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Naruto Upgrades Part 2: 5-B Base Naruto and Sasuke

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Wow this is honestly quite sad. Yes the 6B was accepte just we changed it to Unknown cause of the debate of Narutos chakra being golden (I remembered it cause I was there). U ignored the anime being supporting canon so that means that Fused Momo kicked and hit RinneSharogan/SOSP so again that's a BIG no right theroe and u say that he's Durability is 5B so that also means he's that tier in AP so yay! (Don't make up something that just cause his durability is 5B doesn't mean he isn't 5B physically cause that ain't true. It's really funny how u tried to find some way to counteract the about Kaguya being 5B but Fused Momo isn't BUT NARUTO/SASUKE NEEDED SOSP/RINNESHARIGAN TO BEAT HIM this is the most debunked think I've had ever had to argue in my life and the story was literally full of bad writing in general. NOPE! it was already confirmed that tha anime was canon and we see it as supporting canon so everything that happened in the fight scene shows something clearer and it's canon so don't try the filler thing cause it ain't gonna work when it was confirmed itself that it was basically canon (u can't go against something like that to win the argument)

This is laughable....like truly truly laughable to the point the I could throw up my guts cause of this. The Fused alien literally shows EXTREMELY casual 7A attacks and people are literally agreeing to stuff that was bad writing in general....
 
Activating/deactivating Rinnegan doesn't change Sasuke's physical stats and chakra levels and Naruto has more chakra. Sasuke who attack base Naruto in my scan is using Rinnegan.

Months ago I disagree and create a thread about that Naruto and Sasuke should scale to their feats, not from SPCT and it rejected by Kep read 8 and 9. Until you create RT about this and it accepted they scale to SPCT.

Six Paths Yin Power and Six Paths Yang Power completely different from Six Paths Chakra, Six Paths Sage Mode and Six Paths Senjutsu.

In the first scan, he says ''chakra'' which refers to SPC (not Six Paths Yin and Six Paths Yang Powers) and because of that chakra Naruto and Sasuke are able to fight against JJ Madara and Kaguya.

Hagoromo give Sasuke his chakra+Rinnegan (not awakened but received) and Naruto his chakra+SPSM /not awakened but gifted/granted \ (Madara who has SPC after revived /and after becoming JJ/ didn't gain SPSM /or something similar/ after absorbing Hashi SM)

In 2. scan: Kaguya to looks to Sasuke to see his left hand and Naruto to see his right hand and sees their Six Paths Yin Power and Six Paths Yang Power because which is where their Six Paths Yang Power (Naruto's right hand) and Six Paths Yin Power (Sasuke's left hand) reside. She says ''Jutsu'' which is talking about she SPCT jutsu use by person(s) who has Six Paths Yin Power and Six Paths Yang Power and she knows the SPCT because her sons sealed her that way.

So, you are saying that Naruto and Sasuke don't have SPSM, SPS, and SPC anymore?

I'm sorry this reply is a mess but I don't have the time right now so if there is not something is understandable (like what the heck he says you say) I will try to more clear and sort this mess later.
 
BlackeJan said:
Wow this is honestly quite sad.
Click to expand...
That I must repeat my points and discuss with people who refrain from proper formatting while be allergic to providing scans for their claims? I guess it is quite sad.

Yes the 6B was accepte just we changed it to Unknown cause of the debate of Narutos chakra being golden (I remembered it cause I was there).
You can discuss that when it is accepted and added to his profile then.

U ignored the anime being supporting canon so that means that Fused Momo kicked and hit RinneSharogan/SOSP so again that's a BIG no right theroe and u say that he's Durability is 5B so that also means he's that tier in AP so yay! (Don't make up something that just cause his durability is 5B doesn't mean he isn't 5B physically cause that ain't true.
I didn't ignore it, I just explained that you're incorrectly using the anime.

Fused Momoshiki did kick Rinne-Sharingan Sasuke; however, Rinne-Sharingan Sasuke doesn't have 5-B durability feats to say he's 5-B in durability. He's listed as 5-B from Perfect Susano'o from his teenage profile.

