Nasuverse CRT: For the Upper Tiers.

[Tam0n3n]

I agree with OP. There's barely any alternate interpretation left. The scans leave no room for doubt in my opinion. Can those in opposition genuinely assert that there is a more logical explanation for ROA's quote?

 

[Maxeez]

Don’t know exactly why I was credited here but I still agree with this, just a reminder to stay calm to get the discussion to go in a good direction.

 

[Tdjwo]

Don’t know exactly why I was credited here

I think it was when the crt was being prepared and you got tagged to contribute but you weren't there.

 

[Georredannea15]

I am still waiting for DT and Agnaa because I am sure they will also say what I have quoted here. According to them and their new standards, I am sure that this would only add +1 dimensionality to the existing cosmology.

 

[Theoretical]

The infinite dimensions do not necessarily need to apply to the universe.

I mean sure ig? If this was somehow rationalized through narrative consistency. Actually no rationalized anywhere in the source material which it actually says the opposite.

Learn to accept people can simply not agree with your conclusions. Period.

I mean I agree with this, but what I find odd is just how these conclusions are just... Arbitrary.

If there's some argument that directly contradicts the conclusion it's not addressed? Rather shut down and arbitrarily so.

I don't think you'd accept a person dismissing your conclusion arbitrarily as well, especially when one party took their time to actually rationalize their stance whilst the other party doesn't.

"this universe"

That also has higher dimensions, whilst her herself she only gained higher dimensional senses. At the end of the day the higher dimensional beings they reference still only exist in "the universe", cause it doesn't make narrative sense for it to be outside of the universe which is practically Incomprehensible to anyone.

Especially roa, atleast gilles can discern a few properties of the things that exist outside of the universe not Roa.

Which we're taking his own knowledge into account and the limits of it.

Once again, wouldn't make sense narratively.

And when they say she's still bound to this universe, it is to say she's subjected to the idea that there'll always be a higher level. It's perfectly feasible considering "the universe" already has higher dimensions, that's why we have gods who are 6D existing in a higher dimensional plane the reverse side of the world, we have the moon cell having several higher dimensional planes Imaginary number of space, the core and the wall defending the core; all of these higher dimensions existing in "the universe" and are subsets of it. However outside of it its hard to discern such things existing because laws of physics usually don't apply outside of the universe and is regarded as beyond reasoning functioning under laws completely different from "the universe".

It's completely unreasonable to assume the hierarchy that's being mentioned applies for various reasons.


I'd like to note that the nasuverse has never been demonstrated to work under universe^universe^universe, that's another reason why saying this is not even reasonable.

We only have texture of humanity=4D already confirmed. Assuming Kiara was a regular 3D being she gained atleast 4D senses or then she found out there were beings superior to her via them being genuine higher dimensional beings.

Then from there, there's never a mention of a 5th dimensional universe, so you can't say universe=4D, then we get another universe=5D.

The only time the 5th dimension was referenced in the Nasuverse was with one of the noble phantasms gilgamesh had which can reach up to the 5th dimension, but even that doesn't mean there exist a universe above the 4th dimensional universe/texture of humanity, it could be that because we have a 6 dimensional plane in the reverse side of the world the 5th dimensional one exists as subset of the 6th and the 6th dimension/reverse side of the world embeds itself on that 5th.

From there, there's no mention of the 7th at all, just a jump to the 8th, via the wall defending the core. Which means this interpretation has no narrative basis at all.

From the 8th we just have "the universe", which contains all of those dimensions higher snd lower ones.

And outside of that there can't exist such things and even if they did, Roa wouldn't know about it as per the nature of the outside world being beyond reasoning, logic and functioning under laws completely different from the universe.

I even one of the statements say everything about the laws of the universe including the known chain hierarchy of dimensions in the universe cannot be applied to the outer universe/outside of the universe.

Even says the universe is the world of intellect and outside is the opposite of that which supports the prior statements of it being beyond reasoning or whatnot.

Roa's statements do fall under intellect as he speaks from his own understanding of the universe and knowledge of it, that can't be applied to the outside of the universe considering he also barely knows how that works. Only gilles and da Vinci post gilles telling her but even with those explanations it's all left vague.

So for various reasons it cannot apply outside of the universe.

Like genuinely excluding this cause I don't see anybody addressing it and the explanation prior to this.

If there hierarchy worked with Universe>Universe.

Then our universe that we know of "the universe", wouldn't have higher dimensions. The hierarchy would just start outside of it and "the universe" would be 4D.

