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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Tdjwo said:
There is no such thing as "wall of nothingness". That makes no sense. How can emptiness even have a border? No native japanese speaker can make such blunder unless you are trying to downgrade the verse intentionally which we all know is what Chase wants even if he's incapable of doing so correctly.
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard of a figure of speech or you know fiction working differently...?
 
Tdjwo said:
There is no such thing as "wall of nothingness". That makes no sense. How can emptiness even have a border? No native japanese speaker can make such blunder unless you are trying to downgrade the verse intentionally which we all know is what Chase wants even if he's incapable of doing so correctly.
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This is fiction. Fiction doesn't always obey the normal rules. You also can't have a person that's made up of nothingness, yet Nonexistent Physiology exists nonetheless. This isn't an appropriate argument
 
Tdjwo said:
Ofc he's prolly a Masadaverse fan. Prolly why he wants to downgrade Fate using intentionally incorrect TL.
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Well no he isn't. He WAS a fan. But that's dodging the point. He's read a story that's infamous for being really difficult to read through for those that aren't fluent in Japanese. And he's pretty infamous for being against MTL to begin with, so that should already clear up all doubts.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Can I see the comparison?
Click to expand...
Here is his TL
Infinite is not Emptiness. In order for something to be infinite it must be defined as finite. If the concept of finite is not present then the concept of infinity would be absent. Since everything in the world are finite, therefore the concept of infinity can be observed.

Within the infinity of abyss where Ryougi Shiki was thrown into, she severed the impossibility of finite itself.
However, the concept of finite should not exist within infinity. Therefore it should be impossible to cut through something that doesn't exist right? Thus, escaping from that abyss should of been impossible.
But, if there is no such thing as the concept of finite then it would not infinity, but rather "Emptiness" itself.
Ashamed of himself (Araya Souren), the infinity of abyss which should of been absolute was nothing more than a narrow dark room to his opponent (Shiki)
Click to expand...
Meanwhile, this is the correct TL
Screenshot_20220405_162037.jpg


See how the other scan makes more sense than his own?
 
Oh yeah, I made a mistake about the "wall of nothingness" part. I meant him saying "Infinity of abyss" What does that even mean?
 
Tdjwo said:
Here is his TL

Meanwhile, this is the correct TL
Screenshot_20220405_162037.jpg


See how the other scan makes more sense than his own?
Click to expand...
The two look rather similar and comprehensible. If I were to say something is that the one not by chase seems to be cutting out or simplifying a few things. Can I see original japanese text?
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
The two look rather similar and comprehensible. If I were to say something is that the one not by chase seems to be cutting out or simplifying a few things. Can I see original japanese text?
Click to expand...
No, they don't. Different key words and the context felt off with Chase's. The correct TL gives better and more understandable context.
 
Tdjwo said:
What in the world is the "infinity of abyss?" That has never been used to refer to " " before. Sounds so weird.
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That's just how translation is. You can change it to fit a different interpretation and for it to sound better, but that's a translation and it can definitely fit that kind of grammar.

Tdjwo said:
No, they don't. Different key words and the context felt off with Chase's. The correct TL gives better and more understandable context.
Click to expand...
It's an official translation, it's specifically written to sound better. As for Chase's, there are a few things that don't completely make sense, if I were to be perfectly honest, but that doesn't speak about the quality of the overall translation. Besides, I find it to be an argument in bad faith to try discrediting the fluency of someone's japanese because they make a few weird translations, especially given that there are different factors that lead to someone translating/interpreting something in a different way
 
Tdjwo said:
What in the world is the "infinity of abyss?" That has never been used to refer to " " before. Sounds so weird.
Click to expand...
Infinity of the abyss is referring to the prison she is in.
Within the infinity of abyss where Ryougi Shiki was thrown into, she severed the impossibility of finite itself.
Click to expand...
Ryougi Shiki was immersed in infinity, but found the non-existent limit and severed it.
Click to expand...
These two lines are translating the same thing.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Infinity of the abyss is referring to the prison she is in.


These two lines are translating the same thing.
Click to expand...
The translation should probably be "infinity of the abyss", or at least that sounds like something Nasu would write.
I won't comment on translations without original, but I do know that Nasu is someone that delights in writting in cryptic/flowery language. Multiple possible translations of Kanji without rubytext to specify on etymology can easily make so two translations are different enough in English while being literally the same in japanese.