The whole point of this thread was trying to make Sasuke physically 5-B to make Base Naruto 5-B.

It's really funny how u tried to find some way to counteract the about Kaguya being 5B but Fused Momo isn't BUT NARUTO/SASUKE NEEDED SOSP/RINNESHARIGAN TO BEAT HIM this is the most debunked think I've had ever had to argue in my life and the story was literally full of bad writing in general.
Where did I try to find some way to counter Kaguya being 5-B? Your sentence doesn't make sense and implies you didn't comprehend my sections about Kaguya.

I literally said:

Kaguya is 5-B for being greater than Hagoromo who is 5-B for providing the Chakra that gave SPSM Naruto and Rinne-Sharingan Sasuke's 5-B feat.

Where Fused Momoshiki sits in this sale is he can take hits from SPSM Naruto and that his Lava Golem overpowered the Kurama manifestation.

Everything else he has consistently lower stat feats and no actual 5-B feat for

NOPE! it was already confirmed that tha anime was canon and we see it as supporting canon so everything that happened in the fight scene shows something clearer and it's canon so don't try the filler thing cause it ain't gonna work when it was confirmed itself that it was basically canon (u can't go against something like that to win the argument)
The anime is supporting canon, not the main canon. There is a difference between the two and you should understand this to avoid future confusions such as this one. The manga is the main canon with the anime being an adaption, like any adaption it pads events out with filler to extend it into a propert 21 minute anime episode format.

This is laughable....like truly truly laughable to the point the I could throw up my guts cause of this. The Fused alien literally shows EXTREMELY casual 7A attacks and people are literally agreeing to stuff that was bad writing in general....
It is quite laughable indeed you could say.

@Mindovin

Yeah I had some issues reading your thread, but I believe I got the entire point of it.

To summarize, I'm not saying Naruto and Sasuke no longer have Six Paths Sage Chakra, but that the specific large amount of Chakra that Hagoromo gave them was for the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, which is why the symbols from their hand (that Kaguya identified for us holds a large amount of Chakra) disappeared.
 
I don't believe Naruto and Sasuke were even using that chakra during battle in the first place besides the instances where Naruto healed guy and kakashi
 
AstralKing7 said:
I don't believe Naruto and Sasuke were even using that chakra during battle in the first place besides the instances where Naruto healed guy and kakashi
Click to expand...
Naruto Uzumaki (Part II) kicking the Madara Uchiha's true sicking ball would have been At least 5-C

https://www.**********.com/naruto/672/16

Also, slightly amp

https://www.**********.com/naruto/673/5

https://www.**********.com/naruto/673/7
 
Okay it seems like their was a misconception with Narutos keys. Base Naruto tanked his own chakra which was all of it if I remember correctly. Naruto didn't amplify his base with Kuramas chakra because we would have obviously seen it around his body. When Naruto one shotted Momoshiki he used his own chakra not Kuramas.

Honestly I don't remember how he got put at unknown because the only time he borrows power in his base is when he one shotted Toneri.
 
He never one shotted Momoshiki with Kuramas chakra nor did he use Kuramas chakra to tank his own chakra. That's a huge assumption. Momoshiki was weakened in the first place.
 
Well there ya go! There's the proof that Base Naruto tanked a 6B explosion that that debunks the 7A thing completely!

@IMade

That counteract on the Kaguya is cause u basically thought it'd ok to leave her 5B cause she took on two of them but not Fuse Momo when he took on two of the same forms that's also 5B! Idk even know why u say that it's basically filler when literally it was following the fight scene (book vs animation they just wanted u to see more clearly) and haveing it be supporting canon makes it even better (filler is when something THAT WAS NEVER PLANNED be animate like a entire new arc....this is a fight scene that had not once changed from just how it was in the book)
 
@IMade

1.)I have replied to response, multiple ******* times in both threads. I'm extremely irritated because you keep saying this false bullshit about me when all it takes is to scroll the **** up and read the damn thread(s). So yes, it must be too hard to scroll up for you since you clearly haven't done so. And I'm not going to be posting new scans because we've both posted the SAME damn scans multiple times now.

