languages
Those descriptions correspond to mathematical theorems describing the gap in magnitude between the lower dimensions and higher dimensions
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^^
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That was a whole lot of nothing lmfao. Give some actual evidence that suggests the existence of recursively stacked infinities. Cause the verse having R>F transcendence doesn't prove this in the slightest
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