But "the universe" already has higher dimensions, stretching up to 8 dimensions. Meaning the hierarchy of higher dimensional beings starts that's there, hence we can't have Universe +1 dimension> universe +1.

That has little to no basis in the source material at all quite literally 0, we also have direct statements that contradict that. The outside of the universe is Incomprehensible and isn't even a plane of intellect, Roa can't make a knowledge on something where knowledge doesn't apply. Heck Roa doesn't even know anything about the outer universe and is speaking at best of what he knows about the universe.

But even she is still bound by her material form――still bound to this universe.

There's never once in the statements where he references the outside of the universe, we know he doesn't even know about that as of now outside of gilles in fgo. This doesn't make sense.

On the side note I do agree tdjwo should come down, but if I'm gonna be neutral it is infuriating when there's a clear difference in interpretation between two parties but one party is willing to provide a basis as to why their interpretation holds but the other party doesn't feel the need to do so and just arbitrarily concludes on their interpretation holding.

• "There is no upper bound to human perception――no end to the path toward omnipotence."
• Kiara has "higher dimensional senses"
• Kiara > 3-D
• Kiara "is still bound by her material form――still bound to this universe."

There is no connection between them.

You completely saw my message and ignored it when I directly explained how it's derived tho which is pretty odd but Ight.

1. Roa doesn't know about the outer universe, whatever he says as such pertains to the universe of intellect that we know of.

2. The outside of the universe is repeatedly said to be beyond reasoning and whatever applies to our universe doesn't to the outer universe (da Vinci and gilles statements again) >we already know our universe already has higher dimensions from 6 to 8 and its own hierarchy of dimensions. If the universe has a hierarchy of dimensions even when not said to be infinite because what applies to it doesn't apply to the outside the outside wouldn't have it.

3. The outside of the universe doesn't work under the laws of physics, nobody can communicate to it snd lastly its beyond reasoning again.

 

[Theoretical]

Can those in opposition genuinely assert that there is a more logical explanation for ROA's quote?

I hope so, but so far I haven't seen anything

 

[BoastJr]

I hope so, but so far I haven't seen anything

1-A plunuts > Pcincipals > Concepts

Very Existant root soloes

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't think you'd accept a person dismissing your conclusion arbitrarily as well, especially when one party took their time to actually rationalize their stance whilst the other party doesn't.

Actually, I'm fairly known to be one of the peeps that unironically just shrugs and move on if I can't convince others of my stance. You won't believe my take on power scaling which fundamentally goes against everything done on the wiki

I have been outvoted regardless of how much nonsensical I may find an argument, or even that they are straight wrong on the way they interpret things; I've also gone against multiple upgrades regarding verses I support that end up passing, and the opposite has happened as well. I accept I can't convince everyone of my points, nor do I get heated for it. It is what it is.

 

[Theoretical]

1-A plunuts > Pcincipals > Concepts

Very Existant root soloes

Solos weak root on very existent in misfits

Actually, I'm fairly known to be one of the peeps that unironically just shrugs and move on if I can't convince others of my stance

Ight that's kinda funny.

But anyways, you didn't try to convince anyone you just accepted that interpretation arbitrarily tho.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Ight that's kinda funny.

But anyways, you didn't try to convince anyone you just accepted that interpretation arbitrarily tho.

I came to my personal conclusion that simply aligned with Firestorm.

 

[Theoretical]

I came to my personal conclusion that simply aligned with Firestorm.

OH? So regardless of the source material contradicting and that practically it having no basis Inverse wise it's okay?

I have been outvoted regardless of how much nonsensical I may find an argument, or even that they are straight wrong on the way they interpret things; I've also gone against multiple upgrades regarding verses I support that end up passing, and the opposite has happened as well. I accept I can't convince everyone of my points, nor do I get heated for it. It is what it is

Also what was supposed to be the take away from this, was it to address tdjwo's behavior or does it somehow pertain to whether or not this thread gets accepted?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

OH? So regardless of the source material contradicting and that practically it having no basis Inverse wise it's okay?

Also what was supposed to be the take away from this, was it to address tdjwo's behavior or does it somehow pertain to whether or not this thread gets accepted?

Ngl you should chill out before it escalates more.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Also what was supposed to be the take away from this, was it to address tdjwo's behavior or does it somehow pertain to whether or not this thread gets accepted?

That your comment doesn't apply to me.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

If a staff isn't gonna budge on a point there's no point in arguing more best you can do is wait for more staff and explain to them and see if other staff change their mind based on the other arguments.