2.)In regards to Sasuke tanking a Limbos hit, yes, that is exactly what happens. For starters, I don't know if think you're talking to Elementary School kids or just someone who is blind, but anybody can see through the BS you're claiming here. You are the one making assumptions here. For starters, the scan doesn't even show Sasuke completing a swing.

Facts:

  • Sasuke has his sword raised on his right side.
  • He's shown Reacting
  • He's knocked back with his sword lowered on his right side.
Here is your misconception about the feat:

  • If Sasuke had made a successful swing his sword would be lowered to his left or lowered to his right at AN ANGLE DIRECTLY CORRELATING TO THE IMPACT AREA And neither are the case.
Factually, Sasukes arms are not at angles to suggest he intercepted with his Chidori Blade. This is not an assumptions, it's a fact, look at the damn scan. His arms are at angles suggesting he was hit / braced to be hit. Sasuke has no visible damage because, he's physically comparable to Naruto (Which is Consistently Portrayed across all Boruto Mediums: Novels, Movies, Anime, and the movie is a direct portrayal of the characters from both Kishi and Kodachi while the anime is a portrayal overseen and approved by Kodachi himself)

I have made no assumptions here, only you IMade, and it offends me when you claim I have when clearly i have not. So when you invoke "Occams Razor", it actually works against you as you are making the assumptions that:

  • Sasuke Swung his sword (Which is not shown)
  • Sasuke Intercepted a Limbo with his sword (Which the scan factually disproves as the angles of his arms don't match this nition you're pushing)
In conclusion for this feat, your argument here is headcanon and disproven by the scan itself.

3.)SPSM isn't a Significant boost, as proven several times now, let's look at the Power Sets:

  • Base Naruto = 50% Hagoromo Chakra
  • Base SPSM = 50% Hagoromo Chakra (Naruto only used the Individual Chakra of the Biju Here for Ninjutsu only)
  • SPSM Chakra Mode (War Arc) = 50% Hagoromo Chakra + Fractions of Biju 1-8 Chakras + 50% Kyuubi Chakra
  • SPSM Chakra Mode (Boruto Era) = 50% Hagoromo Chakra + 100% Kyuubi Chakra
Note: Combining the Chakra of All biju results in Six Paths Chakra. So War Arc SPSM Chakra Mode has an Unquantifiable Fractio of Additional SPC when using all of the Biju's Chakra, not significant enough make a difference. And 100% Kurama's Chakra is 6-B, which is an insignificant addition to 5-B Energy, so SPSM Chakra Mode Naruto from Boruto's era is insignificantly stronger than even his base, let alone Sasuke.

So, Yes, Base Naruto's AP and Durability are Equal to SPSM Chakra Mode with the War Arc Version being an Unquantifiable Fractio above his Base and Sasuke and Boruto Era version being insignificantly stronger due to Kurama's Chakra Mode.

All of this means, yes, SPSM is not a "significant boost" nor is my argument anywhere near "baseless", meaning Kaguya tossing Naruto and Sasuke and hurting both is a legitimate 5-B feat for both Naruto and Sasuke.

Regarding your Momoshiki fight analysis, it doesn't change what I said. SPSM Chakra Mode here is insignificantly stronger than his Base due to an additionsl 6-B energy. Base Naruto wasn't on the offensive against Momoshiki. He blocked a hit, tanked a hit and dodged 2 hits before needing his Chakra mode to close the speed gap, because yes, that's the only thing it enhances. Base Naruto throughout the entire series has been overall slower than Base Sasuke. This is best illustrated in VoTE 2 where both Dashed at Each other at the same time, but Naruto barely moved 5 feet whereas Sasuke moved from Mafara's head to Hashirama's. Momoshiki is comparable to Chakra Mode Naruto and Sasuke in speed, Base Naruto can only react, but reaction alone is not enough to keep up completely. This is illustrated in the Manga and excellently portrayed in the Boruto Anime (Which Kep himself accepts as Supporting Canon, yet you continue to ignore...)