Rubytext also adds an extra layer to this... The Kanji used may very well be one, but the reading of another may be given, so, the kanji in the text may be "prison" with the reading of "abyss", or vice-versa. TLDR - Translating Japanese, especially Light Novels, is hard. People that don't know (at least) the very basics of japanese have a hard time understanding this, because it is a characteristic that's very unique of the language.

And about "wall of emptiness"... Kara no Kyoukai is normally translated as Boundary of Emptiness, officially IIRC, so.... (Even though "Kara" shouldn't translate as Emptiness normally, as it shouldn't be a noun)
 
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LehenDuo said:
And about "wall of emptiness"... Kara no Kyoukai is normally translated as Boundary of Emptiness, officially IIRC, so.... (Even though "Kara" shouldn't translate as Emptiness normally, as it shouldn't be a noun)
Click to expand...
But I never referred to 空の境界 as "walls of emptiness", I think Tdjwo got confused. And this isn't directed to LehenDuo, but Kara No Kyoukai never got an official translation, all of the translations are from fans of the series. Only the Chinese got an official translation iirc.
 
Chasekilleen said:
But I never referred to 空の境界 as "walls of emptiness", I think Tdjwo got confused. And this isn't directed to LehenDuo, but Kara No Kyoukai never got an official translation, all of the translations are from fans of the series. Only the Chinese got an official translation iirc.
Click to expand...
The name actually was never tranlated, only localized, as Garden of Sinners.
 
Oh, I remmebered why I though it was official - FGO

Ryougi Saber's NP "Mukushiki - Kara no Kyoukai / Amalavijñāna - Boundary of Emptiness"

It's not a novel translation, but same kanji same verse, and FGO is canon, even if EN has very questionable translations sometimes for the story.

Tdjwo said:
Garden of Sinners always sounded goofy to me🤓
Click to expand...
I have a decent amount of headcanon about that, but I think it's very appropriate as Gilgamesh calls Earth as populated by humans "his Garden".
And as a localization, it translates a buddhist term to a christian one, so it fits nicely.

It's a bit chuuni, though.
 
LehenDuo said:
The name actually was never tranlated, only localized, as Garden of Sinners.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but you misunderstood me I think. I meant the novel series itself never got a localised English version. But I do remember that the Chinese officially got translation of the series. I forgot where I saw that though.
 
Newendigo said:
I mean, this is the same author who named a character's ability "Unlimited Blade Works".
And a bunch of powerful aliens after a philosopher...

Nasu, like a bunch japanese hacks, often pair words that sound fancy and cool but either don't make grammar sense, or are an unorthodox usage of them.

"Idea Blood", "Quixotic Tree", "Noble Phantasm", "Imaginary Number Space" are other examples of fancy terms.
Click to expand...
Idea Blood is passable, but the kanji for it are... "what?"
They are translated as Hemonomic Principle, something like that... I mean, what the ****

The one I personally like a lot is ME of Death Perception that changes one kanji for "to stare at something" to "death"
 
I mean 希, the author who writes some of the hardest works that I have read so far has called Kinoko Nasu's writing as hard to understand. Kek.
 
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Yoo, guys, do you think that Yog-Sothoth need his own page on the wiki (or extension of the Abby's page for Yog-Sothoth)?
 
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That means dimensions are also infinitely layered since every concepts including the concepts of dimensions are infinitely layered. The concept of taiji even indicates these.
 
Tarang123 said:
Well no it doesn't. It doesn't say all concepts are layered iirc, and it doesn't say how big this gap between layers is.
Click to expand...
1. Thats just conjecture, if proof of a concept being layered is given without contradiction, you can assume this for the rest.
2. The Taiji is stated to contain and transcend previous states
 
Marshadow29 said:
1. Thats just conjecture, if proof of a concept being layered is given without contradiction, you can assume this for the rest.
2. The Taiji is stated to contain and transcend previous states
Click to expand...
1. Well no, I don't think that's how it works at all. Is it ever stated that all concepts work like this? If not, then it seems a little strange to assume they do.
2. I don't see how that matters
 
Tarang123 said:
Well no it doesn't. It doesn't say all concepts are layered iirc, and it doesn't say how big this gap between layers is.
Click to expand...
This is simple to understand. Everything is immeasurably layered in the Nasuverse.
Screenshot_20220228_175302.jpg


The very fact that there are higher levels of the concept of death means it would take beyond infinite amounts of concepts before it can reach the root. The concept of Taiji, which encompasses all of reality itself, including dimensions is layered in the Nasuverse, which means for it to even be near the root, it has to be layered at the very least, infinitely before it reaches the root.
 
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