I recommend waiting for Shadow tho since apparently he's cooking

 

[Ped2018]

You won't believe my take on power scaling which fundamentally goes against everything done on the wiki

Lephyr is rising up the ranks just so they can delete the whole site when they become an bureaucrat

 

[Theoretical]

Ngl you should chill out before it escalates more.

It's just a question I'm calm.

That your comment doesn't apply to me.

OH, nvm I know what you're talking about.

Lephyr is rising up the ranks just so they can delete the whole site when they become an bureaucrat

 

[KLOL506]

@CrimsonStarFallen @Paul_Frank @CloverDragon03 @Migue79

 

[Tdjwo]

@CrimsonStarFallen @Paul_Frank @CloverDragon03 @Migue79

Migue already agreed btw.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I recommend waiting for Shadow tho since apparently he's cooking

Not in this thread I am afraid. Just waiting for a conclusion on where Roa's statement puts the cosmology.

I am still waiting for DT and Agnaa because I am sure they will also say what I have quoted here. According to them and their new standards, I am sure that this would only add +1 dimensionality to the existing cosmology.

Just pointing out that you seem to have misread the quote from Agnaa you brought up. "No matter how many dimensions" is given as an example of acceptable exceptions which are "very explicit that they generalise".
"No matter how many dimensions" is not among the statements that will be nerfed to cosmology + 1, which are mentioned afterward in a new sentence.

The quote with emphasis:

tl;dr of the new standards seems to be that almost nothing makes the jump to 1-A without already establishing a High 1-B construct. The few things that could are very explicit that they generalise, like "no matter how many dimensions". Just being "beyond any dimensions", "source of dimensions", "concept of dimensions", etc. doesn't do more than a +1 over the existing cosmology.

---

So my thoughts on the thread:

• There appears to be general agreement that the statement mentions the existence of infinite levels of transcendence.
• The controversial part is the claim that this endless hierarchy (including the Demonic Heavens) is part of the universe that Roa and humans experience.

1- The argument that Kiara is bound to the universe not by choice, but because higher dimensional beings are inherently bound.​

This argument is weak. It is clearly indicated that she remain as part of the universe by choice:

But even she is still bound by her material form――still bound to this universe. As for why―――" [... Kiara explaining she learned how insignificant she is ...] 'As such, I remain here in this world. Small though it may be, I find far greater purpose within myself here than on the other side...' "Quite the silly story. As soon as she became able to sense the 'outside' of the world, she felt her own powerlessness more acutely than ever before.

Kiara makes a decision ('As such') to remain in the world, meaning that she had to option to leave it as a higher dimensional being.
Furthermore, Roa calls the Demonic Heavens the 'outside' of the world, not as part of it.

2- It is argued that Roa cannot speak of something outside of his comprehension, therefore what he is speaking of is part of the universe.​

But he is not speaking in-depth about the nature of something or claiming that he can fully conceive it, so this doesn't really follow. Also, it is not indicated that Roa acquired this knowledge himself; how it is acquired is not specified and could have come from many sources, for example Kiara could've easily told the Church about the cosmology.

Furthermore, it is mention among the guidebooks that True Demons in Demonic Heavens are beyond human comprehension, which would make them outside the universe by the logic of the argument used:

Humans think of God as a being who is all-knowing and all-powerful, but a demon is an existence that cannot be comprehended through human intelligence or knowledge. The concept of what a demon is lay within reach, but it is part of an abyss that is impossible to truly comprehend.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Not in this thread I am afraid. Just waiting for a conclusion on where Roa's statement puts the cosmology.

Still cooked

 

[Tdjwo]

Not in this thread I am afraid. Just waiting for a conclusion on where Roa's statement puts the cosmology.

Let me guess, the Gods and Outer gods?

 

[Migue79]

Migue already agreed btw.

Mmm… I never outright agreed. I even expressed minor skepticism albeit for different concerns than here, concerns which have been addressed by both you and Theoretical thankfully.

Although, with the info Shadow dropped and some other brought up concerns, I think I’ll wait for this discussion to brew a bit more before definitively saying if I agree or not here. Although I have no eval rights so it means **** all if I agree or not in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Tdjwo]

Mmm… I never outright agreed. I even expressed minor skepticism albeit for different concerns than here, concerns which have been addressed by both you and Theoretical thankfully.

So....you agreed? Or not?

