Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[Overlord_Darkness]

I think that Yog can also have Transduality (Type 2) because all of reality (with all dual systems within it) within Yog and Yog transcendents it

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

Is that cokesato """"translation""""?... I don't even disagree with the argument, but cokesato translations should never be used for anything given how he completely changes the original text and meaning whimsically.

Ngl I'm too lazy to argue Translations so I'll just agree to whatever you say.

Can u check it? https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MrUnderlord/Abby_and_Outer_God#Outer_God

Add better justifications for Acausality (Type 4) it's not yog encompassing all possible dimensions, just use a better justifications outer gods aren't bound by reason/logic, physics and laws of the inner world.

Outer gods can grant hokusai power to manipulate the imaginary number of space, possible additions should be Vector Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Illustration Creation, Information Manipulation, Higher Dimensional Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation, because they can manipulate the imaginary number of space and Subjective Reality (they can turn beings of the imaginary number of space into beings of the real space and making them observable). It can be Mathematics Manipulation too because skadi said "If you are to take this place as the imaginery numbers and us as real numbers, you must know that those kinds of numbers cannot be counted on the same operation." It can be interpreted as taking numbers counted by different operations into numbers that can be counted on the same operations.

I don't know if that works for all outer gods; judging from imaginary scramble foreigners generally have this innate ability that they get from outer gods to manipulate aspects of the imaginary space if not just outright transforming it entirely or destroying it.

Never only root can be tier 0

NLF victim

Now that I think ab it you can argue negative theology for the outer gods in the nasuverse, but then again it'll contradict negative theology because the root is above them.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Add better justifications for Acausality (Type 4) it's not yog encompassing all possible dimensions, just use a better justifications outer gods aren't bound by reason/logic, physics and laws of the inner world.

Outer gods can grant hokusai power to manipulate the imaginary number of space, possible additions should be Vector Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Illustration Creation, Information Manipulation, Higher Dimensional Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation, because they can manipulate the imaginary number of space and Subjective Reality (they can turn beings of the imaginary number of space into beings of the real space and making them observable). It can be Mathematics Manipulation too because skadi said "If you are to take this place as the imaginery numbers and us as real numbers, you must know that those kinds of numbers cannot be counted on the same operation." It can be interpreted as taking numbers counted by different operations into numbers that can be counted on the same operations.

I don't know if that works for all outer gods; judging from imaginary scramble foreigners generally have this innate ability that they get from outer gods to manipulate aspects of the imaginary space if not just outright transforming it entirely or destroying it.

Thanks! Actually, Yog has all abilities of other Outer Gods because they are merely a parts of him (they came from the Outer Universe and Yog-Sothoth IS the Outer Universe)

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Now that I think ab it you can argue negative theology for the outer gods in the nasuverse, but then again it'll contradict negative theology because the root is above them.

And, well, what is it Negative Theology?

 

[LehenDuo]

Ngl I'm too lazy to argue Translations so I'll just agree to whatever you say.

The problem is that Cokesato "???" can't even be considered a translation, and even as a localization, it's bad.

So, why was Cokesakto's translation so unpopular?

I know he didn't use the accepted fan terminology, but was the translation itself actually bad or is this another case of the "literal" vs "localized" translation argument.

forums.nrvnqsr.com

There is a spoiler tag, in Leftovers' post, that illustrates the problem.
One example that is particularly bad:

Cokesato

“Perhaps. It’s only a theory, a metaphysical rule of the universe. It’s the ‘consensus’ I always talk about, humanity’s greatest ally, and a mage’s most constant enemy. We have no ill will towards people, and only want to live in peace. Unfortunately, reality feels the same way. The combined will of all the people form into a consensual paradigm which tends to restore reality to a stable state, to combat things that logically shouldn’t exist…like the Art and mages. Sometimes, when the consensus is so focused, it coalesces, and becomes a literal manifestation. It can cast its hands into fate to move otherwise normal people in positions that would topple great men. Humanity’s swirling consensus itself is its unseen protector, and the people it channels its will into were the ones we called heroes, though it’s not so easy to have the same result now in the plurality of our world and the ease with which we can **** ourselves over without knowing it. The Deterrent influences people all the time, saving us without us knowing it. But don’t mistake it as having any empathy for humans. It’s only loyalty is to the consensus, and it doesn’t take into account something like human happiness, where there seems to be no consensus at all. We can only be sure about two things: it is humanity’s representative will, and it will eliminate the paradoxes of the world, the mages and their experiments with the illogical Art.”

Actual Translation

--- You may be right.

You see, that Opposing Power refers to the 'Restorer of Direction' which is at once our greatest ally, and our greatest enemy.

We don't want to kill humans. We want to live in peace.

This planet that we live on doesn't want to die either, it wants to live for a long time.

The Opposing Power is like that. The collective unconsciousness of all those who belong to the whole of the dominant species, their desire to see that the world continues to exist. It is the fundamental wish of the human species that has gathered and taken form, the Counter Guardian that we call the Opposing Power.