Facts:

  • Sasuke has 2 legitimate 5-B Durability feats
  • Sasuke is consistently portrayed as Physically equal to SPSM Chakra Mode Naruto and Momoshiki by both the creatot of the series and author of Boruto.
  • SPSM Chakra Mode is not a Significant boost over His Base or Sasuke
  • Base Naruto is shown comparable to Sasuke Physically in all but Speed
Let's examine the fights now you're trying to use to mislead people.

Vs Madara:

  • Both Naruto and Sasuke injured the same Madara (Single Rinnegan Eye JJ Madara)
  • Naruto destroyed Madara's Meteors and Fought his Limbos
  • Sasuke Destroyed a Single Meteor and Tanked a hit from his Limbos.
This doesn't prove Naruto is stronger than Sasuke. How many times do I have to tell you, AoE =/= AP, and yes, your argument about the meteors attempts to Assert that Because Naruto could destroy more meteors at once than Sasuke, he's supperior....no. Naruto simply has better AoE. And in regards to him taking on the Limbos, Sasuke doesn't use Shadow Clones. It makes sense Naruto would take them on 4 v 4 and not 4 v 1. This doesn't prove Naruto is superior, just that he has a better arsenal in these situations.

Vs Kaguya:

  • Naruto has faster reaction speed than Sasuke, sure.
  • Naruto has abilities that can amplify his Stats, Sasuke doesn't. Sure. Sasuke is still Equal to SPSM Naruto w/o Steam Release.
  • Naruto Blitzing and Ripping off Kaguya's arm is an outlier. Especially when his strongest technique is only able to do superficial damage to her, once she has wasted a lot of Chakra and Stamina. Further more, Before this, Naruto couldn't even scratch her while being amped by Steam Release when she was holding back against him.
  • In regards to the Chakra punch clashes, Naruto was going all out against Kaguya Holding Back with a Smirk and still overpowered him.
Naruto outperforms Sasuke against, Kaguya, not going to front, but nothing that Suggests he's superior. Sasuke with PS could fight Kaguya 1 v 1 for a short time, even tanking her Physical assault while Obito was dying. It was only destroyed when she resulted to use Chakra Blasts (Ninjutsu) which again, exceeds Physical capabilities.

No, nothing Suggests Naruto can "easily" destroy Sasuke's PS.

  • His Best Feats against Kaguya is Steam Release (Again, Kaguya was holding Back and unharmed by a Direct Hit) and his Strongest Jutsu which Caused Superficial Damage to a weakened Kaguya (Same Kaguya Sasuke could Fight 1 v 1 before forcing her to use Ninjutsu.
In VoTE 2, Sasuke without Susanoo could hurt Naruto. Naruto needed Kurama's full Avatar match PS. Granted Naruto didn't have Killing Intent, he was holding back too much as they both where clash with Jutsu capable of harming both their Avatars, to which Sasuke claims isn't close to enough to beat him.

So, while Naruto outperforms against Kaguya, he's nowhere near strong enough to beat Sasuke casually or easily, this is headcanon. Again, SPSM Chakra Mode Naruto (War Arc) is only stronger than Sasuke by an Unquantifiable Fractio and again, the Movie and Anime's portrayal of the characters supports them being physically Equal. The Margine of Strength Naruto has above Sasuke is very small. Negligible in fact.

4.)Idgaf about Base Momoshiki my dude. Only mentioned him once, and even then, saying he's not 5-B for casual feats is asinine. For starts, Base Naruto is 5-B physically, proven above.

Second, throughout chapter 5 of Boruto, we see Naruto, enhanced by Sasuke's Chakra physically straining against Momoshiki's Ninjutsu. And in chapter 6, despite Naruto being Stated to be able to Easily Obliterate Momoshiki's strongest attack with his own Ninjutsu, it still harms Naruto physically. As I have stated before and proven in the Manga since chapter 1 of Naruto, a users Ninjutsu AP > their Physical AP.