Although, with the info Shadow dropped and some other brought up concerns, I think I’ll wait for this discussion to brew a bit more before definitively saying if I agree or not here. Although I have no eval rights so it means **** all if I agree or not in the grand scheme of things.

Aight.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Let me guess, the Gods and Outer gods?

BTW, Neco arc is apparently called the Avatar of the multiverse
だがｙｏｕはアタシがその『マルチの証明』だと言う。『マルチの化身』とも。
Okay, but you said I was living proof for this multi-stuff. "The Avatar of the Multiverse" or something.
参りましたなあ。そこに気がつくとは、なかなかどうしてミスに置けないお方だ。
You sure got me good. Never thought someone would catch on. Never would've pegged you as being so clever.
(Neco-Arc - Melty Blood Type Lumina)

 

[Theoretical]

But he is not speaking in-depth about the nature of something or claiming that he can fully conceive it, so this doesn't really follow. Also, it is not indicated that Roa acquired this knowledge himself; how it is acquired is not specified and could have come from many sources, for example Kiara could've easily told the Church about the cosmology

That's an assumption.

In two ways.
1. Roa could've been told.
2. Kiara knows about the cosmology.

Kiara has never been show to know about the outer universe atleast if we go by fgo, fate extra ccc and even in tsukihime the remake at all. It cannot follow that Kiara told the Church and by extension Roa knew about the cosmology including the outer universe. The first parts of the messages are not really that important to respond to.

Furthermore, it is mention among the guidebooks that True Demons in Demonic Heavens are beyond human comprehension, which would make them outside the universe by the logic of the argument used

No? In fate extra ccc we fight one, Kiara doesn't seem to be beyond human comprehension to me. The argument is different because she doesn't even even exist in the outer universe you didn't even try to invalidate the actual source material suggesting that the outside of the universe is indeed beyond human comprehension. It was just an assumption +1 extra argument which is clearly contradicted by the source material.

Kiara who was a true demon Kiara was described by hakuno various times after her Ascension, and not just by her but by other characters various times. She's not beyond human comprehension.

Outer Gods who exist in the outer universe are, they are consistently portrayed to be as such and thus far I have no seen a contradiction as opposed to Kiara.

So no.

 

[Theoretical]

Although, with the info Shadow dropped and some other brought up concerns, I think I’ll wait for this discussion to brew a bit more before definitively saying if I agree or not here.

Understandable

 

[Theoretical]

Kiara makes a decision ('As such') to remain in the world, meaning that she had to option to leave it as a higher dimensional being.
Furthermore, Roa calls the Demonic Heavens the 'outside' of the world, not as part of it.

I already addressed this beforehand, when they mean outside of this world they clearly refer to dimension, as they say she become omnipotent in this dimension (either a reference to humanities texture or just 3 mathematical dimensions), gods are Higher Dimensional but don't exist outside of the universe they exist in the reverse side of the world. Her being said to be outside of this "world" is likely referring to humanities texture which is only 3D spatially with 1 temporal dimensions that's what "this dimension" denotes for anyways cause that's currently where Roa is at.

The divine spirits and gods also have similar statements of existing outside of human history and watching over it in higher dimensions, now is ascending into a singular higher dimension somehow now enough to be beyond the universe in the Nasuverse now?

The statement of true demons being beyond the universe shouldn't even be used. This different ways to be beyond the universe, non of the true demons that have showed up live up to that hype.

They get defeated by mythological Mystic Code amped servants, that's the lowest in the scaling chain and at best is 8D, if they were truly outside/beyond of the universe I don't see why they'd lose to characters that are not beyond the universe and only have scaling for higher dimensions which exist as a subset of the universe (6D/8D).

One way for a being to be depicted to be beyond the universe is either through range/attack potency/existence atleast within the context of the nasuverse.

1. Ort is clearly shown to be beyond the universe himself. His spiders can reach to the throne of heroes which exist outside and beyond the universe even when he himself exists in the universe.
2. Outer gods scale beyond the universe via existence, ap and even range. They exist beyond and outside of it, can interact with the throne to forcibly summon servants and they are repeatedly said to be beyond comprehension by the standards of the laws of the universe not just knowledge of the characters (this is attributed to their party when da Vinci says if know is power the unknown is more powerful.
3. Arc, she has reached into the akashic records once I suppose. Which the akashic records encompasses reality in its totality. However it was hax but this is just a depiction of range.