Okay, let's take an example and say an extraordinary person A has conquered the world. He is a just person, and his rule has been exemplary. Within the limits of human morals that is. But in the case that you don't look from one person's point of view, and person A's actions are taken as evil by the whole of the dominant species, in short a cause for extinction, the Opposing Power will be realised.

This is the collective body of the unconscious desire of all members of the dominant species including A to keep the world as it is in existence. To protect the race this existence that composes the species appears without anyone realising, and without anyone noticing, destroys the existence called A. The representative created by the maelstrom of humanity's unconscious mind is also a part of that unconsciousness and is not picked up.

Even so, it's not to say that a formless consciousness becomes a curse and kills A. The Opposing Power generally hides within a human who can become a link, then drives out A who is the enemy. The person who has become the link has enough power to topple A, but no more, in order that they cannot replace A.

Receivers who can accept the Opposing Power comprised of the whole of the dominant race's will, humans with special channels like that are few and far between. History calls them heroes and praises them.

But in modern times that title isn't being used. Civilisations progressed to the point where it has become quite simple for humanity to destroy itself. If some company's chairman invested all his money into expanding the amount of logging in the Amazon rainforest, the world could end in a year. See, the Earth is in danger wherever and whenever. There are countless numbers of people who are being incited by the Opposing Power that save the planet without anyone knowing it. There is one hero per age. Such a thing as saving the world is no longer enough to get you called a hero.

Also, in the case that A is too powerful to topple with a human's power, the Opposing Power becomes a natural force and destroys the area including A. Long, long ago, the sinking of that continent was due to this bastard too.

If you talk about it like this it seems like some guardian of humanity, but this thing has no human emotions. There are times when it blocks acts that would make everyone happier. The aggravating thing is that in the end this nuisance is the representation of humanity itself. Although we can't comprehend it the Opposing Power is the ultimate form of the dominant race. Time and time again in the past, this thing appeared in front of mages who attempted a particular experiment, and the mages were all massacred."

Yes, those are technically the same part. I don't think I need to explain the problem...

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

The problem is that Cokesato "???" can't even be considered a translation, and even as a localization, it's bad.

So, why was Cokesakto's translation so unpopular?

I know he didn't use the accepted fan terminology, but was the translation itself actually bad or is this another case of the "literal" vs "localized" translation argument.

forums.nrvnqsr.com

There is a spoiler tag, in Leftovers' post, that illustrates the problem.
One example that is particularly bad:

Cokesato


Actual Translation


Yes, those are technically the same part. I don't think I need to explain the problem...

Is translation problems bad especially with flowery language

 

[LehenDuo]

Is translation problems bad especially with flowery language

Specially bad when the person doing the "translation" decides he should add a number of things that where never in the original text, or completely ignore WHOLE paragraphs...

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Specially bad when the person doing the "translation" decides he should add a number of things that where never in the original text, or completely ignore WHOLE paragraphs...

That’s a really dumb move

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Here we go

https://vsbattles.com/threads/abigail-williams-foreigner-addition.152829/

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

And, well, what is it Negative Theology?

I don't understand your question please rephrase

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Now that I think ab it you can argue negative theology for the outer gods in the nasuverse, but then again it'll contradict negative theology because the root is above them.

you said "you can argue negative theology for the outer gods". What is it "negative theology"?

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

you said "you can argue negative theology for the outer gods". What is it "negative theology"?

Oh you're asking me what negative theology is?

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Oh you're asking me what negative theology is?

yea

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

yea

What the root is, God is transcendent, ineffability, Inconceivable and Incomprehensible due to God's absolute transcendence and unreachability both conceptually and physical blah blah
Hence you get the symbol [] which says because God is beyond conception and physical existence you can't speak about God if you affirm anything about God like [God is low 2-C] or whatever you're speaking about God but because you can't speak about God you're not speaking about God you're speaking about something that God supersedes hence to stay quiet and not affirm anything about God is the equivalent of just [].

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

What the root is, God is transcendent, ineffability, Inconceivable and Incomprehensible due to God's absolute transcendence and unreachability both conceptually and physical blah blah
Hence you get the symbol [] which says because God is beyond conception and physical existence you can't speak about God if you affirm anything about God like [God is low 2-C] or whatever you're speaking about God but because you can't speak about God you're not speaking about God you're speaking about something that God supersedes hence to stay quiet and not affirm anything about God is the equivalent of just [].

holy fck

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

holy fck

Pretty sure the original cm has that in the verse

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I just noticed like 3 hours ago that I got reported for my Nasu crts

 

[Tarang123]

I just noticed like 3 hours ago that I got reported for my Nasu crts

Making like 10 CRTs in 2 weeks is a bit weird

 

[Tdjwo]

Making like 10 CRTs in 2 weeks is a bit weird

10? Not even up to 6

 

[Tarang123]

10? Not even up to 6

It's definitely more than that from what I remember.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Pretty sure the original cm has that in the verse

Cthulu mythos has negative theology? Would love an elabroation if you don't mind, but i assume it has something to do with supreme archetype

 

[Tdjwo]

How many verse have Negative Theology? Only ones I know are;

• Nasuverse
• Self Reference Engine
• Journey to the west

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

How many verse have Negative Theology? Only ones I know are;

• Nasuverse
• Self Reference Engine
• Journey to the west

i think god from unsong has it as well. and maybe white light? blue and white verse which was recently deleted has it as well

 

[Tarang123]

How many verse have Negative Theology? Only ones I know are;

• Nasuverse
• Self Reference Engine
• Journey to the west

There are quite a few iirc. I know Twin Peaks has it for one. DC could probably have it through Overvoid.