  • Base Momoshiki Physical AP/Durability is whatever, idc, his Jutsu AP > SPSM Chakra Mode Naruto Physical Durability (Facts).
  • Naruto's Ninjutsu AP in General (Base and SPSM Chakra Mode) > Momoshiki's Ninjutsu AP and Physical Durability.
  • Fused Momoshiki's Ninjutsu AP > Naruto's Physical Stats. Fused Momoshiki's Physical Stats ~ Naruto's Physical Stats
  • PS Kyuubi > Fused Momoshiki's Ninjutsu AP / Durability
This is because Base Naruto and His SPSM Chakra Mode both have Hagoromo's 50% Chakra. The Chakra Mode just adds Kurama's Chakra ontop of that, which is negligible and only serves to amplify his speed. This is why Momoshiki was such a hindrance. It's PIS that Naruto didn't Finish him with his Chakra Punch like Toneri. Even without Nature Energy added, his chakra was enough to oneshot him already and Sasuke was strong enough to Oneshot both Kinshiki and Momoshiki tbf as he akso has 50% Hagoromo's Chakra.

The entire fight was PIS, but Momoshiki isn't 7-A. You can keep claiming that all you want. His travel speed is no indication of power, so it's stupid to bring it up in the first place, Naruto characters without Cloaks are susceptible to Cutting / Piercing attacks, so him blocking attacks that do that is backed by precedence, taking out the Kages is a casual showing of power. By no means his cap physically. He's already hurt Sasuke and Naruto Physically. Portrayed in both movie and anime to be physically comparable.

Like what more do you want? To be spoon fed like a ******* baby?

On top of that, Striking Scales from Durability, not the other way around. Saying anything otherwise unless a verse has specifically shown otherwise is asinine and idiotic. Just like IRL, your Striking is at least comparable to your durability. Striking can exceed durability, it's just you can't scale durability from striking. The entire point of Taijutsu is to physically harm your opponent. Even in IRL, Boxing, Jujitsu, MMA, etc. Denying this is a essentially denying reality itself. How about you prove Taijutsu isn't meant for Ninja to physically harm one another? Infact, bring several instances of Striking not scaling from durability in Naruto.

5.)Finally, the scaling:

  • SPSM Chakra Mode Naruto scales to 5-B physically for his own feats
  • Sasuke Scales to 5-B physically for tanking Limbos attacks and Kaguya's toss.
  • Base Naruto Scales From Sasuke
  • Fused Momoshiki scales from SPSM Chakra Mode Naruto
So no, it's not "Circular", you only claim that when you ask for direct striking feats and we provide.

  • Base Naruto matched Sasuke
  • Sasuke has 5-B Durability feats
  • Momoshiki Could hurt Sasuke Physically
  • Base Naruto could Keep up with Momoshiki for awhile
And again, the portrayal of the characters in the Anime and Movie supports me. You are only working under assumptions....

Link to One of My Previous Posts you ignored: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2286211#85
 
Wow....that's a very long text right there....

Anyways! Base Naruto tanked a 6B explosion so how in the world are we still talking about this 7A nonsense crap? it's like people wanna ignore the obvious things that went during the anime and how that the arc was fully of WIS

@TFO

also....CALM YOUSELF I can understand frustration but there is no need to be acting like this.

@Everyone

THIS HAS GONE LONG ENOUGH! we been at this now for over a week so stop with this going back and forth and let's just concluded this damn thing!
 
BlackeJan said:
Agreed: Astral, Nedge1000, M3x, Shadow, Mindovin (5)

Neutral: AppleLord, Pachi2, The Causality (3)

Disagreed: Kep and IMade (2)
Click to expand...
This is it! if any of the neutral wanna change their minds then we can do that but if not then let's waot until the end of the day and see what we get! once that's done we conclude with what ever the Knowledgeable Members votes we have and go with it! I can now see why revision can be so tiring....u Discussion Memebers r amazing to keep this up....
 