True demons have nothing like this outside of one hype statement, true demon Kiara herself has never had any showing like this or any other supporting statements to go by her

• Being beyond human comprehension (it's already contradicted)
• Her being beyond the universe.
• There's also this thing of outer gods powers driving to people into madness as a part of them being beyond human comprehension, they just have a better basis and consistency. So to use another character who lacks that doesn't invalidate how this should be interpreted.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

If you need any explanations about the Outer Gods and the cosmology of the two universes (Our Universe and the Outer Universe) I can help.

 

[Vietthai96]

To be fair, there should be a cosmology blog

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

To be fair, there should be a cosmology blog

I'll handle that.

 

[Theoretical]

If you need any explanations about the Outer Gods and the cosmology of the two universes (Our Universe and the Outer Universe) I can help.

We already did kinda go over that

The term universe is contextual based it could refer to the texture of humanity which was said to have only 3 vectors of space and 1 as a separate one hence 4D.

She obviously isn't beyond "the" the universe. The people who scale to it are Zeus and they started freaking out when Zeus was said to have the power to destroy so if wouldn't make sense for them to freak out when people like Kiara who are way below the scaling chain were to scale to that; I still question the validity of the Zeus claim tho.

This is pretty reasonable, but the hierarchy of higher dimensional beings can't apply to things outside of the universe, the outer universe was described as being beyond reasoning and how the laws of the universe are completely not applicable to it so presumably even the notion of higher dimensions.

This is why inhabitants of it like outer gods are also said to be above logic, can break logic and are said to be Incomprehensible even through Limitless wisdom

• Outer universe stuff
• Outer Gods stuff

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

We already did kinda go over that

There are some interesting things like Dreamlands that exists as bridge between both Universes acting as non-physical space that connects them

 

[Tdjwo]

To be fair, there should be a cosmology blog

I've said it a billion times in the past.

 

[Georredannea15]

Not in this thread I am afraid. Just waiting for a conclusion on where Roa's statement puts the cosmology.


Just pointing out that you seem to have misread the quote from Agnaa you brought up. "No matter how many dimensions" is given as an example of acceptable exceptions which are "very explicit that they generalise".
"No matter how many dimensions" is not among the statements that will be nerfed to cosmology + 1, which are mentioned afterward in a new sentence.

The quote with emphasis:

tl;dr of the new standards seems to be that almost nothing makes the jump to 1-A without already establishing a High 1-B construct. The few things that could are very explicit that they generalise, like "no matter how many dimensions". Just being "beyond any dimensions", "source of dimensions", "concept of dimensions", etc. doesn't do more than a +1 over the existing cosmology.

---

So my thoughts on the thread:

• There appears to be general agreement that the statement mentions the existence of infinite levels of transcendence.
• The controversial part is the claim that this endless hierarchy (including the Demonic Heavens) is part of the universe that Roa and humans experience.

1- The argument that Kiara is bound to the universe not by choice, but because higher dimensional beings are inherently bound.​

This argument is weak. It is clearly indicated that she remain as part of the universe by choice:

But even she is still bound by her material form――still bound to this universe. As for why―――" [... Kiara explaining she learned how insignificant she is ...] 'As such, I remain here in this world. Small though it may be, I find far greater purpose within myself here than on the other side...' "Quite the silly story. As soon as she became able to sense the 'outside' of the world, she felt her own powerlessness more acutely than ever before.

Kiara makes a decision ('As such') to remain in the world, meaning that she had to option to leave it as a higher dimensional being.
Furthermore, Roa calls the Demonic Heavens the 'outside' of the world, not as part of it.

2- It is argued that Roa cannot speak of something outside of his comprehension, therefore what he is speaking of is part of the universe.​

But he is not speaking in-depth about the nature of something or claiming that he can fully conceive it, so this doesn't really follow. Also, it is not indicated that Roa acquired this knowledge himself; how it is acquired is not specified and could have come from many sources, for example Kiara could've easily told the Church about the cosmology.

Furthermore, it is mention among the guidebooks that True Demons in Demonic Heavens are beyond human comprehension, which would make them outside the universe by the logic of the argument used:

Humans think of God as a being who is all-knowing and all-powerful, but a demon is an existence that cannot be comprehended through human intelligence or knowledge. The concept of what a demon is lay within reach, but it is part of an abyss that is impossible to truly comprehend.

In general this is just a summary and Agnaa was talking about a cosmology that is always growing dimensionally, if you read the rest of the thread you will see DT and Agnaa's comments about mathematical concepts and always growing dimensions or like that.