 

[Tdjwo]

i think god from unsong has it as well. and maybe white light? blue and white verse which was recently deleted has it as well

I don't think Unsong has one. The only thing it has is Cantors' Absolute infinity . Not sure about Blue and White.

 

[Tdjwo]

There are quite a few iirc. I know Twin Peaks has it for one. DC could probably have it through Overvoid.

Overvoid doesn't have apophatic theology. It's contradictory to the verse since the writer exists. And the writer scales above Overvoid

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I don't think Unsong has one. The only thing it has is Cantors' Absolute infinity . Not sure about Blue and White.

From blue and white, i remember this character being transcendent of all definitions, and information in the verse can only be described with negation. Also there is some xianxia called in charge of heaven , but it looks like a bad wattpad fanfic to make characters as cool and strong as possible.

 

[Tdjwo]

Apophatic Theology is a very cool concept when you read about it. Very different from omnipotence.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Apophatic Theology is a very cool concept when you read about it.

i think suggsverse doesn't have it. My friend wanted to ask suggs about apophatic theology in suggsverse

 

[Tarang123]

Overvoid doesn't have apophatic theology. It's contradictory to the verse since the writer exists. And the writer scales above Overvoid

You can scale above someone with Apophatic Theology iirc. You just can't be apophatic to them. Otherwise it just becomes the same cringe omnipotence we stopped using

 

[Tarang123]

Apophatic Theology is a very cool concept when you read about it. Very different from omnipotence.

I mean, yes and no. Yes as in it's a cool concept (one that fits the idea that even if God existed, we wouldn't be able to understand its existence), and no that it's different from omnipotence cause it's literally about God, who is omnipotent. This is just one such quality of his

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

You can scale above someone with Apophatic Theology iirc. You just can't be apophatic to them. Otherwise it just becomes the same cringe omnipotence we stopped using

imagine being apophatic to someone apophatic.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

So i am wondering, about apophatic theology and reality fiction interaction
If something is apophatic in a lower narrative, it is still fictional to a higher narrative right?
Like how the root is apophatic, but it is still fictional compared to us.

 

[Tdjwo]

I mean, yes and no. Yes as in it's a cool concept (one that fits the idea that even if God existed, we wouldn't be able to understand its existence), and no that it's different from omnipotence cause it's literally about God, who is omnipotent. This is just one such quality of his

Calling God omnipotent already discredits his nature. That's what makes omnipoten d different from apophatic theology. You can only describe God through negation be abuse everything you say about God would always be below God.

 

[Tdjwo]

So i am wondering, about apophatic theology and reality fiction interaction
If something is apophatic in a lower narrative, it is still fictional to a higher narrative right?
Like how the root is apophatic, but it is still fictional compared to us.

The Root is basically God. Obviously it's just fiction so yeah, we stomp the root. But let's say we exist in the Nasuverse, we would be nothing to the root. The God we worship is considered apophatic. Just like how the root is apophatic to everything in Nasuverse.

 

[Tdjwo]

You can scale above someone with Apophatic Theology iirc. You just can't be apophatic to them. Otherwise it just becomes the same cringe omnipotence we stopped using

Scaling above someone who is apophatic doesn't make sense especially if it's in the same verse. That contradicts the nature of apophatic theology which is supposed to be ineffable and unreachable.

 

[Tarang123]

Scaling above someone who is apophatic doesn't make sense especially if it's in the same verse. That contradicts the nature of apophatic theology which is supposed to be ineffable and unreachable.

Well no that's not true. Apophatic Theology is supposed to be indescribable, yes, but that doesn't mean you can't scale above it. Unless I missed something that doesn't seem right

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

The Root is basically God. Obviously it's just fiction so yeah, we stomp the root. But let's say we exist in the Nasuverse, we would be nothing to the root. The God we worship is considered apophatic. Just like how the root is apophatic to everything in Nasuverse.

so R/F difference can bypass apophatic theology, then? since even an apophatic being would be just fiction

 

[Tarang123]

Calling God omnipotent already discredits his nature. That's what makes omnipoten d different from apophatic theology. You can only describe God through negation be abuse everything you say about God would always be below God.

Well no, not really because Omnipotence quite literally means all-powerful. What you're describing is literally that, to the point where you've even said that being stronger than someone with apophasis contradicts the very nature of apophasis.

 

[Tdjwo]

Well no, not really because Omnipotence quite literally means all-powerful. What you're describing is literally that, to the point where you've even said that being stronger than someone with apophasis contradicts the very nature of apophasis.

Omnipotence meaning all powerful is pointless when you try descriding God. With apophatic theology,describing God by calling him "all powerful" already discredits his existence. You can't say anything to describe him.