I still wanna see what Kep has to say about 5B sword lol. Seriously we can upgrade them with just a sword maybe that's the direction we should have went in the first place
 
Uh no said he was throwing that out their as a possibility. No where did he say he was joking
00704E28-1A0B-49D1-AF88-FA1508DF2538
That was this thread where he said it's possible. He didn't say it was a joke
 
AstralKing7 said:
I still wanna see what Kep has to say about 5B sword lol. Seriously we can upgrade them with just a sword maybe that's the direction we should have went in the first place
Click to expand...
The sword piercing Madara and Naruto is an outlier. Same sword, enhanced by Sasuke's chakra can't even cut through Raikage's V1 Chakra Cloak.
 
Sasuke has a new sword. I'm not talking about shippuden Sasuke but Sasuke from Boruto. His sword has constant 5B feats like cutting through Momoshikis jutsu, stabbing Naruto, and making Momoshiki bleed
 
A random sword with no information on it being 5-B is illogical, what materials could they possibly have to make a planetary sword?

This would be more believable if it was a chakra sword.
 
So what are we gonna do. I'm still tryna figure out why it's okay to say Sasuke isn't 5B physically when he swings the sword to cut through Momoshikis wood dragons, and making Momoshiki bleed from kicking it. It makes way more sense that the user is what makes the sword strong than just tryna say the sword is stronger than the user. I always agreed with that in the first place.
 
I don't think we can treat Sasuke's sword as 5-B, actually. It has numerous upon numerous feats of not even slicing through 7-As or being blocked by them.

So far I agree with IMade on everything relating to 5-B Base Naruto, I've already made all my arguments in the previous thread and this one as well.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
A random sword with no information on it being 5-B is illogical, what materials could they possibly have to make a planetary sword?
Click to expand...
Right? GG Kumo's Chakra Canon. But seriously, it's inconsistent.

  • The sword is stated to be a Sword of Kusanagi
  • Same type of swords couldn't pierce Weaker Chakra Cloaks yet suddenly pierce vastly stronger ones
But isn't it true that a weilders strength is a factor in a what sword can cut?
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
A random sword with no information on it being 5-B is illogical, what materials could they possibly have to make a planetary sword?
This would be more believable if it was a chakra sword.
Click to expand...
I agree that it makes no sense. It looks like a fallacy of Argument from belief, Denying the antecedent.
 
Kepekley23 said:
I don't think we can treat Sasuke's sword as 5-B, actually. It has numerous upon numerous feats of not even slicing through 7-As or being blocked by them.

So far I agree with IMade on everything relating to 5-B Base Naruto, I've already made all my arguments in the previous thread and this one as well.
Click to expand...
Then turn around and accept the Anime's portrayal as Supporting canon. You're playing both sides now, and IMade is still wrong.

This is why I think a mod discussion is necessary.
 
TheFinalOrder said:
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
A random sword with no information on it being 5-B is illogical, what materials could they possibly have to make a planetary sword?
Click to expand...
Right? GG Kumo's Chakra Canon. But seriously, it's inconsistent.
  • The sword is stated to be a Sword of Kusanagi
  • Same type of swords couldn't pierce Weaker Chakra Cloaks yet suddenly pierce vastly stronger ones
But isn't it true that a weilders strength is a factor in a what sword can cut?
Click to expand...
Unless it is a special sword, then a sword's Striking Strength would the user's.
 
Agreed: Astral, Nedge1000, M3x, Shadow, Mindovin (5)

Neutral: AppleLord & Pachi2 (2)

Disagreed: Kep, IMade, The Causality (3)

EDIT: I don't knwo if @Causality was being serious or not since he put a trolled Madara....

@Kep

Wait u seriously believe that 7A thing?
 
Literally never played both sides, at least not in what is relevant to this thread. I always completely agreed with Base Naruto not being 5-B, which is the whole point of the thread.
 
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