 

[Tdjwo]

BTW, Neco arc is apparently called the Avatar of the multiverse
だがｙｏｕはアタシがその『マルチの証明』だと言う。『マルチの化身』とも。
Okay, but you said I was living proof for this multi-stuff. "The Avatar of the Multiverse" or something.
参りましたなあ。そこに気がつくとは、なかなかどうしてミスに置けないお方だ。
You sure got me good. Never thought someone would catch on. Never would've pegged you as being so clever.
(Neco-Arc - Melty Blood Type Lumina)

What does this mean? That there are multiverses within the textures?

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

What does this mean? That there are multiverses within the textures?

Considering this statement is SO vague and considering that piece of shit called "cosmology" within Nasuverse, this statement can mean literally anything related to the term "Multiverse"

 

[1Nairove]

Yes, in this discussion, staff and op parties have expressed their views to some extent properly and well, thanks for that, but there is no need to talk further with people who do not accept this screening, after all, what we are doing here is a discussion and the reason we disagree (staff and As op parties) there may be information that may be missing from each other, but in the end, what needs to be done here is that instead of more staff, only "knowledgeable" staff should come, so although it makes sense to tag Crimson or Paul on this issue, both of them have not been active on the site for a long time, so Agnaa or It will be more helpful if people like DT or Ultima come, I mean, there is no need to extend the subject further and make a 5-6 page CRT and again to have a regular and level discussion

Thanks for your interest

 

[Regidian]

The infinite dimensions do not necessarily need to apply to the universe.

Do you accept them existing at least? For the universe part, i can understand lack of explicit proof

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Neutral for now, but leaning towards being okay with Ultima's compromise, though might change my mind depending on if DT, Agnaa or Executor N0 comment.

 

[Tdjwo]

I appreciate the smooth and constant activities going on here. Just to let everyone know, Ultima already claims he agrees with the High 1B statement but doesn't fully understand whether it ties in with the Universe or not. So I explained why it does tie with the Universe by making this comment below which he hasn't seen and replied;

Roa claims that there's NO END to HUMAN PERCEPTION and NO END TO THE PATH TO OMNIPOTENCE. He then further makes it freakin' clear that NO MATTER HOW TRANSCENDENT SOMEONE BECOMES, THERE IS ALWAYS A HIGHER LEVEL.

Now the capitalized parts are the most critical parts of the scan.

1. NO END- simply means endless. That should be common knowledge.
2. HUMAN PERCEPTION- simply means perception. How we perceive or sense things.
3. PATH TO OMNIPOTENCE- Omnipotence means the ability to do anything. "Path" literally means the way or direction to something. In this context, Omnipotence is restricted to the levels of dimensions, which means someone with a Higher D has a higher level of omnipotence than someone with a lower D. And the levels of it are also ENDLESS as it says in the scan; NO END TO THE PATH TO OMNIPOTENCE.
4. NO MATTER HOW TRANSCENDENT SOMEONE BECOMES, THERE IS ALWAYS A HIGHER LEVEL- This, this is literally what makes it 100% clear that it's an endless hierarchy because it explicitly states that no matter how "Transcendent" someone becomes, there would always be an higher level. That's an endless hierarchy right there.

Now, the OP already suspected some people would try pulling the "how do you know it was referring to higher dimensions or how does it tie in with a structure that exists in the verse" card and fortunately for them, the scan afterwards gave a very perfect example. It makes an example out of Kiara, who had higher dimensional senses, which ties in with "human perception having no ends" and how she was "omnipotent to 3D" which ties in with "omnipotence having no ends". But despite having does abilitities, she was still bound to the universe itself.

That means the reason there's no end to omnipotence, and human perception, no matter how transcendent someone became was because the Universe itself housed endless amounts of higher D's which is why someone like Kiara was still bound to the universe. This means even if Kiara kept on transcending higher D's endlessly, she would STILL be bound to the universe as there is no end to transcendence and there would always be an higher level. So in order for her to successfully surpass the universe, she needs to be at least Low 1A. That is why the Universe is tiered at High 1B.

It ties in with the wiki's description of High 1B;

High 1-B: High Hyperverse level
Characters or objects that can universally affect, create and/or destroy structures whose size is equivalent to a countably infinite number of qualitative sizes above a universal model, usually represented in fiction by endless hierarchies of layers of existence, each succeeding one completely trivializing the previous into insignificance, or more generally a space with countably infinite dimensions.

So if you agree with Ultima regarding the universe, but haven't or couldn't see my comment regarding it, then this is it. Thanks.